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Bravelybravesirrobin gave a great summary of the hardest. Someone should run the math for the fully-tricked-out archon, abbadon, and that tooled-up Wolf Lord. Against one another and against squads. They’re my contenders.

Honorable mentions go to the Ork warboss, Kharne, and the GK Grandmaster for how great they are for an affordable price tag. Ork Warboss gets extra credit for his mobility. GK for his shooting and LD10 table-wide psychic hood.

EDIT {Abadon} Doesn't hurt tanks, or dreadnoughts though... Only good vs infantry

Augustus wrote:EDIT {Abadon} Doesn't hurt tanks, or dreadnoughts though... Only good vs infantry

He's strength 8 with a possibility of 11 attacks (on the charge). He's the best non-mc special character for taking out tanks (with the exception of kharn and ghazgull).

Does Marbo get an underdog bonus? Being a joe-shmoe guardsman and taking out squads of space marines single-handed? That is seems bad-ass to me.

Marbo, Straken, and Snikrot are worthy of respect as lesser badasses.

There is a lot of beats out there. Kharn, Abaddon, Yriel, Avatar, Calgar, Grimmar, Ahriman, Thraka, Dante, etc to name a few. I mean it's a hard comparison to compare close combat of eldar to the sm. They're style is different, but yriel wounding on 2+ and having str 9 against vehicles is hard to ignore. Abaddon is a solo king of ass kickery though.

Lukas?
If he wins, he wins
If he loses then they die as well, so he wins

I'm going to vote for Mephiston, purely because I think he is an awesome character. Plus he is pretty beastly in CC.

I don't see why everyone keeps saying Logan Grimnar. I mean don't get me wrong he is an absolute beast but he loses easily and hard to some of the other characters on this list. Calgar and Abaddon would both wipe the flaw with him, He's only got 3 wounds and although he has 5 attacks it's a choice between swinging first and wounding on 3's or swinging last/same time and wounding on 2's. No re-rolls but he will hit on 3's. Calgar will be hitting on 4's, wounding 2's with re-rolls and has an extra wound. abaddon will be hitting on 3's, wounding on 2's and probably have more attacks.


In fact I think my homebrew wolf lord I listed can beat him. Regardless of who charges they have counter-attack so Grimnar gets 6 and my wolf lord gets 7. since Grimnar can't instant-kill my wolf lord due to T5 and eternal warrior he'll opt to swing his axe at init 5 str 5.

so my wolf lord gets 7 attacks, 4.7 hits (on3's), 3.92 wounds (on2's), Logan saves half so 1.96 wounds, call it 2.

Logan does 6 attacks, 4 hit (on 3's), 2 wounds (on 4's), my wolf lord saves half so 1 wound.

If Logan switches to his p-fist then things still aren't much better. 6 attacks, 4 hit, 3.4 wounds, half saved so 1.7 wounds, call it 2.

My homebrew wolf lord has a slight edge regardless as he will always have more attacks than grimnar and always wound on 2's. Plus with saga of the warrior born he can theoretically expand his number of attacks by attacking weaker targets in previous turns and then plow into Grimnar. If we give him a not impossible to achieve 10 attacks (only requires that I kill 3 ordinary infantry models) and then charge/counter attack

10 attacks, 7.7 hit, 6.42 wound, half saved so 3.21 wounds and Logan is dead.


I think it really comes down to Calgar, my homebrew wolf lord, Abaddon, that awesome archon and possibly kharn. I don't have the rules and stats for kharn and Abaddon on me. Would anyone be interested in seeing how that stacks up?

Abaddon splatters Kharn before he gets to swing. Unless Kharn has the charge, then Abaddon splatters him as Kharn puts 2-3 wounds on.

DarkHound wrote:Abaddon splatters Kharn before he gets to swing. Unless Kharn has the charge, then Abaddon splatters him as Kharn puts 2-3 wounds on.

Now how do the following stack up

Abaddon - Calgar

Abaddon - Archon

Abaddon - wolf lord

Calgar - Wolf lord

Calgar - archon

Calgar - kharn

Wolf lord - kharn

Wolf lord - archon

Archon kharn


I can run Calgar/Wolf Lord off the top of my head but not any of the others.

Wolf Lord charges - 7 attacks, 4.7 hits (on3's), 3.92 wounds (on2's), Calgar saves half so 1.96 wounds, call it 2
Calgar gets 5 attacks I believe? Hits on 3's so 4.5 hit, 4.125 wound, half saved so call it 2 wounds
Next turn wolf lord does 1.7 wounds so likely he kills Calgar before Calgar strikes. However this is a very, very close match-up. Calgar will almost certainly kill my wolf lord in 2 turns but my wolf lord has decent odds of killing Calgar before he can.

If Calgar charges then my wolf lord still does 1.96 wounds in the first round (assuming he passed counter-attack) but Calgar does more like 2.4 wounds lending the edge to him as he can come close to slaying my lord in one round.

So how about if I get my (reasonable) 10 attacks instead.

Wolf Lord does 3.21 wounds in the first round (same as Grimnar), Calgar does the same 2 in response. Next turn Wolf Lord does 1.7 wounds so Calgar is dead (although my wolf lord is down 2 wounds).


Incidentally this wolf lord costs 240 pts although I just realised that he can't take Bear AND Warrior born (for some reason I thought lords could take 2 sagas) but since he is T5 not T4(5) (we think) that hasn't been a factor in any of these match-ups.

Whoa. Big response since yesterday! I'll start updating the list!

Just to set something right, you CANNOT vote for the Nightbringer!
If he can warp reality to make him an infantryman, then so can Khorne on behalf of a bloodthirster.

Indeed, the Nightbringer could warp reality so he gets 300 votes. So, no C'tan pleeease. Cheers.


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Right. List updated!

I think, point for point, my vote goes to the broodlord, especially if you take into account that he runs around with at least 5 genestealers.

Where's Ghazghkull Mag Uruk Thraka?

karimabuseer wrote:

Augustus wrote:EDIT {Abadon} Doesn't hurt tanks, or dreadnoughts though... Only good vs infantry

He's strength 8 with a possibility of 8 attacks (on the charge). He's the best non-mc special character for taking out tanks (with the exception of kharn and ghazgull).

Ghaz is easily the best IC for popping vehicles. Hes a bad ass in CC for sure, but Ill admit he cant really stack well against the likes of abbaddon or Calgar. I love me Orkses, but Im big enough to know that he cant pull it. BUT on vehicles tho mmmmm MMMMMMM! can he wreak those suckas!



For my vote, Ill go with the Dark Eldar guy on the jet bike. Holy hell is that some serious CC death.
Also, looking at abbaddons stats again, he is SO FRIGGIN BROKEN. Seriously there is no reason he should be THAT well stated

GK Grand Master, simply because so long as he can get one wound in, he can take out any character, no matter who, no matter what(barring a botched psychic test at Ld 10). And with the right equipment, he can even force a draw with Abaddon.

Meh they all suck. Eldar Phantom titan ist uber alles. Kicks your teeth in. Kicks your firends teeth in. Kicks their friends teeth in. Something comes up it can't kick in, it hit the jets and flies away. Yes, flies away and shoots you at range.

Eldar, putting the beatdown on xenos for 65 million years, with style!

Fafnir wrote:GK Grand Master, simply because so long as he can get one wound in, he can take out any character, no matter who, no matter what(barring a botched psychic test at Ld 10). And with the right equipment, he can even force a draw with Abaddon.

Kharn would brutalize a GK GM. He's immune to psychic powers, and hits like a freaking train wreck about a billion times. Even with the invul save, Kharn killz joo .


My vote is for Abbadon. Whoever said he can't kill tanks is prettymuch flat wrong, he's an average of 7 S8 attacks against the rear armor of tanks or the 12 armor of a walker, which prettymuch guarentees you at least two penetrating hits. He's got an initiative power fist that gives him reroll to wound and 2-6 bonus attacks. Even if he bricks up the roll on Drach'nyen, he can still use the Talon of Horus, and get in his 4 attacks. He also goes before you, unless you're that crack-headed archon from earlier.

I'de say Cannis after him.

Why hasn't anyone suggested Comissar "We'll be back" yet anyways?

KingCracker wrote:

karimabuseer wrote:

Augustus wrote:EDIT {Abadon} Doesn't hurt tanks, or dreadnoughts though... Only good vs infantry

He's strength 8 with a possibility of 8 attacks (on the charge). He's the best non-mc special character for taking out tanks (with the exception of kharn and ghazgull).

Ghaz is easily the best IC for popping vehicles. Hes a bad ass in CC for sure, but Ill admit he cant really stack well against the likes of abbaddon or Calgar. I love me Orkses, but Im big enough to know that he cant pull it. BUT on vehicles tho mmmmm MMMMMMM! can he wreak those suckas!



For my vote, Ill go with the Dark Eldar guy on the jet bike. Holy hell is that some serious CC death.
Also, looking at abbaddons stats again, he is SO FRIGGIN BROKEN. Seriously there is no reason he should be THAT well stated

He's an 11,000 (remember we're in m42 now) year old chaos warlord, blessed by the ruinous powers. Of course he should be fraggin hard lol. In fact, read this :"At El'phanor, his forces assaulted the Citadel of the Kromarch; a fastness built with all the cunning its designers could muster. It was pierced with but a single portal, a mighty gate of adamantium, fully three metres thick, but Abaddon cared not ... Abaddon laughed, raising his sword wreathed in black flames high above his head and smote the gate a blow that smashed it to splinters and shook the very foundations of the citadel."
They've underwritten him damnit! He should be s 10!!! (PSST if anyone is wondering, this is during the 4th Black crusade-m34 )

Wolf Lord: [205]: Thunder Wolf Mount, Thunder Hammer, Storm Shield.


This dude owns!

STR 10 CC hits! 12" Charge! 3+ Invulnerable! T5!

Are we doing this based on ability to massacre infantry/tanks or who would win in a fight against each other.

Because Canis is awesome if you get him surrounded but he's only str 5 and so rubbish if a walker gets into the equation and he lacks an invulnerable so any of the other uber IC's on this list will have him for breakfast.

Ghazkull is nasty but again while he murderises troops he's in trouble against any of the killers we've thrown up so far. On the turn he waaaghs he gets a 2+ invulnerable and he's the only character other than my wolf lord with a T5 so if he waaaaghs then he's in the running, particularly with a str10 PK, but if he doesn't waaagh he's in a lot of trouble vs my wolf lord, logan, calgar, abaddon, the archon and especially a GK grandmaster (1 failed save and poof, there goes gazzy).

Well, the tyranid brood lord isn't the best, but I think is a contender. I think that Eldar Howling Banshee or triking scorpion


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Howling banshee or striking scorpion phoenix lord i might add

Lucius is incredibly effective against hordes because for every save he makes, they take a S4 Power weapon hit.

Also Abaddon just because he's Abaddon

I've seen Khan deal out some wicked punishment... against a landraider and 2 squads of marines (all gone now) so i'm gonn ahave to gowith him. Kharn the Betrayer.

Archite w/ agonizer, splinter pistol, drugs, shadow field, plasma grenades.

She usually hits first and has 6 attacks on the charge that can be rerolled,
thanks to the combat drugs.

a demolisher cannon...think about it

the_emperors_renegade wrote:a demolisher cannon...think about it

If it scatters into cc, it can be quite devastating.
But some models have good invulnerable saves so that they eventually survive such a hit.

True you old desert fox!

Ghazghkull has seven S10 PK attacks on-the-charge and has a 2+ invulnerable save during the Waaagh! He and his Meganob friends have killed many a special character, including Abaddon and the Nightbringer.

Well, another good cc character is Karandras, with 8 power fist attacks of S8 on the charge.
This guy can outflank or infiltrate and so can be brought with high probability into the thickest melee.