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I can't believe no one has mentioned Skulltaker yet. With a chariot, he's WS7, BS3, S5, T5, W3, I5, A5, Ld10, 3+/5+. Eternal Warrior, Furious Charge, never wounds on less than a 4, and instant kills anything without an inv. save. And has a 2+ vs. psychic powers to boot.

How comes Zogwort made the list, but No Ghazkhull? Perhaps the killiest, stompiest power-klaw wielding mentalist there is. He makes these guys look like babies hur hur!

I agree with Seanron on Ghazzy. Also, the Skulltaker is an absolute beast, as he is the only reliable way to strike down an Avatar in a duel.

An IG Penal squad knife fighter!



They are hardcore.

He'll cut'chu, mang.

The archon on RJB gives Abaddon a run for his money.

Nachturnus wrote:

Fafnir wrote:GK Grand Master, simply because so long as he can get one wound in, he can take out any character, no matter who, no matter what(barring a botched psychic test at Ld 10). And with the right equipment, he can even force a draw with Abaddon.

Kharn would brutalize a GK GM. He's immune to psychic powers, and hits like a freaking train wreck about a billion times. Even with the invul save, Kharn killz joo .

Force weapons aren't psychic powers. You just need to take a psychic test to use them. Even if Kharn gets the charge, with the right equipment, the GM can strike at least the same time(sacred incense lowers the I of all chaos models by -1), and all it takes is a single unsaved wound. In all likelihood, the GM would force a draw in single combat. If he gets himself a retinue, it's a clearcut victory, as the terminators can act as ablative wounds.

I personally think that a broodlord with all the accutraments and implant attack is absolutly devastating. WS7 S6 I7 with power weapon hits that do 2 wounds per unsaved wound? that means that he essentially needs 2 unsaved on any character and they are dead before striking back...

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Are we doing this based on ability to massacre infantry/tanks or who would win in a fight against each other.

Because Canis is awesome if you get him surrounded but he's only str 5 and so rubbish if a walker gets into the equation and he lacks an invulnerable so any of the other uber IC's on this list will have him for breakfast.

Ghazkull is nasty but again while he murderises troops he's in trouble against any of the killers we've thrown up so far. On the turn he waaaghs he gets a 2+ invulnerable and he's the only character other than my wolf lord with a T5 so if he waaaaghs then he's in the running, particularly with a str10 PK, but if he doesn't waaagh he's in a lot of trouble vs my wolf lord, logan, calgar, abaddon, the archon and especially a GK grandmaster (1 failed save and poof, there goes gazzy).

Abaddon's T5...
And to the guy who just said that Kharn will still take the stick from the nfw, it states in Blessing Of the Blood God that he'll treat a fw as pw.

Really? My computer's kind of fried (I'll see if I can fix it on Friday), and I don't actually play Chaos, so I can't really confirm it. Sorry about that.

Although a combat between the two would be interesting. Although with a retinue, there's no way Kharn would live.

Redbeard wrote:I can't believe no one has mentioned Skulltaker yet. With a chariot, he's WS7, BS3, S5, T5, W3, I5, A5, Ld10, 3+/5+. Eternal Warrior, Furious Charge, never wounds on less than a 4, and instant kills anything without an inv. save. And has a 2+ vs. psychic powers to boot.

Yeah so upon closer inspection... this character is freakin amazing. Anything that doesn't either have an Inv save (or Eternal Warrior) is pretty much dead on a 4+ to wound. Very powerful indeed!
Also, 4 wounds if he's got a chariot, 3 on a Juggernaut. Either way... this character is amazing *ponders doing a Daemon army*

The Nightbringer
WS6 BS4 S10 T8 W5 I4 A5 LD10 Sv4+

Abaddon

Pfffft.

Everyone knows Grimgor's Da Best.

WS7 S7 A7 Always Strikes First...

Oh wait...

gameandwatch wrote:I personally think that a broodlord with all the accutraments and implant attack is absolutly devastating. WS7 S6 I7 with power weapon hits that do 2 wounds per unsaved wound? that means that he essentially needs 2 unsaved on any character and they are dead before striking back...

Don't forget that the broodlord has 4 base attacks and 5 on the charge... and they are additionally rending attacks for vehicle killing.

I once saw Abby charge and take out 8 nob bikers in one round. Tell me any other character capable of even doing this.

As stated above, a broodlord with implant attack could. 2 wounds per attack + 5 attacks on the charge = dead nobs.

Thats 5 dead nobs, assuming he hits and wounds with all of them. This abby didnt hit or wound with all, just most.

One Grot.

What about the hive tyrant? He can get implant attack as well, and he's like WS 6 or can be anyways.

The Avatar is fairly nasty too, isn't he WS10 or something else mean?

But my vote must go to Ghazghkull Thraka. For one turn he will destroy anything, S10 power fist, +2 invulnerable, fleet, fearless. Even after that turn, he's 4+ invulnerable, still LD10, and he gets extra attacks in close combat. I can't believe no one seems to have mentioned him yet. Edit: As to who can kill more nob bikers, Ghaz can kill 7 nob bikers outright, it's possible, and he kills them outright, whereas they can't do that to him because he won't instantly die and has 4 wounds. Edit2: Although, man to ork, Abbadon would probably be able to beat Ghaz, sadly.

Hive tyrant's initiative isn't quite as impressive as the broodlords.... that is what makes the broodlord a slightly better choice. I don't know about the Avatar, but it is probably better than the Hive Tyrant just due to having a higher initiative (it does, right?).

If you don't ask for a point vs. cost relation, then a C'tan is my preferred choice.

No point to bring up monstrous creatures.. the op said cc non monstrous creatures, so avatar, ctans etc are not included.

WarmasterScott wrote:No point to bring up monstrous creatures.. the op said cc non monstrous creatures, so avatar, ctans etc are not included.

Apparently people seem to of forgotten that.
Also, dont get me wrong I love Ghaz. Hes da biggest Ork out there. But Im thinking this is a one on one fight. Thats 1vs1 for those who dont read. No retinues, no nothing. Ghaz would probably die in a head to head with abbaddon. Sure the fates could shine on his rolls and IF abby didnt kill him in one turn, Ghaz COULD beat his face into the ground.

Lets pretend the hyped up broodlord is attacking abaddon. The lord strikes first, hitting twice. He then proceeds to cause 1.3 wounds. Abaddon has a 50% chance of saving any power weapon hit made on him. So out of 10 cc rounds, the Broodlord would make a wound in 6 and a half of them. Not enough to kill Abaddon. Abaddon has an average attacks of 7/8. Let's go easy on the broodlord and say 7. Abaddon hits back, causing 3.5 hits. He wounds on two with rerolls, so in the majority of situations all wounds are made. Taking in mind we previously went easy on the lord, we'll up that to 4 (Even if I didn't up it to 4, 3 wounds would be enough...unless a broodlord has 4..:0). The broodlord dies. Even if Abaddon only causes 1 wound, the broodlord will be killed by id (as far as i'm aware of). Abaddon wins. Also keep in mind that Abaddon has a ranged attack...

Are you including into your calculations all the biomorphs available to a broodlord? Toxin sacs increase the strength by a point. And is that including an extra attack for a charge or not? Just curious, I am sure Abbadon still whoops up on broodlords.

I, too, am very surprised to see that Ghazghkull isn't on the list. Ghazzy on the charge with a WAAAAGH! called will destroy anything he touches. 7 str 10 attacks and a 2+ armor save for two full rounds of combat. Even if he gets charged he can still declare is WAAAGH! to save himself in the first round of assault. 4 wound eternal warrior with 2+ invulnerable for 2 rounds is hard to kill. Ghazzy can take down Skullbrand single handed with the WAAAGH! charge.

People have mentioned ghazkull people. He's awesome on the turn he waaaghs and grabs his 2+ invulnerable but on any other turn his low init does him in against some of the other killers. Great though he is I still think Abaddon would do him in in almost any fight.

I forgot about skulltaker. Although we have to discount the chariot since that causes him to lose IC. I think on a jugger he is a definite contender, anybody with the daemon codex care to run the math of him vs some of the other contenders.

Skull taker can do a number on any character without eternal warrior. If he charges someone like shrike or a regular warboss its game over. However if he runs into the big ork or abby or lysander he will probably end up losing. Still a very good character however.

FoxPhoenix135 wrote:Are you including into your calculations all the biomorphs available to a broodlord? Toxin sacs increase the strength by a point. And is that including an extra attack for a charge or not? Just curious, I am sure Abbadon still whoops up on broodlords.

Im counting him as Ws 7, Str 6, I7. And not charging. How many points is the broodlord? I know he's gonna be no-where near as much as abaddon, but just wondering if you'd be able to field 2 against him..