Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Eldanar wrote:I think some of you have missed the point of this tactic: this is to be used against pure gun-line armies which more or less have weak CC capabilities.

Please read the thread before you 'think' the wrong thing. This point has already been discussed and justified.

Uriels_Flame wrote:I thinks he probably played other mates that weekend? Anyone else play him and lose to this tactic?

If so, I would like to know where they play so I can be a Pokemaster!

He plays at my FLGS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

labmouse42 wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:Well, it's not only viable with horde armies.
I run my biker army with this tactic in mind sometimes. This is done by abusing the base dimensions.

Using layers of bikers, it gets the same result as for the orks. Cover saves for the whole army while not being IN cover..

That's quite clever Sanctjud.

I'll give it a shot this week and see how it impacts the survivability of my models from AP3- weapons.

And. . .are you talking about the voodoo formation, where one squad gives cover to another by weaving their bases?

Orkish wrote:

Eldanar wrote:I think some of you have missed the point of this tactic: this is to be used against pure gun-line armies which more or less have weak CC capabilities.

Please read the thread before you 'think' the wrong thing. This point has already been discussed and justified.

Obviously, some people don't get it, or there would not have been posts made discussing its use against terminators, marines, etc.

And judging by some of your commetns, I'm not really sure you understand the usefulness of this type of formation very well either.

Orkish wrote:
...To footslog that way towards opponent is to give opponent free rounds of shooting every turn. The situation is worsen when you have multiple of those formation. Blast templates will hit you no matter how they scatter .

We are discussing Orks, are we not? Blast templates are going to land on your models regardless of whether they are in clumps or conga lines.

Think of it this way: If you have 150 Orks separated into 5 mobs of 30, and someone shoots a bunch of template weapons at you killing 40 Orks, would you rather lose all 40 of those Orks from your two closest mobs (the ones in front and closest to the opponent), or would you rather have that spread over all 5 mobs somewhat evenly and still have 5 mobs of 20+ models, each of which has a model as close to the opponent as the prior two mobs earlier in the example?

And if you naively think that that formation can help to keep you in CC for another turn, you are again wrong. Due to the pile in rule, a minimum of 4 orks will be engaged. FYI, 4 orks on the charge is enough to win the combat against a troop of 10 IG guards, and force them to lose the combat and retreat.

You are overstating the effectiveness of the Orks in CC, and discounting the gamesmanship that can go into careful placement of models and selection of targets to assault. Particularly if the PK nob charges a tank, and then maybe the next ork does as well in order to daisy chain a secondary charge on a squad with the other two, etc. It is very easy to mitigate how much damage you do on the first round of a combat if you choose to.

And even if the mob wins by a huge margin and breaks the squad , etc., chances are there are 3-5 other conga lines doing the same thing all the way down the table. Very few gunline armies can withstand that kind of coordinated assault.

To be honest, the next time you face an IG, think again. Nothing beats reaching them in the fastest way, with the most models.

How about reaching them in the fastest way possible and then tying up whatever I reach for more than likely their turn only; instead of wiping it out on my turn, so that I am then left exposed to close range fire and/or counter assaults from my gunline opponent.

Lets see...if I have an Ork mob bundled up in a blob exactly 24" away from my opponents gunline; or if I have the tip of the conga line mob exactly 24" away from my opponents gunline, which is farther away? And the two mobs move 6" and roll exactly the same for their run/WAAGH rolls, which will get there first? It is kind of like asking which weighs more, a pound of lead or a pound of feathers...

This tactic mitigates damage from shooting, it mitigates the wipe out phenomenon, and at least for the lead Ork is no slower than running forward in a large bunch.

TheHaunted wrote:For anyone who claims that the simple answer is to assault the middle of the unit, I ask, how do you plan to get in the middle of the ork conga lines without having been assaulted already? Against one ork unit this is the answer. But you all forget that there are five more conga lines. To quote 300 "The strength of the ork is the ork at his side." And with the exception of Sly Marbro and a Calidus assassin, no unit can get to the middle of this ork army.

Not meaning to sound insulting, but you need to read up on a few more armies.

Dark Eldar wyches in a Raider have, at minimum, a 21" assault range, and a maximum of 32" assault range. Assuming a 12" deployment zone and/or use of a WWP, assaulting the middle or far end of the conga line would be relatively simple. Also, due to the spread out nature of the line, the wyches would win combat due to the limited number of return attacks and the loss of the orks' charge bonus and extra CCW against the wyches.

Other orks in wagons, especially if a Waagh! is called. This unit also has a 21-26" assault range and would probably win the assault.

Summoned lesser daemons from C:CSM.

Any fast-ish unit from the C:ImpGuard where Creed has given them the Scout (and then Outflank) ability, such as Roughriders.

I want to say there are some special characters or other rules out there that give certain units the ability to assault after deepstrike; that would work, too.

Eldanar wrote:Very few gunline armies can withstand that kind of coordinated assault.

Our Emperor's anti-fun shields cannot withstand Latin rhythms of that magnitude!

"It's a trap!!!"

Mannahnin wrote:Goodness, folks.

A lot of the judgmental remarks made in this thread are kind of stunning. Conga lines are nothing new. They have advantages and disadvantages. If you haven’t seen them before, you most likely just haven’t played in many tournaments yet. It’s no reason to be calling people names because they play in a way you haven’t seen before.

I’m very glad to have this kind of thread, and would like to see more. On-table formations are perfect fodder for the Tactics forum. Certainly more germane than the usual unit armament discussions.

This bears repeating. Conga lines are a tactic for use against a static-shooting oriented foe, among other things. It's nice to see actual tactics being discussed rather than the usual army list building that goes on in this forum.

I've played against this with KFFs, and it can be freakin' brutal. I love playing against "unconventional" tactics as it keeps things fresh for me.

I really dig this tactic, im gonna try it at my FLGS tonight if i get the oppourtunity, im kind of a noob but this seems like an effective tactic against some tau armies.

Eldanar wrote:We are discussing Orks, are we not? Blast templates are going to land on your models regardless of whether they are in clumps or conga lines.

Which is why this dumb formation has no benefit in this aspect at all.

Eldanar wrote:You are overstating the effectiveness of the Orks in CC, and discounting the gamesmanship that can go into careful placement of models and selection of targets to assault. Particularly if the PK nob charges a tank, and then maybe the next ork does as well in order to daisy chain a secondary charge on a squad with the other two, etc. It is very easy to mitigate how much damage you do on the first round of a combat if you choose to.

I am not overstating. This formation as mentioned above, is used against gunline army like IG. Due to pile in rule and unit coherency rule (2 inches betw models), the min number of boyz to engage is 4 (I hate to repeat myself for people who don't read previous post). 4 Boyz on the charge against 10 pathetic IG guards - compare their stats do your own math, or play more games

Eldanar wrote:And even if the mob wins by a huge margin and breaks the squad , etc., chances are there are 3-5 other conga lines doing the same thing all the way down the table. Very few gunline armies can withstand that kind of coordinated assault.

That may happen if you are playing a noob (sorry I don't play with noobs). An experience IG player will not open up multiple troops for you to charge at the same time. Most often, there will be at the maximum 2 troops open for you to charge. After you win the combat, chimeras (for e.g.) at the back do their free shooting for another turn. Again, play more games, especially against the experience players.

Eldanar wrote:How about reaching them in the fastest way possible

I always reach my opponent on the 2nd turn. Don't talk to me about fast unless this formation can do the same.


Alot of newbies may find success with this tactic, but I don't recommend it for more competitive level of gameplay.

I always reach my opponent on the 2nd turn. Don't talk to me about fast unless this formation can do the same.

As I'm not an experianced player, how do you always assualt on 2nd turn? i havent seen that yet.

Trukks can do that quite well. The problem is keeping them alive long enough to deliver the boyz.

Norwulf wrote:

I always reach my opponent on the 2nd turn. Don't talk to me about fast unless this formation can do the same.

As I'm not an experianced player, how do you always assualt on 2nd turn? i havent seen that yet.

There's plenty of armies that can do it. Since I didn't see his army mentioned (though his name is Orkish. . .) I would imagine he meant with orks. Let's say you're playing Pitched Battle (because it's easy in Spearhead or Dawn of War). You set up 12" off your board edge, as does your opponent (despite Yakface's recent poll). So, on a 48" board, both of your armies may very well be a mere 24" apart. Let's say Orks go turn 1. Move that mean ole Battlewagon 12" forward - surrounded no doubt by two other battlewagons, with a Big Mek safely embarked in the middle one, giving all three obscured saves. Your enemy moves also, either trying to counter your movement or brace for impact. Turn 2, you move your Orks another 12". Suddenly, you're in their front lines. You disembark out of the front of the Battlewagon (because you've left it open-topped, as it should be) and, since it is an assault vehicle, you move another 6" into assault. Hence, you've assaulted on Turn 2. Nearly always.

This is a valid and effective tactic in the right situation.

To arrogantly claim it is not and would never work on you is just childish and wrong.

Just becuase you don't understand how to effectively use the tactic does not invalidate it, it just proves that you do not have a real grasp of when/how to use it.

I have been playing a long time, and I use the conga line on gunlines when the situation is right. Nothing new, and with careful placement and precise movement, it just kills IG and Tau gunlines.

I think most people have negative remarks about it, is that it looks like a WAAC move, which is fine or bad in different environments.

There are competitive games and then there are friendly games, and everyone has different definitions of each.

The conga line is not realistic with fluff. Some people expect that in a game, others don't, it comes back to the, "what sort of game are you playing".

@puma713
I was not talking about the "voodoo" formation, whatever that may be.
Not the criss-cross whatever crazyness.

I was suggesting a sort of layering, it's basically just using
A. Terrain.
B. Units getting cover saves by being behind another unit.

Bikers abuse their dimensions and conga line behind terrain so that only 49% are seen at whatever nastiness they want cover saves from, then those that don't need to hid, deploy parrallel to the deployment line.
THen you have 51% of the next biker squad set up behind the first, and have 49" set up parrallel to the 'wing' of the first row, to extend out the 'screen'.

Basically you have the front that gets a cover save from the 50% rule, while you layer other squads behind it to get more cover saves.

This is used because getting cover saves in area terrain is a pain for bikers, literally.

If this is not to one's liking, one can simply just start in reserves and turbo on.. but when you want to start on the board it's an option to maximize durability of the bikers when they are most vulnerable.

Again, this is only based on bike hvy lists.

My 7 Cents.

Inigo Montoya wrote:
To arrogantly claim it is not and would never work on you is just childish and wrong.

LOL, maybe we are arrogant, maybe not. But at least I am confident that I have what it takes to be arrogant if I want to.

Inigo Montoya wrote:
Just becuase you don't understand how to effectively use the tactic does not invalidate it, it just proves that you do not have a real grasp of when/how to use it.

Rather than just assuming we don't understand what is going on, you shd take the effort to read what every1 has posted.

Inigo Montoya wrote:
I have been playing a long time, and I use the conga line on gunlines when the situation is right. Nothing new, and with careful placement and precise movement, it just kills IG and Tau gunlines.

Playing a long time doesnt count for anything, it's the number of games you play and watch that counts. I have had more than 300 games (well, I do play multiple games simultaneously sometimes) with my orks since 5th Ed rules came in. I have at least my gaming experience to back me up, and I don't talk c are a p.
feth

Number of games doesn't matter either if your playing the same small group over and over again. It's more like the number/type of players and armies that matters. Not the number of games themselves.

Orkish wrote:Which is why this dumb formation has no benefit in this aspect at all.

I am not overstating. This formation as mentioned above, is used against gunline army like IG. Due to pile in rule and unit coherency rule (2 inches betw models), the min number of boyz to engage is 4 (I hate to repeat myself for people who don't read previous post). 4 Boyz on the charge against 10 pathetic IG guards - compare their stats do your own math, or play more games

That may happen if you are playing a noob (sorry I don't play with noobs). An experience IG player will not open up multiple troops for you to charge at the same time. Most often, there will be at the maximum 2 troops open for you to charge. After you win the combat, chimeras (for e.g.) at the back do their free shooting for another turn. Again, play more games, especially against the experience players.


I always reach my opponent on the 2nd turn. Don't talk to me about fast unless this formation can do the same.


Alot of newbies may find success with this tactic, but I don't recommend it for more competitive level of gameplay.

I can only agree with Eldanar when you present your side of this like that.

Orkish, Let me (a player of 11 years with over 600+ games under my belt) explain some things that you might have missed.

1. Claiming that a conga line is more vulnerable to blasts is silly. A square shape is easier to hit as it doesnt matter what direction it is scattering, where as a line is harder to hit as a scatter in any direction other than along the line means you will miss more often, and even if you hit, the orks are still getting a 4+ (average) cover save with a max of 2-3 orks hit at most.

2. Assaulting 10 guardsmen with 4 orks is a good stratagy if you need to move your troops more. 4 orks might kill 4-5 guardsmen and only suffer 1-2 wounds in return, but lets look at the math.

Ork phase - move 6", run 6" (Thrakka Waaagghh) and assault 6" = 18" of movement regardless of combat resolution
Win combat = an extra d6 of movement.....Loose combat = Orks of that size are fearless
Guard phase
Orks in combat = no shooting at squad, Orks not in combat = 18" +d6" closer to your tanks than they were last turn, most probably still in cover.

So as you can see there is no down side to assaulting the guardsmen as even if they wipe out the guardsmen they are still MUCH closer to your tanks with a Nob with a PK, and shooting the squad will only be met with 4+ coversaves and wounded being pulled from the back of the unit.

3a.The Conga line is not for getting into cc with troops....its for putting a PK Nob in CC with your tanks.

3b. Maby you should play with Noobs more often, you might be surprized how often they come up with a tactic that you never would have thought of. Most of us as we get used to our armies get into bad habits and tend to become predictable. If a tactic is stupid and it works.....it wasnt stupid. There have been a few times that I thought I knew my army inside and out and then someone that had never seen my army before asked a simple question that would have me searching for my codex with an evil grin.

4. My Eldar can avoid you for 4 turns without trying, DE are even faster......dont talk to us about fast if all you have is trucks. The point of this statement is that certain tactics work against certain armies.....your trucks would never catch my Mech-Eldar....just as a Tank heavy gunline cant deal with Orks conga line-ing with cover. If the ork player was against Necrons I am sure this tactic wouldnt have been used.

5."LOL, maybe we are arrogant, maybe not. But at least I am confident that I have what it takes to be arrogant if I want to."
It doesnt take anything to be arrogant, other than being close-minded. and taking such a limited view of a tactic and not trying to find a way to use or improve on it is just a sign that you will be an easy player to beat after someone has played you once or twice.

Do some research on some of the fights between Patton and Romel in Africa.... you might be surprized at the "noobish" things they were trying, and how so many of them worked because one General didnt think the other would try something that crazy. (for special fun read about the "Ply-wood tank costumes")

Orkish wrote: I have had more than 300 games (well, I do play multiple games simultaneously sometimes) with my orks since 5th Ed rules came in. I have at least my gaming experience to back me up, and I don't talk s h i t.

Guys, clearly he has us all beat, I mean, he plays multiple games at a time. We should all just give up now.

DJ Illuminati wrote:Assaulting 10 guardsmen with 4 orks is a good stratagy if you need to move your troops more. 4 orks might kill 4-5 guardsmen and only suffer 1-2 wounds in return, but lets look at the math.

Ork phase - move 6", run 6" (Thrakka Waaagghh) and assault 6" = 18" of movement regardless of combat resolution
Win combat = an extra d6 of movement.....Loose combat = Orks of that size are fearless
Guard phase
Orks in combat = no shooting at squad, Orks not in combat = 18" +d6" closer to your tanks than they were last turn, most probably still in cover.

So as you can see there is no down side to assaulting the guardsmen as even if they wipe out the guardsmen they are still MUCH closer to your tanks with a Nob with a PK, and shooting the squad will only be met with 4+ coversaves and wounded being pulled from the back of the unit.

You don't know that flamers ignore cover, do you? Consolidating 6" don't help you to get away from the flamer templates. I m pretty sure you don't play enough against IG players, or rather the good ones.

DJ Illuminati wrote:The Conga line is not for getting into cc with troops....its for putting a PK Nob in CC with your tanks.

Doesnt matter tanks or troops, its alwaz the front line that you can engage, not much of a choice here.

DJ Illuminati wrote:Maby you should play with Noobs more often, you might be surprized how often they come up with a tactic that you never would have thought of. Most of us as we get used to our armies get into bad habits and tend to become predictable. If a tactic is stupid and it works.....it wasnt stupid. There have been a few times that I thought I knew my army inside and out and then someone that had never seen my army before asked a simple question that would have me searching for my codex with an evil grin.

I only choose the best players to play against. Well, sometimes I do play with random stranger, who claims they are experienced players with 11 yrs of exp, 600+ games clocked, but turn out to be as noob as you. In those cases, I have no choice but to finish the game. Otherwise, I make my every game count.

DJ Illuminati wrote:My Eldar can avoid you for 4 turns without trying, DE are even faster......dont talk to us about fast if all you have is trucks. The point of this statement is that certain tactics work against certain armies.....your trucks would never catch my Mech-Eldar....just as a Tank heavy gunline cant deal with Orks conga line-ing with cover. If the ork player was against Necrons I am sure this tactic wouldnt have been used.

I don't know why this point is raised, but I just assume is just another random bullsht from you.

DJ Illuminati wrote:Let me (a player of 11 years with over 600+ games under my belt)

In fact, I was quite amused that someone who claims to have that kind of 40k experience is actually commenting like a newbie one month into the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cannerus_The_Unbearable wrote:
Guys, clearly he has us all beat, I mean, he plays multiple games at a time. We should all just give up now.

Erm, I am not the only one who does that, I have seen many others do the same thing. Seriously, with all the waiting betweeen movement, shooting phases, I don't see the reason why not.

Thread temporarily closed due to multiple reports, whilst reviewing.

Other mods please leave reports up so I can reference.

EDIT: Unlocked. Private warnings have been given to the guilty. Lets all remember Rule #1: Be polite.
Thank you for your patronage.

i did try something similar to this tactic against shooty space marines. We rolled spearhead deployment and i put all my dudes in a forest in the corner, it was five trees or so spread out like the dots on the number 5 on a d6. It wasnt exactly a zigg zag "conga line", as mush as serpentineing thru trees for cover, thus getting the squad 4+ saves. I had my warboss and 10 boys running to the front lines and 10 boyz in the trees(all one mob). I tryed to conga/snake through the woods but in the end it just slowed me down. although im not naysaying this tacitc- i've only tryed it once, and not againts the best army to try it with. that was just my experiance this time.

Orkish wrote:Now this is a perfect example of talking s h i t.
You don't know that flamers ignore cover, do you? Consolidating 6" don't help you to get away from the flamer templates. I m pretty sure you don't play enough against IG players, or rather the good ones.

DJ Illuminati wrote:The Conga line is not for getting into cc with troops....its for putting a PK Nob in CC with your tanks.

Doesnt matter tanks or troops, its alwaz the front line that you can engage, not much of a choice here.

I only choose the best players to play against. Well, sometimes I do play with random stranger, who claims they are experienced players with 11 yrs of exp, 600+ games clocked, but turn out to be as noob as you. In those cases, I have no choice but to finish the game. Otherwise, I make my every game count.

DJ Illuminati wrote:Let me (a player of 11 years with over 600+ games under my belt)

In fact, I was quite amused that someone who claims to have that kind of 40k experience is actually commenting like a newbie one month into the game.

Here we go again, another little kid feels he has to be TFG to impress us......

1. Yes flamers ignore cover, however if they are in a line you are getting what, 4-5 guys per template if they are in a line......not quite enough to stop the green tide , nor is it the only squad doing this, so having a second squad shoot them after they consolidate only ensures that the second squad gets closer......I am not saying that there is no way to stop the tactic, just that it has reasonable risks.....if you cant handle losing a squad to get the rest of your army in where it needs to go then go play SMs

2. If it is a tank heavy army then I fail to see the down side of attacking tanks.....and tanks are so expensive that taking down a LR or two just made it worth the trouble of getting the squad in there.

3. You mean to say you play the best people in your area.......and that could mean anything..... my girlfriend went to a RTT at a town south of us and made 3rd place with a Witchhunter army that was just slapped together the week before......she is a good player, but not good enough to get 3rd like that, unless the other people there sucked.

4. I stated how long I have played and how many games, as that seemed to be your measure of how good a player is, I see now that you only regard people who agree with your narrow view of the game as being good players.

I am sad that you seem to have a grasp on how the game is played and yet you have trouble seeing the value or wisdom of this tactic. Just because you are one of the better players at your flgs doesnt mean that there is nothing for you to learn. Keeping your mind open to new ideas and tactics doesnt make you a Noob.......assuming you know everything does.

DJ Illuminati wrote:open to new ideas and tactics

I think the fact is you are the only one who thinks this tactic is new. Many people have tried this tactic, and the fact that it works against your friend does not neccessarily mean it will work against other more experienced players.

Theory wise, I don't even understand the soundness of your argument, so I shall not even comment.

Like what Sourclams & Mannahnin have pointed out, it's quite surprising you are commenting like this is something new.

Soundess is easy to judge.

1. Are his premises true?
2. Does his conclusion follow deductive from his premises?

If the answer to both is "yes", then the argument is sound. If the answer to either is "no", then it is unsound.

That said, I think it's important to note that tactics are contingent upon conditions. The tactic described in this thread has been noted to work under the condition of facing a static shooting force.

We've also noted that it's not new to the community at large, and that it's a bad idea under other conditions, such as facing a mobile assault force, or a mobile shooting force.

That doesn't mean it isn't new to someone (after all, it's useful to demarcate between historical creativity and personal creativity), or that reiterating it doesn't help beginners learn, or veterans brainstorm new innovations.

It's especially good in that someone is mentioning actual tactics, as opposed to doing strategy (list building), but I think that might have been mentioned already.

Nurglitch wrote:Soundess is easy to judge.

1. Are his premises true?
2. Does his conclusion follow deductive from his premises?

If the answer to both is "yes", then the argument is sound. If the answer to either is "no", then it is unsound.

hmm ok, thank you. In that case, I conclude that it is unsound.

Btw, if I had not misread, the discussion HAS ALWAYS been on playing against static gunline

Davicus:

So which is it? Are his premises untrue? If so, which ones? It only takes one. How does his conclusion not follow from his premises?

Also, someone earlier mentioned trying this tactic against a Terminator heavy force and getting pounded for it, I believe.

Davicus wrote:

DJ Illuminati wrote:open to new ideas and tactics

I think the fact is you are the only one who thinks this tactic is new. Many people have tried this tactic, and the fact that it works against your friend does not neccessarily mean it will work against other more experienced players.

Theory wise, I don't even understand the soundness of your argument, so I shall not even comment.

Like what Sourclams & Mannahnin have pointed out, it's quite surprising you are commenting like this is something new.

I am amazed at how you guys can read a sentence out of context and so blindly miss the point of what is being said.

I never said that this tactic has never been used, and I never said it is unstoppable. I am making comment at the fact that so many people are willing to ignore this tactic and claim it as a "noob" tactic instead of trying to adapt it and make it better. If we are to rid ourselves of old tactics completely then lets get rid of Rhino rushes and gunlines, both of which are old 3rd edition moves.....or do people still use them.

You were most correct when you said that you "dont understand".........so take a second to step back and see the point I am making and not try to nit-pick words and assume that I am awestruck and blown away by this tactic......just that I have a healthy respect for someone that is willing to use old/noobish tactics and make them work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nurglitch wrote:Davicus:

So which is it? Are his premises untrue? If so, which ones? It only takes one. How does his conclusion not follow from his premises?

Also, someone earlier mentioned trying this tactic against a Terminator heavy force and getting pounded for it, I believe.

It may be a lost cause trying to talk sense to Davicus......take note that he and Orkish are from the same place and both started within 2 days of each other......they are either friends in RL or both are the same kid using a second account to make his first one sound respected by agreeing with himself......

I find it hard to believe that TWO Ork players would be so unable to see the value of the Conga Ork Line.

If it worked against the player in question clearly it was a good tactic at the time, any other judgment introduces too many variables to give any credence to.

Jack

Jackmojo wrote:If it worked against the player in question clearly it was a good tactic at the time, any other judgment introduces too many variables to give any credence to.
Jack

So I see, if this tactic works against a newbie, it is a good tactic?

The fact that this tactic have had its success against some IG static gunline players does not mean anything. You might not even be playing against the right person. Winning or bullying a newbie means nothing to me. I have had success and failure with this tactic, and the determining factor was my opponent. I would not consider a tactic as a good one if it cannot work on a more competitive player.

As for Illuminati, I see your last post as a joke (on yourself) rather than a platform for discussion.