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2009/10/30 00:32:33
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Yes, but lack of proof does nor prove lack of existence. 200 years ago we had no proof that electrons exist, but it did not mean they didn't. Infact, a lot of scientific progress (especially in particle physics) is based on conjecture leading to testing and thereby finding (or not) proof.
I agree with you 100% on one thing though - there is NO proof (or even reliable evidence) of God existing.
Ironically, if someone could prove that God exists, then believing in him would become like believing in dinner tables of hat stands - once you have proof, faith would become meaningless anyway, in addition to merely wrong.
Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Social control. The same reasons for religion since way back when. I'm not trolling. This is essentially what I believe the purpose of organized religion is.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:So, why do you follow the Religion you have chosen?
I was raised Catholic. I am no longer Catholic or any other organized religion. I am agnostic but this could be phantom feelings left over from my Catholic upbringing.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Have you ever considered other Religions?
When I was younger and disillusioned with the Catholic Church. None of them had any answers for me.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:How do you regard other Religions?
I am actually a BIG believer in the idea of, "if it works for you, go for it!" If it improves your life, great! I have no issues with believers of any faith, philosophy or idea until they impose those beliefs onto others. For me this is true of Christians, Muslims or whatever.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:How do you regard other denominations, and have you ever considered converting to them?
Oh, I can't say I don't enjoy trying to tear down the occasional enthusiastic Christian (Flying Spaghetti Monster anyone?). But I really try to fight that urge as I get older because I know it is a base desire.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:If so, why, or indeed why not? How much does your Religion genuinely affect your day to day life? Is it something you follow as much as you can, or more a 'handy when I need to make a difficult decision' type of thing?
Oh! When life gives me lemons I become a hard core Catholic all over again! It is allowed, after all! Just joking. This doesn't really apply to me.
2009/10/30 00:37:13
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
I will be putting Pastafarian on my next census form.
Not because I actually believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but because I believe in the value of mockery as a weapon in the fight against idiocy/creationism. In the face of such blind stupidity as creationism, how can any rational person not resort to mockery to preserve their sanity?
Though guards may sleep and ships may lay at anchor, our foes know full well that big guns never tire.
I will be putting Pastafarian on my next census form.
Not because I actually believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but because I believe in the value of mockery as a weapon in the fight against idiocy/creationism. In the face of such blind stupidity as creationism, how can any rational person not resort to mockery to preserve their sanity?
My friend started his own religion called P.A.G.A.N. = People Against Goodness And Normalcy, I am a member, does that count?
2009/10/30 00:41:17
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it.
2009/10/30 00:45:51
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Cheese Elemental wrote:Religion gave me hope and lifted me out of my depression. It gives me moral guidance and a community that doesn't judge me. I used to be a hardcore atheist, but my life has become a lot better since becoming religious.
Consider yourself fortunate, because the reverse was true for me. Christianity and its various inconsistencies, hypocrisies, and the people who gloried in them undermined my belief in a moral society, created an environment where you were constantly judged, and drove me to the edge of self-destruction. It was only once I got away from that toxic environment that I began to feel like a worthwhile human being and began to move away from that precipice.
As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club
2009/10/30 00:47:10
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
I will be putting Pastafarian on my next census form.
Not because I actually believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but because I believe in the value of mockery as a weapon in the fight against idiocy/creationism. In the face of such blind stupidity as creationism, how can any rational person not resort to mockery to preserve their sanity?
What a nice, blanket attack on anyone who is religious who believes in the idea of creation.
Perhaps I should say that people who believe in the Big Bang theory are stupidly blind. See, I can troll too (in fact I get accused of it daily so I must be doing it right).
I think this thread needs a lock. It's just gonna get ugly.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/10/30 00:54:25
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Fifty wrote:Yes, but lack of proof does nor prove lack of existence.
Of course not, but it can lead to the rational assumption that the possibility is moot (and/or null and void), at least by our common understanding.
200 years ago we had no proof that electrons exist, but it did not mean they didn't. Infact, a lot of scientific progress (especially in particle physics) is based on conjecture leading to testing and thereby finding (or not) proof.
If you can equate something like electrons (which can be studied directly) to an amorphous figure, that seemingly occupies only the mind of humans; I am pretty sure I could dig what you were saying. The problem is just that though, I cannot logically connect electrons, to the form and existence of god; by any stretch of my logical mind.
2009/10/30 00:55:18
Subject: Re:What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Fifty wrote:
I think the problem we have here is that the term "Atheist" was not even used until the late 18th Century.
The term 'atheism' (atheisme) originated in 16th century France as a pejorative. The etymological root of the word, the Greek 'atheos', had a meaning almost directly comparable to that of the modern 'atheism'; with the only difference being one of possession vs. belief ('without god' vs. 'lacks a belief in god').
Fifty wrote:
If you contend that there was no such thing as Atheism or Atheists until then, you are correct in what you are saying. I view it that there were Atheists before that date who never referred to themselves, nor were referred to by their contemporaries as Atheists. Those earlier thinkers were unified more by a belief in how to think more than a belief in what not to think.
In that case you also have to lump a number of theistic thinkers into the classification of 'Atheist'; including Spinoza, Voltaire, Kant, James, and several others.
But, moving on: you're envisioning God/god/s as a sort of metaphor for inflexible thinking?
Example: Someone who clings to his belief in phlogiston is as guilty of a belief in God as someone who continues to believe in the inferiority of women due to a particular reading of the Koran.
Fifty wrote:
I think we could, for the purposes of a more meaningful conversation, agree to disagree on how to use the word "Atheist" and refer to Rationalists a preferred term for "my" kind of Atheist and an "A-theist" or "Unbeliever" for your kind of Atheist.
As I say though, I do not like the term Atheist anyway, and don't really like to call myself or be called one, so I'll even concede the term to you and use your definition for this thread, whilst retaining my own definition for use in my own thoughts.
I doubt there's much else that we would disagree on. There's a fair amount of rationalism in my own thinking. The one thing I might posit that you probably won't like is the necessity of belief. That is, given certain circumstances, belief is likely to be a prerequisite for progress as a person/group.
A non-theistic example: I believe that if I work hard, I'll be rewarded. I don't like working hard, but I so like being rewarded. So I work hard, because I believe it will lead to reward. Of course, I don't know it will lead to reward. There's no guarantee of anything a priori to the desired eventuality, so my the entire operation turns on my belief in what will transpire.
Taking this into theistic territory: Inevitably, any significant endeavor will involve a stubborn insistence on the pursuit of that which is seemly unattainable. As you've said, much of science is predicated on utilizing patient observation as a means of fact-checking any given theory. While that sound relatively simple on paper, any good scientist will tell you that it isn't quite so elementary as advertised. Long hours in a lab suck, for lack of a better word; especially when those long hours can effectively terminate a career should they prove your theory wrong. Something is required to keep a person motivated in the course of such an endeavor, and for a lot of people that something is God/gos/s. For just as many others its Science, where the word references more than the process itself. In any case, its an abstract concept that provides emotional comfort in times which are difficult for reason or another.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/30 01:05:18
Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh.
2009/10/30 01:02:43
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Cheese Elemental wrote:Religion gave me hope and lifted me out of my depression. It gives me moral guidance and a community that doesn't judge me. I used to be a hardcore atheist, but my life has become a lot better since becoming religious.
Consider yourself fortunate, because the reverse was true for me. Christianity and its various inconsistencies, hypocrisies, and the people who gloried in them undermined my belief in a moral society, created an environment where you were constantly judged, and drove me to the edge of self-destruction. It was only once I got away from that toxic environment that I began to feel like a worthwhile human being and began to move away from that precipice.
THIS!!! 1000x (meaning, I can totally relate with every fiber of my being)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/30 01:14:26
I am a damaged individual screaming random obscenities into the internet, sorry if I upset you.
"Dig what you dig. Don't take any fool's madness, just dig what you dig."
-Corey Taylor (Not Saying you're a fool )
"You guys are nuttier n fruitbats who just sucked a three week old pineapple." -Frazzled
2009/10/30 01:07:39
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
I will be putting Pastafarian on my next census form.
Not because I actually believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but because I believe in the value of mockery as a weapon in the fight against idiocy/creationism. In the face of such blind stupidity as creationism, how can any rational person not resort to mockery to preserve their sanity?
What a nice, blanket attack on anyone who is religious who believes in the idea of creation.
Perhaps I should say that people who believe in the Big Bang theory are stupidly blind. See, I can troll too (in fact I get accused of it daily so I must be doing it right).
I think this thread needs a lock. It's just gonna get ugly.
I think it is doing good. It only gets ugly if we let it.
Let it out people! Confusion, frustration, betrayal... Lets get to know each other better, and understand the faith of others better. Just remember to play nice, and let's not accuse people of trolling. Ask if that was their intention. If things heat up, TAKE IT OUTSIDE!!! PM if you want to continue 1 on 1.
WE ARE BIG KIDS, DAMMIT!!! Let's act that way. I want more knowledge, more understanding. Share, don't be stingy! Input, inpuuuuut. Om nom nom...
Automatically Appended Next Post: Please, take this with a grain of salt. It is a role reversal exersize that was made by an atheist. I have been on both sides of it, Christian (Well, Mormon) as well as atheist. Don't be outraged, just listen to the point he is trying to make. His outlook is why I am sometimes cynical of certain Christians... Not all, just the archetype he portrays. The "I'm right, you are wrong" concept,
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/10/30 01:26:16
I am a damaged individual screaming random obscenities into the internet, sorry if I upset you.
"Dig what you dig. Don't take any fool's madness, just dig what you dig."
-Corey Taylor (Not Saying you're a fool )
"You guys are nuttier n fruitbats who just sucked a three week old pineapple." -Frazzled
2009/10/30 01:25:29
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
I'm surprised no one has bitched about my new Sig yet.
I just find it offensive someone would call me stupid for believing in creation. The Big Bang sounds as far out of left field to me as some diety just creating something out of nothing sounds to someone not being religious.
I believe in God, I'm Christian and while I may not see everything as accurate in the Bible I still hold onto my belief in God. For me, sometimes pulling out the Bible or going to church makes me feel a lot better about myself. I imagine it's akin to non-religious people doing whatever it is that they do to find inner peace.
I think that is why religion exists in the modern world. For some, having faith in someone of a higher form on a different plane of existence that they believe will bring them comfort should be reason enough for that person to believe what they believe in.
It is the same reason people smoke or get high or down mass quantities of alcohol. It makes them feel better. I don't judge potheads or alcoholics or smokers on why they do what they do to relieve stress. I don't agree with it as being suitable only for health reasons (and no, don't berate me on weed being harmless because it's not).
If I can respect a stoners decision to live life not actually being mentally part of the world around him due to lowered brain activity, than why can't people respect those who worship or believe or have faith in a diety that is neither physical or of this plane of existence?
I can't fathom how being stoned daily or drunk daily can make life better, just like non-believers can't fathom how believing in something/someone that isn't a form made physical can make life better for believers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/30 01:25:55
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/10/30 01:33:09
Subject: Re:What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
That is because: A) I am not offended. That is your opinion, I can dig that. B) I am a true American, based on those three at the bottom. C) I am happy we can have a conversation about something without the two of us calling each other trolls, like the night before last.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/10/30 01:34:16
I am a damaged individual screaming random obscenities into the internet, sorry if I upset you.
"Dig what you dig. Don't take any fool's madness, just dig what you dig."
-Corey Taylor (Not Saying you're a fool )
"You guys are nuttier n fruitbats who just sucked a three week old pineapple." -Frazzled
2009/10/30 01:38:36
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
I'm an agnostic, though on balance, I'd prefer it if there was no sentient higher power. I find the idea of a God who can think on anything approaching a human level and who has any sort of power/responsibility in the universe really depressing.
I have absolutely no problem with religious people.
I have a problem with fanatical or rude people though, be they atheist or religious.
I think, from my discussions with a lot of different people, that believing in a higher power brings a lot of comfort and peace of mind to people. Sometimes I envy that, as I'm often grumpy and discontented. Certain studies have shown that people with faith tend to live happier and longer lives than atheists. So I never try to argue someone out of their faith- I assume they would find is as offensive as I find someone trying to convert me to their religion.
I value doubt a lot, and for that reason agnosticism seems to fit me. If I had kids, I'd happily let my partner raise them in whatever faith she wanted though, and possibly attend religious services if they wanted me to. I also go to funerals and weddings, because they have an important social function, and I go to Mass at christmas, because it makes my mother happy. The social function of religion can be really valuable.
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
2009/10/30 01:41:43
Subject: Re:What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
I dunno about you but I relate fine to
THE DIVINE
At least better than to Lady Gaga
and whatever it was that ate her.
having started off like Wrex, lets go for the hat trick:
I am pretty convinced that religion doesn't have a point. Its like a huge institutional Cargo Cult that has too much inertia to fail. Folks don't want to look at the possibility that they were completely wrong that all their ritual and supplicaton hasn't provided any real impact, so they induct their children to help justify that their position was right.
If a person were to present a text as contradictory as most religious text in anything but a religious light the book would be discredited solely on being self referential. Never mind the appeal to consequences inherent in its teachings. Yet when one questions these books they suddenly are burdened with proof. As much as I'd like one to be verifyably right Christianity is just as right/wrong as Scientology at the moment. Would the person with superpowers please stand up...and demonstrate?
I'm impressed that Religion keeps coming up though. Its like we all want to talk about it yet, being the internet, everyone wants to be right too much to let go enough for a good discussion.
Edit: and I keep reading that sentence wondering if I've actually been vaguely nice to the Space Clam Movement Hubbard built....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/30 01:45:37
Special unique snowflake of unique specialness (+1/+3versus werewolves)
Alternatively I'm a magical internet fairy.
Pho indignation *IS* the tastiest form of angry!
2009/10/30 01:46:08
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Being called a troll doesn't bother me much so long as the one calling me a troll takes time to read my posts.
I feel like Gwar at times. I have stepped on peoples shoes but not to the point I've gotten mod warnings so I must not be THAT bad but I think in every thread I post I get called a troll and I think half the name callers just do it as soon as they see I have posted without so much as reading what I post. I've seen it happen to Gwar in YMDC.
I follow the 3rd rule of being an American to the "t". If I say something about my country, either positive or negative, I really don't give a damn if it offends someone or not. First Amendment. Only pansies are afraid to speak their mind out of fear of offending someone.
I'm not all bad tblock. I have no problem with other religions or even people who don't believe. I'm not a zealot. I don't push the Lutheran denomination of Christianity on other people. If you want to believe in Allah or Jehovah or "Bob the repair man" that is your choice in life. I also like to learn about other religions in my spare time. Right now I've been reading the Scientology books by L.R Hubbard and a lot of what the books say about life make sense, even to a Christian like me. I think Scientology gets a bad rap due to the zealots that exist and the fact that a lot of people hate Hollywood (I'm not gonna just pick on T. Cruise as he isn't the only celeb to embrace it) and see Scientology as non-sense because many people don't take Hollywood seriously.
Not saying Scientology is right or wrong but to me it makes sense. Maybe the books don't reveal everything but then again, going to church doesn't make me Christian. It's my belief in the Christian Bible that makes me Christian.
(It also helped the other night when I took a step away from Dakka, checked out Warseer and then played some WoW. That mellowed me quite a bit).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
FITZZ wrote: You forgot D. a pro gun stance in Fateweavers post is about as surprising as an " I love zombie movies " rant in one of my post...
Damn right!! Don't like it my guns would like to have a word with you.
I'm only being joking Fitzz. If the sig allowed more stuff I'd put up the other 12 "You might be an American" pronouncements.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/30 01:49:39
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/10/30 01:52:19
Subject: Re:What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Oldgrue wrote:I'm impressed that Religion keeps coming up though. Its like we all want to talk about it yet, being the internet, everyone wants to be right too much to let go enough for a good discussion.
I am not surprised. We all do want to talk about it. I want to talk about it. With reasonable people with unique points of view.
That is why I am trying to be an amateur MOD for this thread. I think we can talk about it without falling into the trap you pointed out.
:Crosses Fingers:
I am a damaged individual screaming random obscenities into the internet, sorry if I upset you.
"Dig what you dig. Don't take any fool's madness, just dig what you dig."
-Corey Taylor (Not Saying you're a fool )
"You guys are nuttier n fruitbats who just sucked a three week old pineapple." -Frazzled
2009/10/30 01:55:19
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Fateweaver:I found some of your opinions so shockingly different to what I know as normal that I thought you were a troll. I asked if you were one, because to be honest I couldn't understand your point of view or relate to it, really at all. Also, I was in a snarky mood. And I think patriotism is generally a very bad thing. I do read your posts though, generally the only ones I skip are the ones where there is a quoted bit of text, a rebuttal, then another quoted bit of text, then another rebuttal, ad nauseum. I just can't be arsed reading something with so little flow and coherance.
Dakka is WAAAY more conservative than anywhere else I've posted. In a lot of ways, I like that. It's good to be exposed to other ways of thinking, even if they wind you up and annoy you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/30 01:56:56
Fateweaver wrote:I really don't give a damn if it offends someone or not. First Amendment. Only pansies are afraid to speak their mind out of fear of offending someone.
I'm not all bad tblock. I have no problem with other religions or even people who don't believe. I'm not a zealot. I don't push the Lutheran denomination of Christianity on other people. If you want to believe in Allah or Jehovah or "Bob the repair man" that is your choice in life. I also like to learn about other religions in my spare time. Right now I've been reading the Scientology books by L.R Hubbard and a lot of what the books say about life make sense, even to a Christian like me. I think Scientology gets a bad rap due to the zealots that exist and the fact that a lot of people hate Hollywood (I'm not gonna just pick on T. Cruise as he isn't the only celeb to embrace it) and see Scientology as non-sense because many people don't take Hollywood seriously.
I am not saying you are bad. In the Obama thread I called you a troll, then you called me a troll for calling you a troll. I didn't mean to offend you by saying that. That is why I now say "Ask first", because we will offend people on the intarwebz. It is a fact. Read any youtube comments lately? At least Dakka isn't like that.
I just want this thread to be a safe place on the net where smart people can discuss smart things in a smart manner. I didn't mean to single you out, I was apologizing, really. I guess I should just say it: Sorry Fate.
I am just very annoyed that everyone here seems to dislike pity posts. I don't like them either, but because troll gets tossed around here more than the "N"-bomb is repeated in Oakland. We all think that we are entitled to our opinion, and that is true. But not at the cost of others... Wow, I am getting pretty preachy...
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2009/10/30 02:06:29
I am a damaged individual screaming random obscenities into the internet, sorry if I upset you.
"Dig what you dig. Don't take any fool's madness, just dig what you dig."
-Corey Taylor (Not Saying you're a fool )
"You guys are nuttier n fruitbats who just sucked a three week old pineapple." -Frazzled
2009/10/30 02:10:21
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
FITZZ wrote: You forgot D. a pro gun stance in Fateweavers post is about as surprising as an " I love zombie movies " rant in one of my post...
Damn right!! Don't like it my guns would like to have a word with you.
I'm only being joking Fitzz. If the sig allowed more stuff I'd put up the other 12 "You might be an American" pronouncements.
It's cool Fateweaver,I happen to strongly agree with you concerning the rights of citizens to own firearms,in fact you might say the little arsenal I own is where I put my "faith".
Now back to the religious discussion.....
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/30 02:11:27
I am both selfish and chaotic. I value self-gratification and control; I want to have things my way, preferably now. At best, I'm entertaining and surprising; at worst, I'm hedonistic and violent.
2009/10/30 02:15:57
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
It's all good. I value peoples opinions but I can't be arsed to care about what people who I will most likely never meet in real life care about me.
Sometimes having faith in Smith&Wesson or Taurus is not such a bad thing.
Apology accepted tblock and I'm sorry for coming off like a troll. I get really impassioned about things that offend me or piss me off (for sure check me out in any gun thread..lol) and sometimes I might go overboard. Just know that when someone offends me I for sure don't give a damn if I offend them back. You offend me, it's on like donkey kong.
--The whole concept of government granted and government regulated 'permits' and the accompanying government mandate for government approved firearms 'training' prior to being blessed by government with the privilege to carry arms in a government approved and regulated manner, flies directly in the face of the fundamental right to keep and bear arms.
“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”
2009/10/30 02:59:22
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Fateweaver wrote:
Not saying Scientology is right or wrong but to me it makes sense. Maybe the books don't reveal everything but then again, going to church doesn't make me Christian. It's my belief in the Christian Bible that makes me Christian.
Have you ever seen an e-meter? Or the claims that tomatoes can scream? Least of all the entheta filter for computers. Or maybe that the genetic history of man included Clams, Process R2-45, to name a few.
I'm just waiting to be declared suppressive though. Or a heretic....depends on if they're a church or not.
edit:no need for terrible grammar...except this is the internet. Fixed some.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/10/30 03:00:24
Special unique snowflake of unique specialness (+1/+3versus werewolves)
Alternatively I'm a magical internet fairy.
Pho indignation *IS* the tastiest form of angry!
2009/10/30 03:06:19
Subject: What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Fateweaver wrote:
Not saying Scientology is right or wrong but to me it makes sense. Maybe the books don't reveal everything but then again, going to church doesn't make me Christian. It's my belief in the Christian Bible that makes me Christian.
Have you ever seen an e-meter? Or the claims that tomatoes can scream? Least of all the entheta filter for computers. Or maybe that the genetic history of man included Clams, Process R2-45, to name a few.
Fateweaver wrote:
Not saying Scientology is right or wrong but to me it makes sense. Maybe the books don't reveal everything but then again, going to church doesn't make me Christian. It's my belief in the Christ that makes me Christian.
Tried to fix that for you
2009/10/30 03:14:25
Subject: Re:What is the point of Religion in the modern world?
Just joking. This doesn't really apply to me.
