Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Killkrazy wrote :- The ammo is carried by powder monkeys but they are never shown in the artwork.

Makes sense, but of course they would have to be genetically enhanced super Powder Monkeys (Adeptus Simian) a Space Marine would not take a Bolter Mag from a normal Monkey....

Plus i believe the Slanneshi Marines did some right weird stuff with their powder Monkeys.....here Monkey, Monkey lets play hide the sausage!

THAT WAS ONE TIME AND I WAS DRUNK!!!!

LOL!!!11!!!!1!!!!!11111!!1!!!1!!1!1!!!11!!!!!!!111
Excuses... I say.

The backpack is the suits power supply for the suit as well as life support for places with no oxygen.

But I think I read book about SM "tech" and there is extra space in the backpack.

After doing some reading there is supposedly some room there to hold magazines, and as previously mentioned they work as a team. There's some sort of network they're connected to to allow them always know where a magazine should be and such

Ammo goes in the enemy.

Besides, when you have a machine gun that fires mini rockets, I'm pretty sure you'd be hard pressed NOT to shave your head and run screaming into battle

That sir is damn epic. i might have to sig that..

My theory is that they are desendents of solid snake and thu can carry all their equipment and ammo using a sliding box bar ;p

Superscope wrote:

Besides, when you have a machine gun that fires mini rockets, I'm pretty sure you'd be hard pressed NOT to shave your head and run screaming into battle

That sir is damn epic. i might have to sig that..

My theory is that they are desendents of solid snake and thu can carry all their equipment and ammo using a sliding box bar ;p

You know you want to.

If they're the descendants of Solid Snake, they have infinite ammo thanks to their Infinite Ammo bandanas

Or, like Snake as well, they have a hardcore weapons dealer/pimp/drug dealer.

http://www.philipsibbering.com/WH40KRP/40K__10_Bolter.shtml
if you go down to the ammo stores section this guy gives a pretty good explanation of what he thinks is going on.
overall this guys stuff for space marines is pretty interesting but his descriptions of the IG are no good IMO.

Just assume that the gun never runs out of ammo. It may not be realistic but it will save your sanity.

I think there is a genentic modification to the SM that if they need ammo the can just eat metal and crap ammo out.

40k is a futuristic fantasy game. They have unlimited ammo in one clip

I thought those were some kind of vents? Maybe I'm wrong though. Still it seems like a difficult way to reload when they good just be on the belt.

All the tac marines have pouches on their belts. I'd assume ammo comes from there.

Also, Space Marines don't need extra ammo. If the enemy isn't dead after the first clip is expended... Exterminatus.

Right, tell that to the advancing sea of nid warriors...

The entire concept of SM ammo is flawed.
Marines are geneered for extended field work (eat anything, learn by eating, no sleep etc etc) but their main weapon are designed to be a 10 second use thing. Another of GWs fun slipups.

The rounds they use are huge, they would weigh in at around 200gr each making one bolter magazine weigh 6-8Kg. That is a LOT.
Now modern special forces carry around 300 rounds each, 1000 for the SAW support and all those rounds are meant to be used pretty much as a means to escape if the squad is detected.
A short intense firefight while withdrawing.

Imagine a space marine carrying 10 spare magazines, doable even if the guy would be loaded with spares all over his armour.
He would add a grown mans body weight in ammunition alone.
Imagine the heavy bolter dev support marine with his already 50Kg heavy bolter, he would have to carry around an extra 250Kg of ammo alone.

The best defence vs space marines is thus to have a lot of numbers and/or have a stronghold situated in a swamp or marshland or in buildings on top of stairs.
The poor marines would sink to their necks while trying to approach and any form of rough terrain would be impossible to cover.
And if we talk about a commander with botler + ammo and a jump pack I would certainly want to see him get of the ground.

There is simply NO way what so ever marines can hold the line against enemies like nids or fight anything other then short firefights with the big rounds their bolters require. Common guardsmen would be far more effective in holding against nids since they can all carry far more rounds or energy packs and pour our far more fire then the marines will ever be able to.

For a SM force to function in any battle that is the slightest protracted they would require constand drop pods deployed at their positions loaded with ammo and the rhinos accompanying them wouldnt carry passengers, they would carry extra ammunition.
Just theke the fluff about Shrike and his squads shredding orks 2 years behind their lines. I wonder, with what, rocks? Thier bolter ammo would have ran out the very first firefight, ork guns dont work in their hands and the jungles arent exactly crawling with mining facilities, smeltries, chemical plants and logistics to ferry all that material of to bolter ammunition factories.
*DUH*


The perfect solution would be if space marines came with a beefed up S4 hellgun since it is directly plugged into the backpack energy generator and would in practical terms mean a space marine would never run out of ammo (thus save tremendous amounts of weight and logistics). A few extra batteries would provide for hundreds of shots while the backpack is constantly recharging the empty cells.
But hey, this is GW we are talking about, the same guys who created the most powerful tank in the imperium, the landraider and gave it the same armour protection as the WW2 sherman.

Space Marines come with magazines that you can attach to their legs...

Lol, attach 10 magazines to their legs and see how that would look and work

The perfect solution would be if space marines came with a beefed up S4 hellgun since it is directly plugged into the backpack energy generator and would in practical terms mean a space marine would never run out of ammo

Consider that idea stolen :p

vodo40k wrote:

The perfect solution would be if space marines came with a beefed up S4 hellgun since it is directly plugged into the backpack energy generator and would in practical terms mean a space marine would never run out of ammo

Consider that idea stolen :p

Or, better yet, load them out with Multilaz0rz

Raxmei wrote:

Dark wrote:Well, actual soldiers tend to carry up to 3 spare clips, some 4, but only if they tape anoter clip to the one that's loaded on the gun.

Fun fact of the day.

What army and time period? Modern US soldiers carry six spare magazines. No tape required, the pouches that come with the standard load bearing equipment are meant to hold that much.

I figure that 40k miniatures and artwork don't quite look like the warriors they represent. Little bits of kit that an actual soldier would need but are not terribly exciting get played down in favor of making the model look good. Space Marines probably do have capacious ammo pouches somewhere, but modeling them accurately would make them less pretty.

I had seven full mags (one in my M4 and six on my vest) not counting the five for my pistol (one in the M9 and two in the mag pouch on the holster and two more on my vest). In addition, there were ten more mags in an ammo-can at my feet in the 1025. Not counting all the extra ammo still in the cans for the 240 and 249s, grenades, flares, smokes...etc etc etc.
Most of my team carried about the same or more.

I think that GW doesn't mould all the extra crap on their figs for the same reason you don't see people re-load in the movies.

When I was playing Time Crisis in the arcade I never saw where the ammo came from, I just kept on shooting!!

But this is warhammer, not some stupid imaginary computer game....eh?

I'm going to try to litter my battlefield with loads of ammo crates and spare clips.

I'd agree with some of the comments above, that if the marine isn't carrying the extra clips in his magic backpack then its in the transport rhino/droppod/thunderhawk he came in on. And if its not there its going to get dropped in. I reckon the marines would booby trap their ammo resupplies so that if an enemy tries to utilise it it explodes in their face!

You guys should listen to the guys who are in the military on this one, they would know best.

Also, wouldn't bolters only be able to hold about 10-15 rounds, considering the size of the bolts (or what I could infer from the size of the barrel) and the size of the magazine (sickle magazine, for those who are wondering)? thats very little ammo, even if they had 20 magazines on them.

GundamMerc wrote:You guys should listen to the guys who are in the military on this one, they would know best.

Also, wouldn't bolters only be able to hold about 10-15 rounds, considering the size of the bolts (or what I could infer from the size of the barrel) and the size of the magazine (sickle magazine, for those who are wondering)? thats very little ammo, even if they had 20 magazines on them.

As well as the different types of ammunition, there have also been several different types of magazines. The standard magazine is the sickle-mag.

* Sickle Magazine: The standard-issue magazine, seen on most bolter patterns. The magazine's shape is slightly curved to take up less space. Carries 20 to 30 bolts.

* Straight Magazine: A straight version of the sickle magazine. Holds less ammunition (only 10 to 20 bolts), but is easier to load in more intense situations.

* Drum Magazine: Drum magazines are a relatively rare sight in the 41st Millenium. This is due to their unreliability; drum magazines have an unfortunate tendency to jam. However, drums can carry 40, 60 or even 100 bolts, negating the need to reload as often. Despite the frequent jamming, they still brook some favor with local Hive Gangs or militia. They are also frequently seen on Storm Bolters or in brutal assaults, where running empty in a firefight can mean certain death.

40K 3rd BGB confirms these amounts. Bolts are also officially .75 Caliber.

* Sickle Magazine: The standard-issue magazine, seen on most bolter patterns. The magazine's shape is slightly curved to take up less space. Carries 20 to 30 bolts.

Wrong!
The curved shape of the magazine is not to increase the amount of cartridges.
It is curved to decrease the chance of the feed jamming up during fire.

The tip of the cartridge is thinner then the base (propellant) thus the rounds stacked in a magazine will naturally "bend" towards the points thus creating a natural curved line.
If the magazine does not follow that curvature the rounds risk being jammed during rapid feed.

See, you learn new stuff every day



As for the ammo issue, its simply a hopless flaw on GWs part, the marines, if they are supposed to do what they do, can not function using bolt rounds. They are simply left with to few rounds and the weight-to-fire ratio would be the worst in human existence.
It is also far from opssible to constantly re-equip the marines out on missions or in the field. Imagine if enemy ships control the orbit/sky or they are left or stranded on a prolonged mission or simply attacking/defending against overwhelming numbers?

Then we have the issue of logistics and materiel.
A modern day special forces soldier can easily shoot close to a thousand rounds just on his daily practice to stay sharp. I imagine marines being far superior to "normal" humans and also train way more so lets just say the average marine shoots a thousand rounds on his daily practice.
Time that by a thousand marines and you´ll end up with a million bolt rounds wasted per DAY.
And bolt rounds is described as being very rare and expensive things made with rare materials and tech.

So to imagine a standard chapter going through over 200 000Kg of bolt rounds PER DAY just for practice (not to mention all the heavier ordnance and heavy bolter ammo for all vehicles and heavy weapon practice shooting)
not to mention hos much ammo is run through while not in practice (being in combat)...
well its pretty much laughable to say the least!

GW, or some good author really ought to take a look at this and write something explanatory about it, hehe.

Platuan, i was talking of what they looked like they have the capacity for.

@Pyriel: I wonder if they have like an ancient virtual training thing that's never mentioned, or if they, being in some cases warriors before being indoctrinated, already have an almost natural ability to use the weapon. Plus, if the marines using bolters have been using them for hundreds of years, why practice.
I've always wondered, as a side note, how many rounds can one clip hold. It seems that it'd be lucky to fit 10, unless I'm overstating the round size. 20 sounds to much just because when you look at how big the size of the hole the bullets fly through, and then see the clip size, it just doesn't seem to add up.
Granted, one bolter shot can obliterate most enemies, still, how could it stand to horde armies.

Pyriel- wrote:

* Sickle Magazine: The standard-issue magazine, seen on most bolter patterns. The magazine's shape is slightly curved to take up less space. Carries 20 to 30 bolts.

Wrong!
The curved shape of the magazine is not to increase the amount of cartridges.
It is curved to decrease the chance of the feed jamming up during fire.

The tip of the cartridge is thinner then the base (propellant) thus the rounds stacked in a magazine will naturally "bend" towards the points thus creating a natural curved line.
If the magazine does not follow that curvature the rounds risk being jammed during rapid feed.

See, you learn new stuff every day

You do realize that what I posted is verbatim from GW fluff, right, and that that is the exact reason THEY give for it?

I also DO happen to know how real magazines work, thanks. Complain to GW if you have a problem with it.

Platuan4th wrote: Complain to GW if you have a problem with it.

and we know how that will turn out.

@garret: You'd have better luck just dividing by zero. They'd just go and drop all the xenos codexes to fix the error, then people cry.

SMs do not make sense if you take the fluff at face value.

There are two different ways they do make sense.

1. Propaganda
Assume the fluff is just propaganda and actually SMs are a fairly common, slightly special force not like the SAS but more like Paras.

2. Super Special Forces
Assume SMs are the equivalent of the SAS. They only fight in small unit actions such as recon and sabotage missions. All the fluff pictures of them fighting hordes of Orks or Nids are just propaganda.