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40kenthusiast wrote:@Danny: That's a really terrible idea. The Necron round after you drive all your chimeras up to the Star God and liths and do the first half of its wounds will be carnagetastic.

Monoliths drop a large S9 AP1 blast template per turn, which isn't too terrifying. If they teleport anything through it'll get obliterated by ordnance on the following turn, thanks to the changes made to the 5th edition Necron FAQ. Veil of Darkness is equally useless for the same reason.

Furthermore, with so many points spent on so few models, there is hardly anything left in the army to fear. Warriors and Immortals are completely trivial due to the fact that they will only inflict glancing hits. The only danger a Necron army poses to mech vets is if they take destroyers en masse and maneuver to get side armor shots off on the Chimeras.

Necrons won the first Ard Boys and they can win it again. They scale up perfectly.

G

The only thing going for Necrons this year seems to be the inclusion of kill points in every single scenario so far. Problem is they still will have a hard time satisfying the primary objective without getting phased out.

dumplingman wrote:Again don't underestimate the power of mech dark eldar against mech IG. A competitive list can easily bring around 15 - 20 dark lances to the table on turn one in the 1500 point range. I think in ard boys you can get closer to 25 - 30. Even a WWP list could reign destruction against mech vets by having everything in assault range on the turn they comp in MOOTF be damned!

I'm not underestimating anything, I'm just aware that the only way the DE player has a chance is if he goes first and rolls VERY well. Rough averages: 30 Dark Lances will score 10 damaging rolls (1.6 glance, 8.4 pen). Of those 8.4 pens 3 tanks die and 3 can't shoot. The glance probably scores a can't shoot as well. You've stopped a total of 7 of the 16-20 tanks from shooting back in the following turn. That is underwhelming for an army that requires a devastating first turn of shooting to win. The matchup for DE improves at lower points because the IG player gets far less tanks and the DE player doesn't lose many Dark Lances (there should be like 22-24 in a 1750pt list). At 'Ard Boyz points though, no way.

Interesting little exercise I did by running the KP potention of my three available lists.

Example
My Mech IG 22 KP, 39 in mission 2
My Foot IG 13 KP, 25 in mission 2
My Mech Sallies 17, 29 in mission 2

and the list I dont have the bikes for.
My Sallies on Wheels 15 KP, 31 in mission 2

So yes, Foot IG seems to have a great KP advantage, however 2 of 3 scenarios are primarilly Objective scenarios with KP only used to determine the degree of victory and Foot IG is will have a much harder time holding and is VERY vulnerable to lash and Jet Council.

So do I accept that Mission Two could be very difficult depending on the matchup, and go with what I have or Go back to Sallies with a hybrid bike list.

Either way I look forward to a fun tourney and love the way the missions make me re think things.

Sallies on wheels seem to have a tremendous amount going for them, at least in round one. Extreme emphasis on KPs, definitive game length makes for easier objective snatching on turn 6, night fight in 2/3 of the scenarios--what else could you ask for?

How about an old fashioned foot based guardsmen army? With a couple of russes at the back.

it seems to me that out maneuvering a human tide isn't too easy and you might not be getting in half range with those melta guns if there's a legion of guardsmen between you and the tank. And with autocannons becoming the more popular choice in infantry squads, the only answer I can think of is 'go for objectives' which may result in pieplate ville or even.... Infantry Guard advancing.

Problems with gunline Guard haven't changed much. It's slow to play, it's terribly boring for both the IG player and their opponent, and it's wickedly vulnerable to tank shocks. Not to mention its Gazillion $$$ pricetag and the hours spent snipping and painting.

If you don't mind putting in 3 hours per game, and you think watching the gunline go to work is fun every time, you get real lucky with melta bombs, and your bank roll won't break if it gets hit by the Imperial Hammer, then have at it.

Most people I know, self included, prefer fast-play dynamic mech vets to the old fashion foot horde. The foot horde is still fine as an army, but just not most people's cup of tea.

Well, I was more referring to a Gunline facing the mech vets army.

I suppose tank shock could be the problem, surprised I forgot about it, since I used it twice tonight!

Then again, it did sweet eff all both times.

I was more thinking along the lines of 'how would I kill a mech vets army' - assuming I didnt have as bad a luck as I did tonight, the sheer number of heavy weapons that the gunline could chuck out would seem to me to give a mech vet army pause, since even if I really do have bad luck destroying things, the first rank or so of the chimeras would seem to have a fair liklihood of getting stunned.

As for money. When you collect Guard for 4 editions, the price rises dont seem to be that huge an issue since aside from the odd special weapon, my army's 'core' has been purchased, sometimes for 12 years. - My command HQ is plastic stormtroopers, my main core is Mordian Iron Guard, a commissar is armed with a hand flamer and there's a metal sentinel to boot.

I didn't realize that you were talking about a counter list.

Depending what the mech list has, you should either do okay and it'll be a game, or Eradicator cannons and fast flamers will wipe you off the table. I would say that overall gunline IG should be able to give mech IG a run for the money most of the time, though.

With all melta I'd worry about horde orks (or any other horde that gets S4 on a charge) -- not enough templates to cut them down, and they'll kill your chims.

ketsugami wrote:With all melta I'd worry about horde orks (or any other horde that gets S4 on a charge) -- not enough templates to cut them down, and they'll kill your chims.

when every one of your tanks has a heavy flamer on it and you have the best pie plate chuckers in the game I dont understand how guard doesnt have enough templates to cut down horde orks. Especially if you see smart players bringing a heavy flamer in their CCS or vet squads. I think you might even see some people bringing a single platoon with a bunch of flamers for objective camping.

Something to think about is that at 2500 points and 2.5 hours per round I bet a lot of games won't make it to the 6th round. If so you'll need to do a lot of damage early on to score a massacre.

G

i know that as a GK player, Lascannons are essential to anything, especially in the form of land raiders. i don't know if this applies for every army, but don't be afraid to run screaming away from a mechanised charge to give your long range lascannons a chance to beat the gak out of them. heroism is for idiots, anyways. XD

yea that doesn't apply to every army, it applies to the specific nature of your army (and afaik most strong GK armies prefer to be at range for at least a while). Armies that can pack devastating close range firepower for cheap are going to want to get close and use it. The composition of the army is everything in terms of how it will play and what works/doesn't work for it.

true. i was speaking from my experiences, i don't know much about playing the other races.

Danny Internets wrote:

40kenthusiast wrote:@Danny: That's a really terrible idea. The Necron round after you drive all your chimeras up to the Star God and liths and do the first half of its wounds will be carnagetastic.

Monoliths drop a large S9 AP1 blast template per turn, which isn't too terrifying. If they teleport anything through it'll get obliterated by ordnance on the following turn, thanks to the changes made to the 5th edition Necron FAQ. Veil of Darkness is equally useless for the same reason.

Furthermore, with so many points spent on so few models, there is hardly anything left in the army to fear. Warriors and Immortals are completely trivial due to the fact that they will only inflict glancing hits. The only danger a Necron army poses to mech vets is if they take destroyers en masse and maneuver to get side armor shots off on the Chimeras.

You do realize, that for every glance, the worst thing the Necrons can do, is keep you from shooting next turn right? The amount of firepower they put out is still quite high. If they go first, a lot of your Medusa/Punisher/Executioner stuff better be well hidden, or it won't get to fire.

I think to underestimate the Necrons is folly. Ask me how I know.....



Clay

Monoliths - I dont worry much about that single pie - Its the D6 str5 gauss hits vs every unit within range. Thats every chimera/infantry squad/command squad, leman russ etc. Becauses its D6 hits on BS4 with the gauss rule @ str5 ap4, you'll be loosing infantry & getting damage on vehicles when it comes in - which will happen, where-ever it goes.

Jetseer council - Closecombat; Doesnt really work - Mechvet wise, the only option will be Ogryns which need to charge & direct every single attack against the farseer, which will fail one save after everything which will cause ID @ T3 from S6. Sadly the council strikes first whom will easily kill off a few (a 5+farseer strong (i.e small) sqaud deals 5.5 wounds when being charged!) which means you need to charge with atleast 7 ogryns; which is more than a chimera can carry which then means its a pointless counter as it wouldnt work with Mechvets. Yarrick has an Okay chance to kill a farseer (dealing about 0.6 wounds @I1).. alone he can withstand about 12 witchblade direct at him which leaves him with one wound. After that, he's down. And then possibly back up again but thats not the point.

Chimera heavy flamers & multi-lasers x lots.