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Here is a list that has done pretty well for me at 1850:

Vulkan (190)
Libby with Null Zone & The Avenger (100)
6 TH/SS Terminators, 1 LC Terminator in Land Raider Crusader with Extra Armor & Multi Melta (555)

10 man Tac Squad with Flamer, Multi Melta, Sgt with Melta Bombs & combi Melta in a Rhino with Dozer Blades (220)

10 man Tac Squad with Flamer, Multi Melta, Sgt with Melta Bombs & combi Melta in a Rhino with Dozer Blades (220)

3 Attack Bikes with multi meltas (150)

3 Attack Bikes with multi meltas (150)

1 Land Speeder with Multi Melta & heavy Flamer (70)

Thunderfire (100)

Predator with autocannon & heavy bolters (85)


Yes, if you blow up the Land Raider I'll be in big trouble. I screen it with Rhinos, Start it in Reserve, or pop smoke to try and limit the chances of that happening.

At 2000 points I'm trying a varition on the list with 3 vindicators instead of the Thunderfire & Dakka Predator. Things like Thunderfwolf Calvery make me want Strength 10 AP2 now. Plus Strength 10 Ordanance is still pretty good against most Mech builds.

Honestly I would like to see more Shrike lists than Vulcan lists his ability to give fleet is pretty incredible.

Fleet is great, but 10+ Multimeltas that are twin linked is pretty damn good as well. I think the thing that puts Vulkan over the top is the Thunderhammer master crafting, When you put it all together you get rerolls that can kill tanks & hordes and your hardest to kill close combat unit became even more effective. Hard to find anything better then that. Oh, and the special character is pretty badass himself.

Yeah i mean I agree he is awesomesauce. I've seen some shrike lists that were pretty keen as well though mostly involving Crusaders and Terms.

I still think a khan + tigurius list could be sweet...

2 squads of terminators outflanking in land raider redeemers...khan with the assault terminators, tigurius with the normal terminators.

Horst wrote:I still think a khan + tigurius list could be sweet...

2 squads of terminators outflanking in land raider redeemers...khan with the assault terminators, tigurius with the normal terminators.

But what's the rest of the army.
Suppose your outflankers arrive late in the game.
Then the enemy has plenty of time to take on your remaining force.

What remaining forces?

It's a one trick pony, not too hard to see coming and react to.

Lets total that up.

Khan on foot, Tiggy, 5 Ass Termy, 5 Tac Termy (hvy weapon one chain), two redeemers, MM EA = 1355 roughly.
How many points are we talking about?
With troops involved 5 Scouts, 5 Scouts, it makes it 1505.

So lets assume higher points 1850-1355, which is 495....you need troops...so lets say 2 rhino squads.
10 Tacs, Flamer, ML, Rhino: 205 x2 = 410, that leaves 85....a dakka pred or WW.

/shrug. I think it only looks a bit doable at 2000, and prob. more worth it at 2000+....but then that only means the opponent has more points as well, and other uber units/combos/stuff that starts on the board an kills what's there before it worries about 1000+ points that are not on the board turn 1 and possibly 2 (even with RR's).

I've been playing around with different Shrike lists, both on the table and in armybuilder. I keep coming up against a problem that I can't work out.

A Shrike list with a lot of scouts has a big advantage that, if you go first, you can alphastrike your opponent's valuable vehicles (which have not moved) with krak grenades & meltabombs. Also with thunderhammers in a termie unit that Shrike accompanies, or more krak grenades from an assault marine unit if you can't infiltrate inside of 18" with the terrain. If you go second, just outflank with your infiltrating units.

If you get second turn and your opponent deploys nothing, then no problem because you basically have two turns to move around the board and set up wherever you want, using your vehicles as mobile terrain to set up an ambush and take out whatever he gets from reserve piecemeal.

But if you get first turn and the opponent deploys nothing, it's better to be outflanking with the infiltrating units so they don't have to eat a turn of fire when his reserves come in? But you have to declare either outflanking or infiltrating normally *before* your opponent deploys, so you either have to make a lucky guess or just always declare infiltrating normally?

That's the bit I can't figure out.

[edit]
Wait, that's not right. If you get second turn and opponent deploys nothing, you have *one* turn to move around, but you also have the advantage of knowing beforehand that he deployed nothing so you can make the infiltrate/outflank decision with that knowledge already.

Whereas if you get first turn and opponent deploys nothing, you have two turns to maneuver and set up the ambush. Right?

Either way, though, it seems like you need a really solid, efficient & cheap firebase with durable long-range shootiness (dakka preds, rifleman dreads, maybe devs or thunderfire or a whirlwind) to destroy the opponent's mobility so your forward troops can pounce.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, contrary to popular opinion, I feel like a single landraider transporting termies is not a good mesh with a Shrike list for the same reason it doesn't work for Eldar--because of the ability to keep units in reserve and deploy nothing. Any decent opponent is not going to fall for the 21-26" charge.

If the opponent is coming in from reserve and your LR is anywhere near the opponent's board edge, he can throw all available melta weapons at it when they come on and take it out in a single turn. If you hold the LR back, he knows where the it is already when he enters and can either throw up a speedbump unit, or just keep his valuable units out of the 26" reach of the assault, then bring the melta weapons to bear as soon as you're extended and vulnerable.

Either way you lose a landraider without it accomplishing its mission, your termies are easy to strand, and all the big long-range guns you didn't buy for those 250+ points are just not on the table for you to use.

My issue with the scout spam with shrike to hit vehicles is: it's a one trick pony and only occurs if you get first and the opponent doesn't seize.

You have the option to do other deployments if other situations arise, but those are not ideal for scout squad en mass.

So it's a one trick pony when things do go your way.
It's not hard to have an infantry screen, or even transport screen.

Scouts aren't exactly 'competitive' from what I've heard seen on several forums. There are even some haters.

I'm not talking about the one-trick version of a scout list, Sanctjud. That's obviously weak.

I'm talking about a Shrike list with a couple of units of scouts (or one combat-squadded) equipped with bp&ccw, krak grenades, meltabombs on the sergeant, plus a unit or two of assault termies and/or assault marines, 2-3 tac squads in rhinos, and the rest in long-range, durable firepower.

Well, it's a one trick unit.
So that's around 150ish points down.

Then you have tacs and Termies and/or assaultmarines, which are a good chuck of a list, which begs the question what points limit?

What sort of durable long range fire power are you talking about?

Has anyone ever seen/or heard/or have themselves drop poded TCs?
It's a concept i'm struggling to get my head around.

TC? TFC?
Thunderfire Cannon right?

I think the pod is there for 2 reasons:
1. Podding onto good terrain in Dawn of War deployment games.
2. Manipulating what comes in and when, as you increase the pod numbers with pods that have no passengers.

Both those reasons actually lump into one reason to use them.
Otherwise, don't.

I did mean Thunderfire Cannon, yes.

I agree, taking pods on them to dictate *useful pod's arrival is well used.
Tbh i'm surprised they even have Pod option: i don't see how that fits into the fluff?

Techmarines with their new shiney Nerf Pew Pew Cannon need to arrive in style with their blinged out pod...with the initials TFC on the side.

Making all the horde armies think that it's a pod full of Techy Fried Chicken and they start running at the pod bunching up for the TFC to bring the 'thunder' and 'fire' on the horde with the 'cannon'.

Sanctjud wrote:What remaining forces?

It's a one trick pony, not too hard to see coming and react to.

Lets total that up.

Khan on foot, Tiggy, 5 Ass Termy, 5 Tac Termy (hvy weapon one chain), two redeemers, MM EA = 1355 roughly.
How many points are we talking about?
With troops involved 5 Scouts, 5 Scouts, it makes it 1505.

So lets assume higher points 1850-1355, which is 495....you need troops...so lets say 2 rhino squads.
10 Tacs, Flamer, ML, Rhino: 205 x2 = 410, that leaves 85....a dakka pred or WW.

/shrug. I think it only looks a bit doable at 2000, and prob. more worth it at 2000+....but then that only means the opponent has more points as well, and other uber units/combos/stuff that starts on the board an kills what's there before it worries about 1000+ points that are not on the board turn 1 and possibly 2 (even with RR's).

Well, at the larger point level, 1850, you can squeeze in 2 Rhino squads and a Dakka Pred.
If you start with those units at the board, the Rhinos will go down early in the game.

I to am a Redeemer fan over the Crusader, but for more of what it can bring to the army list. The Redeemer is the way to get around Jetseerers and their turboboost. That one tank keeps the almighty Eldar from turboboosting into my face with a rerollable 3+ cover save. It get's around the cover and armor and into the weaker invulnerable save. Against others I almost always move 12" and fire the MM I have attached with it, but those str 6 ap 3 cannons are my bike protection.

Well….
Jetbikes are on big flying bases, so you won’t catch that many.
In addition, it’s a re-rollable 4++…so with low number of hits and essentially a midway between power and termy armor… I don’t see it as “‘Eldar council’ biker’” protection.

It’s good against shining spears and GJB…but /shrug to those units turboing near the effective range of a LRR.

The Redeemer really only works better against jetseers if it can get more than 3 units under the template and if you can fire the assault cannon.

This is ofc considering the unit has guide on it. Without guide you need 5+ under the template (and the AC firing) in order to do better with the flamer templates.

Ofc each has a different function. My Crusaders usually deliver my TH/SS terminators and I like being able to fire the majority of my weapons each turn while moving up.

Each obviously has its merits, but I prefer the Crusader for its versatility. Relying on torrent of fire which eventually will kill anything.

I agree on the Jetseers. Jetseers are no worry to me as all my stuff is mounted so they have to bust open my tanks first, which means they haven't turbo boasted or are prime to be counter assaulted. Null Zone versus Fortune really cripples that unit too (and it's worth the perils of the warp to pull that off).

The Eldar Player in my area (who won every RTT for the first half of this year before he retired from competitive play) usually runs the foot council + Eldrad + Yriel + Wave Serpent.

I agree with Timmah, he has stated all my reasons why I prefer the Crusader. The idea of moving a Redeemer 12" each turn doesn't fit my playstyle. I would rather be moving 6" a turn but shooting all my guns. Assault Terminators shouldn't be charging anything until turn 4 anyways. I can understand the desire for an alpha strike with Multiple Land Raiders but there are too many things that can deal with Land Raiders at close range to make the tactic viable for me.

I'm glad you mentioned the 6"... I was a little concerned that Timmah was moving 12" and firing everything, which of course, you can't because it's not a fast vehicle.

Sanctjud wrote:Well….
Jetbikes are on big flying bases, so you won’t catch that many.
In addition, it’s a re-rollable 4++…so with low number of hits and essentially a midway between power and termy armor… I don’t see it as “‘Eldar council’ biker’” protection.

It’s good against shining spears and GJB…but /shrug to those units turboing near the effective range of a LRR.

I've had good success with it this way. Jetseers group together to attack vehicles and the Redeemer can get them then. I only want to get past their saves and into the invulnerables so a Null Zone can hammer them. I also enjot driving the Redeemer around and flaming Orks and Bloodcrushers. I don't want to move 6" against those armies at the HtH attacls can bring me down.

The hurricane bolters of the Crusader just don't do it for me against those units. Maybe it's my playstyle. When I play the Crusader I get to defensive with it. I try to get those bolter shots and it's like 'whoohoo I just spent 260pts for 6 bolter shots'. Drive the Redeemer into the heart of the non melta enemy, drop your payload and flame away. I mostly use the MM and assault cannon anyway. Waht I shoot at with those units and Hurricane bolters don't always help.

A great tactic is to drive the Redeemer near the rear hatch of a rhino/razorback, pop the transport with another unit and decimate what comes out. I prefer the flame template to the bolters for that. I have used it to toast many a Black Templar player who is coming right for my lines anyway. I guess it's mostly anti-bike (Eldar and marine), anti-Ork and anti-Daemon. though. That's why I use the Redeemer.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to use the Redeemer over the Crusader. If you like that one better, then play it. I know I usually feel a little better seeing a Crusader on the other side of the table than a Redeemer.

I don't know about you, but combo charges usually let them keep spread out... I generally never commit until something squishy or two are out of their transports to keep me locked.

/shrug.

And should I win combat and be out in the open, I'd have a consolidation move.

Concerning Land Raider versus Blood Crushers I can only relate past experiences.

Played a Redeemer against a list fielding a unit of 4 Blood Crushers, I flamed them twice and got a melta shot that took care of them by turn 5, but my other shooting couldn't keep up with his saves.

Played the list I posted earlier in this thread at a local RTT this Saturday and played the same player, but he fielded 2 units of 5. I held everything in reserve, and on my turn two the Standard Raider, Land Raider Crusader, and two Dreadnoughts with Multimeltas showed up. Between 2 Twin-linked Lascannons, Twin-linked Assault Cannon, 3 Twin-linked Multimeltas, 12 Twin-linked Bolters, and 2 Twin Linked Heavy Flamers with Null Zone, I was able to take all five down in a shooting phase. I got lucky a little becuase he failed a few armor saves.

I think the disconnect here is when you see a Str. 6 AP 3 flamer torching targets of opportunity, I see a 260 point tank firing a single weapon (because more often then not you moved 6" or 12" to get into position), well maybe an assault cannon or Multimelta if you move 6" and position yourself right. With a Crusader, it is literally no better then the Redeemer at 12" movement, but has much more shooting potential at 6" movement with greater range.

I think it comes down to, what do you prefer, I prefer putting hits on a unit over 2 turns with a Crusader over trying to rely on my luck for one good flaming.

I am not dissing the Redeemer, I own all three variants and each Land Raider shows up in different builds. I am currently considering running a counts-as KAAAHN!!! list for this months RTT, and an outflanking Redeemer sounds tasty.

1 Titan


'Nuff said

At 2500 points I take one crusader & one redeemer. However, there is something to be said of the look on a player's face when Vulkan and 7 Terminators disembark out of a tank.

I would say it has alot to do with your role you need the tank to play. and i think characters and their abilities play a huge role there in:

Vulken - crusader's better
Khan - redeemer's better



*note khan option is much cheaper points-wise.