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I remember the day the National Guard men and women who had served in Iraq got home. The city colleges auditorium was full of expectant families and friends waiting for them to get off the bus, do there thing and then get released. It was all very touching, even the Mayor was told by the high brass he had 2 minutes, not a second more.

After the welcome home ceremony, as we were leaving I saw protesters across the street, about 60 or so in all carrying "baby killer" signs and other signs of protest and what was more shocking was the fact about 30% of the crowd of protesters was between the age of 14 and 16.

I remember an instance at Perkins (it's a family restaraunt chain, nationwide) here in my hometown where some college punks were poking fun at this old Vietnam vet. One guy actually sat across from him and started calling the old man names and whatnot. My bro and I were starting to get up out of our seats when the old man looked the kid in the eye and said "Son, I've killed more men in my life than you've had the pleasure of knowing. I give you just 10 seconds to go back to your friends or I will shove this drinking straw into your brain through your eye socket." The dude tried making another smart ass comment but by then my bro and I were standing around him and he decided 3 against 1, 1 being a Veteran of a war, were not good odds. After telling the manager what transpired the group (about 5 of them IIRC) were told to leave. I ended up paying the old mans bill as I felt bad he had to put up with that crap. I didn't tell the guy I was, I told the waitress to give me his check and that after we left to tell him his meal was taken care of.

So yeah, Vets get a lot of crap over here. Not sure if it's better or worst but it still happens. I've lost acquaintances from the Iraq war, I have friends who are mentally f.u.b.a.r due to the war in Iraq and it really pisses me off when they get mistreated, especially by adults who should know better.

Lord-Loss wrote:Of course its wrong to make fun of disabled people, the dicks who were mocking him should be beaten to death/near death.

You are free because rough men stand ready to do violence to those who would take away your freedom.

I live in a house cause rough men build houses, cause its there job.

My house was built by mexican laborers, the ones I saw didn't look too rough.

inquisitor_bob wrote:

Lord-Loss wrote:Of course its wrong to make fun of disabled people, the dicks who were mocking him should be beaten to death/near death.

You are free because rough men stand ready to do violence to those who would take away your freedom.

I live in a house cause rough men build houses, cause its there job.

My house was built by mexican laborers, the ones I saw didn't look too rough.

Does your house have lots of purple plush carpet, gold leather trim and spinners? I kid, I kid. I'm not racist, I hate everyone that isn't me.

I hope for your sake it wasn't built using Chinese drywall. If it was you might want to move out.

Yeah, I heard about the Chinese drywall issues. I think most of that is in the SE part of the US.

Actually, most homes in the Houston area and probably in most of Texas are constructed with Mexican/Hispanic laborers. I'm not complaining about the quality. In fact, I purchased 2 new houses in the past 8 years and neither of them had any major problems. The laborers seem to be proficient in the construction trade and the quality is average.

We had the carpets removed and replaced with engineered hardwood couple of years ago. No leather trims but have a leather sofa... I have no idea what a spinner is.

LuciusAR wrote:Admittedly I got a tad lost in the middle of your post Orlanth, it did get a tad waffly.

To be fair it wasnt waffle, it is content. The wool pulled over peoples eyes and ears for so long is rather subtle and involves a fairly long logic chain. Read it through again and then apply it to what you see around you. Then I hope you will see what is going on.

LuciusAR wrote:
I can’t speak on the subject of social work, you clearly are experience in this field and so I bow to your superior knowledge in this matter and if you genuinely where taught that:

I was a homeless worker, and thus had to do the same youth and social work training modules to work. The same modules that would have fully qualified me as a social worker had I completed tham all. I saw the bs first hand.

LuciusAR wrote:

As a case in point I remember my old youth worker training, and how I was told that an ethnic minority cannot be rascist, a female cannot be sexist, and by extension a wrong between a youth and an adult is ultimately the adults 'fault' as neither of the three are 'empowered'.

Then I concur that this is the worst form of BS. Whilst they may not have the same level of power as a white male adult to suggest that absolves them of responsibility is downright stupid.

To be fair this is now outdated thinking, but only because its usage had expired and it was dangerous to defend. Between 1997 and 2000 in particular the civil service management was weeded out of non New Labour members as much as possible. The idea that if you didnt agree with the PC meant you were a bigot was the principle means of sidelining many people, though other tactics exist. a slightly milder alternative made you 'not fit in' if you didnt follow the new thinking, and people who dont fit in are encouraged to take early retirement and can be bypassed on the promotion ladder.
The Uk used to have a party politically neutral civil service, thatis not to say civil servants were not politicised, they were but they were party neutral. Blair stopped that and this was aone of the tools to do so.

Once the restructuring was more or less complete this dogma was quietly dropped, however it still persists in some peoples heads and there is a false rebalancing that appears in public view from time to time. Best recent example is of a lesbian soldier who got IIRC 400K+ pounds for being persistently propositioneed by a fellow sergeant. This wasnt even for assaults just unwelcome propositioning. When compared to the pittance soldiers get for losing limbs this is an insult.

What is more soldiers are expect to be tough, while that doesnt excues harassment a mamber of the soldiering profession has to go through a lot in standard terms. On patrol in Northen ireland a soldier could get urinated on or have rocks thrown at them, a British soldier would not fire back at that, many armies soldiers might well do so.
So look at it in perspective. A soldier who is given a LOT of abuse in the field has to just get over it. A female soldier getting far less abuse but one to which the equality imbalance dogma applies is worthy of massive compensation.

Because of the dogmas, the severity of offense or loss is less important than the doctrinal nature of the offence/sdamage and the target chosen. there is something inherently wrong there.

LuciusAR wrote:
But these sorts of dirty bastards have been around since long before Labour got into power. Back in the 80’s for example football grounds where a no go area for huge numbers of genuine fans such was the appalling state of hooliganism. Today this sort of thing is very rare.

Well the abuse is different now. In times past there was largely a small underclass and criminal community that caused problems, chav however is more widespread. every society has such people,

LuciusAR wrote:
30 years ago racist abuse was commonplace now Ian Wright and Amir Khan are considered national heroes.

You had ethnic national heroes in the past, however nowadays the ethnicity is taken more to point. In fact in some cases it is a rwequirement. Dame Kelly Holmes, got her knighthood for a single Olympic gold medal. Why was she singled out, it took Sir Roger Bannister to do what some thought impossible to win a sporting knighthood and them only after subsequent work. Knighthoods were not given after that last set of olympics, but then there were few ethnic medal winners.
It gets worse in the military. Cpl Beharry was a brave man, but he was not nominated for the VC by any veteran, and medal holders are consulted. His medal was upgraded from purely on his ethnicity and the ethnicity was played for all it was worth. Meanwhile a sgt who lost his hand and managhed to hold off two compaines of Iraqis while wounded with captured equipment was nominated heavily, he eventaully after many years got a minor award. Though partly because Beharry was doing harmless funky driving, the nominee was killing people which is not very nice and PC isnt it, after all we are there to liberate the poor Iraqis.
We have no problems with ethnic heroes, Frank Bruno in particular is a peoples darling from long before the Blair era, but all too often the media hand is now slanted.

LuciusAR wrote:
That the event the OP described was considered unique enough to be considered national news indicate, to me at least, that events such as this are still thankfully very rare and that 99.9% of the country are decent enough to still be shocked by them.

That is where you are sadly wrong, the majoirty no longer cares. Education sidelines our national culture and identity, particularly regarding history. Also why do you think Blair destroyed the infantry regiments to gcreate the 1st to 5th rifles - it was no more thna an attemtopt to anihilate the old cultural traditions, which while essential to army morale are of no use in New Britain. The Scottish regiments faced a similar fate and Blair also tried to aboloish the Guards, but was blocked on that one. There are plenty of ex-guards officers in Whitehall and in big business.
the nations military traditions are what seperates our units from those of other countries. The fact that you belong to this regiment with two centuries of honourable history means a lot when under pressure, but it means nothing to a government while wants nothing more than a new sterile nation on which they can place their stamp forever.

Why do this? An apathetic nation with its culture removed will believe the hype more readily, its that simple really.

LuciusAR wrote:
Overall I think society is a very decent place....

Our society is anything but a decent place, the difference is mainly that the rot is painted over. While we cannot say what has been sensored it is worrying to know that Blair in his first term of office issued morecensorship orders than the entireity of the terms of Major and Thatcher. This is despite not facing an active IRA threat or Soviet Union. where is all the sensorship going? We cant know for sure, but we do know that a lot of the societal rot is being plastered over.
Racism is increasing not decreasing, however crime statistics are fudged and many attacks are simply whitewashed over. The government couldnt sensor over major attacks but reports from the BBC Radio 4 about villence in Luton mentioend bombings andruisging street crime between hard right and asian groups. it was interesting to hear of all this, and also to note that local and nartional press covered next to NOTHING on it. a bombing at a mosque in Luton occured but nothing reported until the Radio 4 documentary. Why wasnt this crime reported? Because its censored, its hardly not news after all. But it is important for you and others like you to think that we are all happy and peaceful together and that there are only tiny handfuls of people in rare isolated cases casuing problems.
Crime is rising, it particular gun and knife crime, also race attacks. However the statistics are easy to fudge, because they can be recategorised on a technicality. One trick to make a vilent town appear peaceful is to report only crime reported to the front desk for official figures, so if you call 999 thats are reported 999 call, but for crime stats only desk reports are reported crimes. Thus crime figures appear lower than they actually are, the populace are luilled into thinking we are all peace and fluffy bunnies under the wise leadership of Gorden Brown. Lucius please please dont be so blind.

LuciusAR wrote:
and isolated extreme examples, such as this, are simply anecdotal evidence and should be treated as such.

How often will you have to read these reports before you see the pattern?
This is anything but isolated. Head-in-sandism will not make the rot go away, only an awakening that lets you see the BS for what it is and dispel it.






This is perhaps New Labours big error, for the chav though violent is ironically in a base sense patriotic. This can be exploited by the right and the wrong people.

LuciusAR wrote:
PC, at least in my experience, is a bit of a bogeyman usually brought up by frothing at the mouth right wing hacks to convince people that there is an international conspiracy plotting the downfall of white Christians.

The trouble here is that only one of two are speaking against it, so they are easy to label. Its easier to lampoon Daily Mail than admit that doctors are wiling to suicide bomb airports. The latter is too incrudulous to believe, but sadly it is true. Yes that was isolated but many many problems are far from.

LuciusAR wrote:
References to the mythical ‘PC brigade’ are common and yet 99% of the time the stories regarding this Imaginary malcontents are a clever combination of Hyperbole, misinformation and downright lies.

Where do you get the 99% from? I can tell from then as now that you want to disbeleive the scares over PC, but the trouble is there IS a pattern behind them. were the caases of lobsides damage awards due to ethnicity gender or sexcuality all myths? Is a homosexual worth several times more than a heterosexual in terms of damage payouts? Hell I know of people who have no minority status fail to get help when blatantly creative dismissal cases, two In know refused thweir redundancy pay. i know that if they werre women or ethnic the company could be in deep gak and would try it. But white males have no such resource, and what is more cannot often get legal aid!
You might call this hearsay, but how often before you see the pattern.
I know army recruits who found out of the ten tests for proficiency at selection whites only get in if they pass all ten while minorities get in if they pass any of the ten, all because the Mod wants more ethnic recruits. Is this acceptaible? also how many soldiers do I need to hear this from before it stops becoming 'isolated incidenents' or hearsay.
I know a paramedic with many years experience who was refused full entry into the ambulance service and was told that he couldnt join because he was white and they were only recruiting minorites, and no experience was necessary! Is this fair, unfair or hearsay?
Are ethnic only shortlists or women only shortlists biased or fair? Should you be denied an opportunity because by national statistics women/ethnic minorities are underproportioned and only women/ethnic minorities will be accepted?
Is this still 'hearsay' when the women only shortlists are for Labourt party candidates and seen full view?

LuciusAR wrote:
It’s now October, I predict at least 4-5 front page tabloid stories before Christmas complaining than someone, somewhere is planning to ban Christmas. Then of course we will all go on to celebrate Christmas as normal.

Well in Birmingham they tried to call it 'Winterval', you are right that it was blocked, but you are wrong to think the attempt was not made. In Harrow decorations are up for Diwali and fireworks are held (you might hear some this weekend if your local ccouncil funds Diwali celbrations). Mweanwhile in Harrow decorations they are kept up for the Christmas season, but have no Christmas iconography. That is less important as Christmas has been so commercialised nowe it has lost its meaning beyond the days itself. Easter is more important to Christians anyway. The point remains Christmas has been sidelined in Harrow and very little is done to support it civically, while Diwali gains full civic support.
Yes Christmas will go ahead, but that is not to say there are not moves against it.

LuciusAR wrote:
PC’s aims are laudable and whilst it may not get it right all the time that’s not to say the principles are not sound. Oh, and above all don’t believe everything your told by Richard Littlejohn.

I dont need to I still have the course notes. I still have my army contacts, I still have independent power of thought and eyeas open. Why would my being able to see the patterns automatically equate to my being easily led by Daily Mail journalists. By being the lone voice in opposition and consistent in their rhetoric they acted as Blairs safety valve, had noone spoken out the silence would have spoken for itself. But as two newspapers which very closely mirror each other that appear to be just one the Daily express and the Daily Mail it is easy to laugh them off.

By the way there is nothing laudable about PC. 'Affirmative action' and 'positive discrimination' are just dicrimination by a different name with a different focus of privilege and do not bring equality. the accusation inherent in PC doctrines and the laballeing of those who do not follow the doctrines are diametrically opposed to the tolerance that PC is supposed to bring. as for the language changes to avoid offense, at first they were seen as a joke, but are very dangerous. as Chainman Mao understood if you change the dialectic yiou change the thinking. PC lanugage policy is a very real form of compulsory brainwashing and collective guilt trip we really dont need.

Orlanth wrote:stuff

Was that meant to sound like the epiphany speech from V for Vendetta?

Well in Birmingham they tried to call it 'Winterval', you are right that it was blocked, but you are wrong to think the attempt was not made

except for the whole this not actually being true thing.
wiki with links. Hoary old right wing media myth that trots out around this time every year.

archive remains note multiple use of the word Christmas

If that had been a friend of mine I probably would have pushed my fist through one of their faces.

reds8n wrote:

Well in Birmingham they tried to call it 'Winterval', you are right that it was blocked, but you are wrong to think the attempt was not made

except for the whole this not actually being true thing.
wiki with links. Hoary old right wing media myth that trots out around this time every year.

archive remains note multiple use of the word Christmas

You have a misunderstanding. There is no denying that the Winterval initiative existed, furthmore this integeration and delabelling of indignous cultural festivals was difrectly opposite to the policy of heavy state funding of exclusivist ethnic centres and facilities under the supposded same dogma of equality.

Birmingham City Council tried a relabelling, it didnt work. They didn't try and out and out ban of Christmas, but then again they could not. Besides what is in a name? To a religious group a lot, remove stage by stage the church identity from Winterval first by diluting it

Put it this way, Winterval at face value is all about integrating cultures yes. Now you intigrate Diwali by celebrating Diwali and Christmas, you dont integrate by blending festivals, no thats getting rid of them. its therold bait and switch of amalgamate first to cover up a gradual abolition.

You see its done in stages.

How do they tell you that you cannot have the job because the shortlist is ethnic only? If they tried that staight off the people would be against it, so they bering in PC make it all 'equality and diversity' then they rename the concept 'affirmative action' and tell people that they are helpinf combat racism and bring in 'tolerance' and 'best practice'. Then when they have all these little stages in place they can say to you that you cant have the job because you are the wrong colour, but its ok because we are the solution to discrimination not the bigots. You are left thinking there is a difference between that and old school racial bias, actually there is not.

Orlanth wrote:This is perhaps New Labours big error, for the chav though violent is ironically in a base sense patriotic. This can be exploited by the right and the wrong people.

I concur.

On the other hand with the rest of your argument, I think we're past the worst of Positive Discrimination and Negative Integration for English people. My nephew's school recently abolished (what was there in the loosest form) 'Prayers' in Assembly beginning with 'Oh Holy One' because apparently they were too Christian. They didn't even end with 'Amen'. The amount of PC bs we get these days...

However, I'm again voting Conservative, 70% because of Ian Hislop's spectacular performance on Question Time a few weeks ago.




Bad timing, mybad.

sA

I'll vote for the party willing to live off the sasme amount as they would get on benefits or national minimum wage each week.

Right now each party looks as bad as the next really, but I've thought that for a while. Any party that is willing to stop politicians lining their own pockets and plough that cash into the places it is needed, close the borders to sort out Britains problems and actually allow the BBC to report what CNN does about Britain, they'll have my vote. Until then my voice is going to be shouting hoping others will hear it and something will happen to start turning this country around. Until then Britain is on its merry way to hell and IMO probably a bloodbath when everything kicks off.

Nothing makes me angrier then people, especially Chavs and the like (I have almost driven my car onto the sidewalk because of the Emo kids standing there, that would be at least 1000 points per, but I shouldn't rant about emos here....), mocking others, especially with Disabilities and ESPECIALLY Veterans.

Here in Mn hitting emo's gets you zero points. They want to die anyway so where is the reward? Gang bangers and wannabes are worth 1k/per though. Just a shame I'd ruin my car actually running the bastards over. I'd probably get someones femur or tibia through my cars oil pan or lodged up in the drive train thus snapping my drive shaft.

Damnit. That's depressing. Guess I see at least one positive to owning guns. Saves me on car repair work.

The thing is, how many of these kids are going to be rebels or emos their whole lives? I don't doubt many of us have been a part of disliked social minorities.

Nerds generally don't care what people think of them while emo's, who while having friends and get along with people, still think the world hates them and they always talk about /wrists. In my experience with them anyway.

I really wish I could stumble upon another ahole like the one in my Perkin's story earlier. See how well they spew mockery of a crippled vet with 6" of stainless steel in their windpipe.

Yeah their are way too many scrubs out their these days!

This world needs a hero a real hero honestly we need a ripped, smoker ,manly man, comic book hero to come back from being fictitious and Kick some

Shadowbrand wrote:Yeah their are way too many scrubs out their these days!

This world needs a hero a real hero honestly we need a ripped, smoker ,manly man, comic book hero to come back from being fictitious and Kick some

Maybe you should an hero.

In fact, all of Dakka should an hero, right now.

Suicide is for weaklings.

I say we put criminal offenders into military service.

That outta straighten em out.

I sence Rage in this one.

No. The military won't want them. Nor should they.

Scum like that aren't fit to shine my shoes, much less serve their country.

The only answer is indentured servitude or gladiatorial combat.

They wouldn't last in the military. I'd sense lots of "weapons malfunctions" and "accidental weapon discharges" or "oops, we told Billy spanker to go pick up that teddy bear on the street, had no idea it was an IED."

Who said they would be armed?

And I am in favor of gladiator combat, with them armed with dildos vs a starved Komodo dragon.

No no no Shadow. That's cruel and unusual.

We actually pit them, one against another. With sharp weapons.

It'll be fun!

No a healthy Dragon. I was wrong there.

Maybe we could torture them......

I wouldn't mind indentured servitude.

Bah, they'd probably even feth that up. Just kill them and be done with it, or maybe make them go through S.E.A.L training.

"The enemy is numerous and well trained. To be honest, you probably won't survive this assault. But if any of you do make it back alive... just make sure emo kid here doesn't."

Hey folks lets use em as Gretchen! let em clear the mine fields for our soldiers!

Orkeosaurus wrote:"The enemy is numerous and well trained. To be honest, you probably won't survive this assault. But if any of you do make it back alive... just make sure emo kid here doesn't."

Orlanth wrote:

You have a misunderstanding.

No, you do here.

There is no denying that the Winterval initiative existed

Nice try, but that's not what I said. I know it existed.. I even linked to its original website archive. What you've got wrong is its purpose. It was nothing to do with "integration and delabelling". It was a marketing exercise, driven by capitalism and an attempt to bring more shoppers into Birmingham City Centre after a multi million £ revamp/rebufitting. There was no "happy Winterval" cards or festivals, it was a convenient catchphrase used to encourage people to get out and spend their money.

Perhaps the most notorious of the anti-Christmas rebrandings is Winterval, in Birmingham, and when you telephone the Birmingham city council press office to ask about it, you are met first of all with a silence that might seasonably be described as frosty. "We get this every year," a press officer sighs, eventually. "It just depends how many rogue journalists you get in any given year. We tell them it's bollocks, but it doesn't seem to make much difference."

According to an official statement from the council, Winterval - which ran in 1997 and 1998, and never since - was a promotional campaign to drive business into Birmingham's newly regenerated town centre. It began in early November and finished in January. During the part of that period traditionally celebrated as Christmas, "there was a banner saying Merry Christmas across the front of the council house, Christmas lights, Christmas trees in the main civil squares, regular carol-singing sessions by school choirs, and the Lord Mayor sent a Christmas card with a traditional Christmas scene wishing everyone a Merry Christmas".

article

no "watering down" or attempts to deconstruct it as a generic "all faiths together" at all. To claim otherwise is pure hyperbole and paranoia if not outright lying.

What's especially tiresome, other than the ritual wheeling out of a person of a different faith to protest that they are not killing/banning/protesting about/up in arms over/cliche of your choice, as if they are to be offered as a sacrifice to the great and terrible CHRISTMAS GOD which demands all bow before it......maybe it is just a reworked pagan ceremony after all ..

... anyway... what's especially tiresome is the way that this myth gets started earlier and earlier every year.

Just like Xmas.

Let me put this in perspective.

You're complaining about what amounts to, for lack of a better word, hooligans with knives. If this is the worst of your problems your nation is doing just fine. The idea that this creates V-esque conspiracy notions is just ridiculous.