Do you play you ork the way this guy is, zigzagged around some terrain giving the unit a cover save

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**joaardvark**

Okay, I am the ork player in the blue shirt.

This "snake" formation is used when I face a gun line that has little or no hand to hand capability (typically tau or imperial guard). Specifically, when facing guard, the only models that are effective are the nobs with PK, and the boyz with rocket launchas (if the guard player has a lot of LR tanks, with the 11 back armour, then most of the boyz are totally ineffective).

This formation is used to accomplish the following:

1. The line provides the minimum exposure to blast/ordnance/templates.
2. The line allows the ork unit to move towards the objective without entering difficult terrain, thereby getting to the opponent as fast as possible.
3. The line allows the nob to be the spearhead of the unit, thus getting his PK into combat against tanks as soon as possible.
4. The line allows the ork unit to control multiple objectives, quardrants, etc. as the formation covers a lot of ground (if necessary).
5. The line allows the ork unit to engage weak enemy units in hth, not win the combat on the charge, and hopefully stay in hth (thus avoiding being shot in the opponent's turn.
Typically, after each side consolidates 6 inches, the orks will win the hth handily in the opponent's turn, thus freeing me up to move during my next turn.
6. The line somtimes gives the unit cover as it does snake around terrain features.
7. The line is fast to move in a tournament setting where time is limited.

This formation has many weaknesses, as have been fairly discussed above.

I have played against the new guard codex on many occasions and my local guard opponent has proven to me that I can't run my ork mobs in large blobs as the combination of blast/ordnance/template weapons can wipe me out without any great effort. Therefore, I developed this formation in an effort to minimize the amount of damage that I take each round of shooting, and to improve my chances of getting across the board where my Nobz can do some damage to the tanks.

In order to be successful I believe that both army selection and game play are important (trumped only by Luck!). I believe this formation is a good tactic for orks (against guard gun lines) and there was no intent to abuse the rules or to be unfair to my opponent.

**JD21290**

Smart tactic, but it has its drawbacks like all ideas

1: Assault the middle, leaving models too far away.

2: Pavane / lash the unit together then plate it.

3: daemons players or other assault orientated armies wont give a feth, and just assault with a nice bonus.

**TheHaunted**

I know the ork player, he is one of the peole who play at my LGS, and he is no idiot. This tactic is clearly highly effective against gaurd players like the opponent he is playing. His lines allow him to neutralize every blast or template weapon the gaurd has, while spreading out enough to be able to catch him in a corner. And I would go on and inform everyone of its other purposes but the inventor has posted it already. Therefore, I shall address the clearly flawed logic of all nay-sayers who feel it necessary to flout their ignorance.
FOr anyone who has said the use of flamer templates is the key to unravelling this formation, I ask, have you measured a flame template recently? It's eight inches. And as this player is a highly intellegent and is always going to be spread out the maximum two inches. and with the given that a Citadel gaming base is one inch, this means that an eight inch templat can get a maximum of four models if he mis-deployed his models. The alternative is a tightly packed ball of orks that most playes use where the template gets twelve models. While the conga line does not eliminate the threat of templates, it is clearly the best alternative.
For anyone who claims that the simple answer is to assault the middle of the unit, I ask, how do you plan to get in the middle of the ork conga lines without having been assaulted already? Against one ork unit this is the answer. But you all forget that there are five more conga lines. To quote 300 "The strength of the ork is the ork at his side." And with the exception of Sly Marbro and a Calidus assassin, no unit can get to the middle of this ork army.
For anyone who suggested Sentinels assaulting the back of the unit, I ask how does this stop all of the army? I agree that this is a fantastically brilliant idea for stopping the one unit on the side, however it will not work if the ork player has anything kept back, or if he has multiple units, this will not be a huge impact. An ork player can give up a unit or two and not blink an eye.
For anyone who claims that their army has the perfect answer for this tactic and will dominate it if they ever see it, I ask, do you really think he uses this tactic in every game? An army that cant adapt is as useless as the person who designed it. CLearly an intellegent player changes tactics with every new oppenent, and i assure you, byt the Primarchs of old, this particular ork player is the definition of intellegence.
For anyone who has called this a cheesy move or a cheat or even bending the rules, I ask have you played in a tournament? In a tournament, people are there to play and play hard, and hopefully at the end of the day take home an award for being better at toy soldiers than the other grown men. And you do this however you can. If it's in the rules, do it. And if thats hard to swallow for anyone, DELETED BY THE MODQUISITION. This isnt a dick move, it's a smart one. And I know the two are hard to tell apart for most people but hey, if you're in the losers bracket it doesn't matter what the winners are doing does it?

**deffskullz**

the only time ive seen this used was when a guy used a bunch of gaunts to hold like 2 objectives at once and that was for a whole different story

**Grunt_For_Christ**

As a bug player I don't conga line, but I do rely on cover. Mainly because I have to if I want to stand a chance. As I've found it really does leave you vulnerable to all sorts of things, especially jump troop assaults which can drag the entire line back away from the intended target.

**brainscan**

an interesting tactic. i can only imagine the whining if i tried this on a club night!

**Sanctjud**

Well, it's not only viable with horde armies.
I run my biker army with this tactic in mind sometimes. This is done by abusing the base dimensions.

Using layers of bikers, it gets the same result as for the orks. Cover saves for the whole army while not being IN cover.

My 7 Cents.

**Sliggoth**

Would certainly be one good reason to always take a hellhound when playing as IG. Just the threat of tank shocking/ parking in the middle of the line would ruin the ork party.

Sliggoth

**whitedragon**

joaardvark wrote:I have played against the new guard codex on many occasions and my local guard opponent has proven to me that I can't run my ork mobs in large blobs as the combination of blast/ordnance/template weapons can wipe me out without any great effort. Therefore, I developed this formation in an effort to minimize the amount of damage that I take each round of shooting, and to improve my chances of getting across the board where my Nobz can do some damage to the tanks.

In order to be successful I believe that both army selection and game play are important (trumped only by Luck!). I believe this formation is a good tactic for orks (against guard gun lines) and there was no intent to abuse the rules or to be unfair to my opponent.

TheHaunted wrote:I know the ork player, he is one of the peole who play at my LGS, and he is no idiot. This tactic is clearly highly effective against gaurd players like the opponent he is playing. His lines allow him to neutralize every blast or template weapon the gaurd has, while spreading out enough to be able to catch him in a corner. And I would go on and inform everyone of its other purposes but the inventor has posted it already. Therefore, I shall address the clearly flawed logic of all nay-sayers who feel it necessary to flout their ignorance.

LoLz at people jumping out of the woodwork?

Obviously this "tactic" is of moderate value in certain situations, but it has it's foil as many posters in this thread have pointed out. No one is questioning the "legality" per se, but in reality, a majority of players would raise an eyebrow at this unorthodox method of movement. Depending on the density of terrain on the board, this could prove counterproductive, and may also run into problems with assault and moving through difficult terrain. (Check the YMDC thread!)

As far as maximizing cover saves, a far easier way to maximize the benefit of multiple cover saves seems to be running a big mek with KFF in a vehicle of some sort to extend his range, or just run da boyz behind the other boyz.

Even with the extra cover provided from such a conga line, a shooty mechanized guard army will have enough fire power and tank hulls to tank shock you and bunch you up (and out of cover) enough to shoot the crap out of you. As soon as your opponent Mech's up, the viability of this tactic will cease to be as useful. The same goes for an instance where your opponent starts including counter assault units like Ogryn, Straken, Rough Riders, or even Grey Knights.

So, anyway, it's an interesting evolution resulting from a local metagame, but nothing more.

**Battle Brother Loken**

TheHaunted wrote:I know the ork player, he is one of the peole who play at my LGS, and he is no idiot. This tactic is clearly highly effective against gaurd players like the opponent he is playing. His lines allow him to neutralize every blast or template weapon the gaurd has, while spreading out enough to be able to catch him in a corner. And I would go on and inform everyone of its other purposes but the inventor has posted it already. Therefore, I shall address the clearly flawed logic of all nay-sayers who feel it necessary to flout their ignorance.
FOr anyone who has said the use of flamer templates is the key to unravelling this formation, I ask, have you measured a flame template recently? It's eight inches. And as this player is a highly intellegent and is always going to be spread out the maximum two inches. and with the given that a Citadel gaming base is one inch, this means that an eight inch templat can get a maximum of four models if he mis-deployed his models. The alternative is a tightly packed ball of orks that most playes use where the template gets twelve models. While the conga line does not eliminate the threat of templates, it is clearly the best alternative.
For anyone who claims that the simple answer is to assault the middle of the unit, I ask, how do you plan to get in the middle of the ork conga lines without having been assaulted already? Against one ork unit this is the answer. But you all forget that there are five more conga lines. To quote 300 "The strength of the ork is the ork at his side." And with the exception of Sly Marbro and a Calidus assassin, no unit can get to the middle of this ork army.
For anyone who suggested Sentinels assaulting the back of the unit, I ask how does this stop all of the army? I agree that this is a fantastically brilliant idea for stopping the one unit on the side, however it will not work if the ork player has anything kept back, or if he has multiple units, this will not be a huge impact. An ork player can give up a unit or two and not blink an eye.
For anyone who claims that their army has the perfect answer for this tactic and will dominate it if they ever see it, I ask, do you really think he uses this tactic in every game? An army that cant adapt is as useless as the person who designed it. CLearly an intellegent player changes tactics with every new oppenent, and i assure you, byt the Primarchs of old, this particular ork player is the definition of intellegence.
For anyone who has called this a cheesy move or a cheat or even bending the rules, I ask have you played in a tournament? In a tournament, people are there to play and play hard, and hopefully at the end of the day take home an award for being better at toy soldiers than the other grown men. And you do this however you can. If it's in the rules, do it. And if thats hard to swallow for anyone, you probably shouldnt take your rainbow flag to tournaments anymore. This isnt a dick move, it's a smart one. And I know the two are hard to tell apart for most people but hey, if you're in the losers bracket it doesn't matter what the winners are doing does it?

I get such a kick that this is his only post

(has strange feeling this is the ork player defending his actions even though they are legal and he has no reson to unless he thinks they are unfair also)
Still its easy to deal with if you just get some khorne bezerkers or assault marines

**Orkish**

Battle Brother Loken wrote:I get such a kick that this is his only post (has strange feeling this is the ork player defending his actions even though they are legal and he has no reson to unless he thinks they are unfair also)
Still its easy to deal with if you just get some khorne bezerkers or assault marines

LOL, I second that. Anyway, contrary to what he/they think(s) is true, this tactic DEFINITELY doesnt work against IG gunline better than any other ork style of playing. To footslog that way towards opponent is to give opponent free rounds of shooting every turn. The situation is worsen when you have multiple of those formation. Blast templates will hit you no matter how they scatter

.
And if you naively think that that formation can help to keep you in CC for another turn, you are again wrong. Due to the pile in rule, a minimum of 4 orks will be engaged. FYI, 4 orks on the charge is enough to win the combat against a troop of 10 IG guards, and force them to lose the combat and retreat.

To be honest, the next time you face an IG, think again. Nothing beats reaching them in the fastest way, with the most models.

**Zid**

I loled at this post.

Pretty amusing. But As others pointed out, other than making them harder to blast templates, the drawbacks outweigh the positives.

**alsycho**

May not be perfect but that is why he evolves and is consistantly a top 10-15% GW tournament player.

**Orkish**

alsycho wrote:May not be perfect but that is why he evolves and is consistantly a top 10-15% GW tournament player.

Then I think he needs to evolve faster

**Jimmy82**

Dakkadakkadakka, it for situations like this that my LRBTs have 3 heavy bolters instead of hull mounted lascannons. It's interesting to see this tactic, I don't think I've ever seen it before. The way people are reacting to it makes me think back to the old 3rd Ed Rhino Rush. (I miss doing that) It's fun to see new and controversial stuff (new to me at least) don't get to heated about it all, it is after all a game.

**labmouse42**

Sanctjud wrote:Well, it's not only viable with horde armies.
I run my biker army with this tactic in mind sometimes. This is done by abusing the base dimensions.

Using layers of bikers, it gets the same result as for the orks. Cover saves for the whole army while not being IN cover..

That's quite clever Sanctjud.

I'll give it a shot this week and see how it impacts the survivability of my models from AP3- weapons.

**Iboshi2**

As has been said many times previously, there are an equal ratio of drawbacks and benefits. I would not be at all bothered by this in game, and have even been guilty of a conga line once, with a brood of 32 spingaunts holding 2 objectives at once. Good move in the right situation.

**st-rman**

joaardvark wrote:Okay, I am the ork player in the blue shirt.

This "snake" formation is used when I face a gun line that has little or no hand to hand capability (typically tau or imperial guard). Specifically, when facing guard, the only models that are effective are the nobs with PK, and the boyz with rocket launchas (if the guard player has a lot of LR tanks, with the 11 back armour, then most of the boyz are totally ineffective).

This formation is used to accomplish the following:

1. The line provides the minimum exposure to blast/ordnance/templates.
2. The line allows the ork unit to move towards the objective without entering difficult terrain, thereby getting to the opponent as fast as possible.
3. The line allows the nob to be the spearhead of the unit, thus getting his PK into combat against tanks as soon as possible.
4. The line allows the ork unit to control multiple objectives, quardrants, etc. as the formation covers a lot of ground (if necessary).
5. The line allows the ork unit to engage weak enemy units in hth, not win the combat on the charge, and hopefully stay in hth (thus avoiding being shot in the opponent's turn.
Typically, after each side consolidates 6 inches, the orks will win the hth handily in the opponent's turn, thus freeing me up to move during my next turn.
6. The line somtimes gives the unit cover as it does snake around terrain features.
7. The line is fast to move in a tournament setting where time is limited.

This formation has many weaknesses, as have been fairly discussed above.

I have played against the new guard codex on many occasions and my local guard opponent has proven to me that I can't run my ork mobs in large blobs as the combination of blast/ordnance/template weapons can wipe me out without any great effort. Therefore, I developed this formation in an effort to minimize the amount of damage that I take each round of shooting, and to improve my chances of getting across the board where my Nobz can do some damage to the tanks.

In order to be successful I believe that both army selection and game play are important (trumped only by Luck!). I believe this formation is a good tactic for orks (against guard gun lines) and there was no intent to abuse the rules or to be unfair to my opponent.

maximum respect for this .
I like this a lot, as it plays to your strengths and exploits his weakness's

**Davicus**

st-rman wrote: it plays to your strengths and exploits his weakness's

You don't know what you are talking about, do you?

(1) He meant providing MAXIMUM exposure.
(2) W/o entering difficulting terrain, but making detours, which makes it even slower.
(3) Any kind of formation can allow the Nob to be the spearhead of the unit.
(4) "covers alot of ground, if necessary" - also means (1) IF necessary.
(5) Others have already explain why this will not happen.
(6) This is the ONLY main benefit of the formation, but nevertheless makes you exposed longer to fire, albeit in cover.
(7) Sorry, but I don't even consider this a valid point.

**st-rman**

Davicus wrote:
st-rman wrote: it plays to your strengths and exploits his weakness's

You don't know what you are talking about, do you?

(1) He meant providing MAXIMUM exposure.
(2) W/o entering difficulting terrain, but making detours, which makes it even slower.
(3) Any kind of formation can allow the Nob to be the spearhead of the unit.
(4) "covers alot of ground, if necessary" - also means (1) IF necessary.
(5) Others have already explain why this will not happen.
(6) This is the ONLY main benefit of the formation, but nevertheless makes you exposed longer to fire, albeit in cover.
(7) Sorry, but I don't even consider this a valid point.

Those army's on that day with that terrain you can see the pictures, tell us how you would have done it.

**whitedragon**

st-rman wrote:Those army's on that day with that terrain you can see the pictures, tell us how you would have done it.

As others have pointed out, it would have been faster for the ork player to just run his squads normally and rushed forward. The "snaking" to avoid difficult terrain would have been problematic when actually assaulting, as most times you would be forced to take a difficult terrain check to get all models in BTB. Also, you don't get the full weight of your squad to bear in CC, which is where their strength lies.

The squads behind the first squad would have gotten a 4+ cover save anyway, and the ork army should have been running a KFF, or could have screened with trukks and Kanz.

The fact that this "tactic" may have worked in spite of itself still doesn't make it a viable strategy.

**sourclams**

I am, quite simply, amazed at the number of people who are acting like this is new, novel, or even all that effective.

**anticitizen013**

sourclams wrote:I am, quite simply, amazed at the number of people who are acting like this is new, novel, or even all that effective.

This.

I'll bring some real life stuff into this as this is the tactics section and not the rules. When troops are in a line like that and the point of fire is coming from (in this case) the front, its called being in enfilade (or enfiladed fire). Think of back in the days where you'd have 2 blocks of opposing infantry and they would stand there shooting at each other with their incredibly inaccurate muskets and whatnot. Now think of a cannonball going straight through their ranks and killing an entire line of them. Now think of something like a Lascannon beam tearing through several orks at once. Yummy!

As I like to play this game for fun, fluff is also pretty important for the people I play with. Congo line of Orks? Yeah ok... no.

I know someone will say "butt itz a turnament lololo" and to that I say... VINDICARE/TELION! Ok maybe not on a regular basis, haha. But in the end I will quote this which definitely hits the nail on the head:

Davicus wrote:(1) He meant providing MAXIMUM exposure.
(2) W/o entering difficulting terrain, but making detours, which makes it even slower.
(3) Any kind of formation can allow the Nob to be the spearhead of the unit.
(4) "covers alot of ground, if necessary" - also means (1) IF necessary.
(5) Others have already explain why this will not happen.
(6) This is the ONLY main benefit of the formation, but nevertheless makes you exposed longer to fire, albeit in cover.
(7) Sorry, but I don't even consider this a valid point.

Also what most other people have said as well...

This "tactic" was used against me when I played a combat patrol game a while ago. I lost because he took ONLY Ork boyz (there were like 60 of them or something) vs my small amount of Emperors Children. In any case, he rarely got a cover save, it took him much longer to weave through the terrain features, and it was pretty lame to play against since it was literally impossible for me to win (unless I rolled all 6s and he rolled all 1s... which didn't happen, sadly

).

**JourneyPsycheOut**

The major problem with this tactic as it takes away the threat of the multi-charge. When an ork unit assaults one unit or tank, its not that big of a deal to lose just one thing. When they can spread and assault a few tanks or units at once, it can be devestating. As an IG player, the easiest method of countering this would be to throw sacrificial units at him to slow him down. It also allows a player to attempt to escape an ork unit by moving laterally away from it. It would be much more difficult to do so against a blob squad.

**glory**

anticitizen013 wrote:
sourclams wrote:I am, quite simply, amazed at the number of people who are acting like this is new, novel, or even all that effective.

This.

I'll bring some real life stuff into this as this is the tactics section and not the rules. When troops are in a line like that and the point of fire is coming from (in this case) the front, its called being in enfilade (or enfiladed fire). Think of back in the days where you'd have 2 blocks of opposing infantry and they would stand there shooting at each other with their incredibly inaccurate muskets and whatnot. Now think of a cannonball going straight through their ranks and killing an entire line of them. Now think of something like a Lascannon beam tearing through several orks at once. Yummy!

As I like to play this game for fun, fluff is also pretty important for the people I play with. Congo line of Orks? Yeah ok... no.

Just as an interesting side note, this whole concept of deep columns of assaulting infantry was actually tried out and used successfully during the American Civil War by the Northern troops at one of the battles on the western front (Vicksburg, I think, but one of the western battles certainly). The idea was to counteract the effects of increasingly accurate musket fire from entrenched defenders by rapidly advancing across the field in a narrow and deep column of troops, rather than a line. On reaching the defenders the attack overwhelmed the defensive line at the point of contact, and past the defensive barricades the column would revert to a more normal line formation.

On a more on topic note, I'd hate to see this tactic used against me (since I play Guard), but at least having seen it described I can try to work out some counter-plans for it.

**Toxxic**

I played him at the last Atlanta Gamesday, and he was most certainly not a dick. He is also a really good player and has placed very high at GTs with the 3rd edition codex.

**Mannahnin**

Goodness, folks.

A lot of the judgmental remarks made in this thread are kind of stunning. Conga lines are nothing new. They have advantages and disadvantages. If you haven’t seen them before, you most likely just haven’t played in many tournaments yet. It’s no reason to be calling people names because they play in a way you haven’t seen before.

I’m very glad to have this kind of thread, and would like to see more. On-table formations are perfect fodder for the Tactics forum. Certainly more germane than the usual unit armament discussions.

**starbomber109**

Ok guys, I just tried this. I will admit, it kept my boyz alive as they slogged down the board....but I was charging them into terminators to try and tarpit them, and the Nob was not close enough to get into the fight, and he didn't throw any Pfist attacks, so I lost combat, and took fearless wounds, and next round I was completely wiped out (this could also be that my friends terminators have insane luck, and I always seem to epic-fail to hit with my nob's fist, but anyways)

If I do this again, I'm putting the nob closer to the front....but I probably won't do it again (especially since I happen to like KoS ork lists over horde)

Edit: As to hisorically, Napoleon used to use lines as shock troops to beat the rifle broadsides of the british. The idea being that the british gunline could only kill the first man, everyone behind that man would then run in and stab everyone with bayonets AND cut the gunline in half. The long thin lines however were vulnerable to cavalry charges, a unit under a cavalry charge then would 'box up' so they couldn't be overrun by the horses, force the riders to ride around the square, where they could be short...but a packed square is vulnerable to artiliery shells, ect. (formations were key back in the time of single shot muskets)

**Orkish**

Mannahnin wrote:Goodness, folks.

A lot of the judgmental remarks made in this thread are kind of stunning. Conga lines are nothing new.

Your comments are more stunning. No one says they are new

starbomber109 wrote:Ok guys, I just tried this. I will admit, it kept my boyz alive as they slogged down the board....but I was charging them into terminators

Boy, you didnt read the thread thoroughly, did you? You are against terminators and you did this?

**Eldanar**

I think some of you have missed the point of this tactic: this is to be used against pure gun-line armies which more or less have weak CC capabilities. Any army that can outfight Orks in CC, and there are several now, will hand an Ork player their backside on a platter if they try this.

As for the player's bona fides, IIRC, he has won 4-5 GT Overall's and/or Best Generals over the last 5 years or so, and almost always places in the top 10 when he goes to them. All with Orks.

People always want to know how the top players do it, and now you know a viable and effective Ork horde tactic versus gun-line armies.