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Exact copy of wording:

Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.

When you move a SM with a heavy weapon his having moved negates his ability to shoot until his next movement phase. The same is true here. If you read it word for word it says nothing about the disembarkation being limited to the movement phase. It just says that you can't disembark if you move over 12". That would mean to me that you can not disembark until your next turns movement phase when everything resets to original status.

I don't see how anyone can think that they can work the English in anyway to limit the disembarkation restriction to the movement phase.

The issue is immobilized = destroyed during that movement phase.

As I understand it.

Norseman, how long does that restriction on disembarking last?

Because the rules doesn't expressly tell us, now do they? The fact that you have to make up a rule telling us when to "reset" is quite telling in itself.

How am I "making up a rule" When your turn starts everything resets to original status, does it not? You can move your stuff again, you can shoot again. There are states that a imply that you do not get a reset like being broken or pinned, but those things are checked at the beginning of your turn. All i was saying is that you don't get to shoot every 3rd turn your options are refreshed every turn. I can't find the language to describe what i am trying to say better.

If you do a certain kind of movement the rules associated with that movement last until your next movement.

Just like getting a special save for moving. It last until your next movement phase where your options are refreshed.

Exact copy of wording:

Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase.

Seriously, if youre having problems understanding this you should go back to school for some english reading comprehension classes.

If a vehicle moves flat out, and is destroyed in the opponents shooting or assault phase, they are not destroyed, as the vehicle did not move fast in THAT movement phase.

Maybe it's just me, but i find it difficult to move my vehicles flat out in another players movement phase? The only way to argue that they would be is if you completely ignore the wording of the rule ....

Norseman wrote:How am I "making up a rule" When your turn starts everything resets to original status, does it not? You can move your stuff again, you can shoot again. There are states that a imply that you do not get a reset like being broken or pinned, but those things are checked at the beginning of your turn. All i was saying is that you don't get to shoot every 3rd turn your options are refreshed every turn. I can't find the language to describe what i am trying to say better.

Its OK. You are giving it a damn good try.
You are making up a rule unless you can quote the rule and pagenumber.
We can move our models every movement phase because the rules tells us that we can. The same applies to shooting.
The rules tell us when states like Pinned and Broken changes/can change.
The rules also tells us for how long the limitations on disembarking lasts (ie. "that movement phase")

If you do a certain kind of movement the rules associated with that movement last until your next movement.

That is an assumption on your part. An assumption not supported by the rules. If that assumption is indeed supported by the rules, then please direct me to the relevant page.

Just like getting a special save for moving. It last until your next movement phase where your options are refreshed.

It last untill the next movement phase because the rules tells us that it does. Or rather it tells us to check how fast the vehicle moved in its last movement phase and see wether it qualifies for a save.

kill dem stunties

Exact copy of wording:

Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved (or is going to move) flat out in that Movement phase.

Seriously, if youre having problems understanding this you should go back to school for some english reading comprehension classes.

If a vehicle moves flat out, and is destroyed in the opponents shooting or assault phase, they are not destroyed, as the vehicle did not move fast in THAT movement phase.

Maybe it's just me, but i find it difficult to move my vehicles flat out in another players movement phase? The only way to argue that they would be is if you completely ignore the wording of the rule ....

Are you kidding me...

Read the sentence again. Without the pause for the brackets.

Passengers may not embark onto, or disembark from, a fast vehicle if it has moved flat out, in that Movement phase.

A player only gets one movement phase per turn, so it is saying if you moved fast in THAT turn you cant disembark.

Look at the sentence structure...In no way is disembarkation and "that movement phase" linked in anyway in that sentence.

The link is ..."in that movement phase." is acting on "Fast vehicle moved flat out," not on the "Passengers may not embark onto, or disembark from," section of the sentence.

You are making up a rule unless you can quote the rule and pagenumber.

I REALLY shouldn't have gotten into this at work. I really do not have the time or the books in front of me to do this justice. Steelmage99 you are making a good argument but i think it's a case of each of us "knowing" that we are right and neither one of us is going to back down without concrete proof, which I do not believe actually exists. This is one thing that I truly hate about GW.

I will do some research and get back to you.

So then, the following player doesn't get a movement phase? the rule in question does not state YOUR movement phase, it states that movement phase, once it becomes the next players turn their movement phase becomes THAT movement phase,and not the movement phase that the vehicle moved flat out.

Or are you saying their movement phase doesnt exist?

I don't get how people are not understanding THAT movement phase.

I can't believe I'm about to do this; however, THAT is the beginning of a restrictive clause followed by information pertinent to and identifying what is restricted.

When the word THAT is used in such a context the phrase immediately after it is giving you specific information.

In this case, the phrase THAT movement phase is a restrictive phrase that indicates a particular movement phase, specifically the phase during which the vehicle moved. Once THAT phase is complete and another begins, the affects described before the restrictive phrase expire.

You may all now fling your rotten eggs at me. I care not one bit as I feel dirty enough just talking about grammar. ick.

^^^^ exactly, and the other phase that begins, is the opponents movement phase.

I don't get how people are not understanding THAT movement phase.

I can't believe I'm about to do this; however, THAT is the beginning of a restrictive clause followed by information pertinent to and identifying what is restricted.

When the word THAT is used in such a context the phrase immediately after it is giving you specific information.

In this case, the phrase THAT movement phase is a restrictive phrase that indicates a particular movement phase, specifically the phase during which the vehicle moved. Once THAT phase is complete and another begins, the affects described before the restrictive phrase expire.

You may all now fling your rotten eggs at me. I care not one bit as I feel dirty enough just talking about grammar. ick.

I agree in part.

"That" in that sentence is ONLY referring to the phase in which the vehicles moved. HOWEVER that is not what I am arguing. I am arguing that, the that part of the sentence is only referring to the phase in which the movement happened, and is not in any way, eliminating the lack of ability to disembark. However I have to find the proof. Which I can't do at work.

@agnosto ...Excellent! I vote for more of you on YMDC.

Well, there is a rule against using grammar as an argument in YMDC, however I feel it is highly appropriate in this instance.

Is it too crazy to suggest that the limitation on embarking and disembarking after having moved flat out is only for doing so voluntarily?

Being forced to do so after a Destroyed- Wrecked or a Destroyed- Explodes seems to be a completely different context from voluntary disembarkation. You know, maybe the vehicle being destroyed overrides the prohibition?

It just seems that by simply following the rules on what to do if your vehicle is wrecked as they are written would avoid an awful lot of needless quibbling.

Monster Rain wrote:Is it too crazy to suggest that the limitation on embarking and disembarking after having moved flat out is only for doing so voluntarily?

It is not crazy, it is just not backed by any rules. There are not stipulations on "may not disembark" in that context.

I submitted it to the Adepticon FAQ team... Lets see if they answer me.

This confuses me. Once it has moved flat out in a movement phase, you will never get to a point where it has not done so.

Sorry the language was maybe not clear. I mean you can not disembark until the situation of having moved in "that Movement phase" is no longer present. i.e. in the opponents movement phase or later you would have no longer moved flat out in that movement phase.

Is this clear now?

Anything after that movement phase, including the subsequent (shooting) phase would then change things. I do not see the need to wait for the next turn, even, for that restriction to be resolved.

That, I think, coincides with what you meant.

Anything after that movement phase, including the subsequent (shooting) phase would then change things. I do not see the need to wait for the next turn, even, for that restriction to be resolved.

You could debate that during the shooting phase the situation of having "moved flat out that movement phase" would still exist if you are assuming the "that movement phase" only applies to the moving flat out and not the disembarking restriction.

However by the following players movement phase there is now way you could have possibly moved flat out that movement phase.

So whether the "that Movement phase" applies to just the Moving flat out part of the sentence or the entire sentence (the English is not 100% clear) by the following players movement phase the restriction is clearly lifted.

Essentially the argument Norseman is making still means the restriction only applies during your own turn. So the argument (for which there is not a clear resolution in RaW) is whether the restriction applies during your shooting and assault phases. However the only possible way for your fast vehicle to be destroyed would be in the shooting phase by a scattering blast weapon which I think is rare enough to make the argument moot and agree to sort that out when it arises with a dice roll or agree before hand a house rule.

To be honest I'd say RaI would be that the restriction is only for voluntary disembarkation and above is hence moot.

Moot? It was put forward for discussion, indeed.
The shooting phase is not in that movement phase, however.

The shooting phase is not in that movement phase, however.

Whilst this is true the statement that "the model has moved flat out in that movement phase" would still be true. Hence the restriction that they cannot disembark would still hold.

Essentially I'll break it down to if statements:

Firstly your interpretation.

IF the model has moved flat out that movement phase

THEN no disembark that movement phase.

Or the other interpretation:

IF the model has moved flat out that movement phase

THEN no disembark.

So in the immediately following shooting phase the if statement is still true and the restriction can still be applied. As it is for the following assault phase. However in the opponent's movement phase the IF statement is no longer true hence the restriction is lifted. Whilst in your interpretation the restriction is also limited to the movement phase.

It all depends how you break down the sentence (I've removed the bracket or is going to move part as it is not really key to this discussion and removing it gives greater clarity):

(Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle if it has moved flat out) in that Movement phase.

Or

Passengers may not embark onto or disembark from a fast vehicle (if it has moved flat out in that Movement phase).

To be fair, I understand what you are saying, but do not see the sentence as vague.

Phase and turn are delineated. There is no language that would indicate anything other than the specific movement phase involved carries a restriction. As was mentioned by others, there are rules that do so.

There is no language that would indicate anything other than the specific movement phase involved carries a restriction.

I argue there is no language that states the restriction is bound to the movement phase. The language can be taken 2 ways the movement phase refers only to when the model has moved flat out or the movement phase applies to the entire sentence including the restriction.

To be honest the way it is written can be taken either way. There is no way you can say the "that movement phase" definitely applies to the disembark restriction it is simply not there in the language.

However as I've pointed out this is not hugely important as the restriction is clearly removed by the opponents turn either way. There is no way around that at the moment under RaW. Whilst the vehicle can't be destroyed in it's own assault phase if it moved flat out and can only be destroyed in the shooting phase by straw blast markers which is going to be pretty rare.

kirsanth wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Is it too crazy to suggest that the limitation on embarking and disembarking after having moved flat out is only for doing so voluntarily?

It is not crazy, it is just not backed by any rules. There are not stipulations on "may not disembark" in that context.

I would say that the rules for disembarking after a Destroyed- Wrecked result on the Vehicle Damage Table are the stipulation on "may not disembark."

Norseman wrote:I submitted it to the Adepticon FAQ team... Lets see if they answer me.

\
As I believe I posted earlier, the INAT has indeed already addressed this question:

RB.70H.01 – Q: If a transport vehicle is „Destroyed‟ in the same movement phase it is declared to be moving „flat out‟ (when ramming another vehicle, for example) are the models onboard destroyed?
A: Yes, in this case all models onboard count as being destroyed [clarification].

Notice the "same movement phase" clause..........?

don_mondo wrote:

Norseman wrote:I submitted it to the Adepticon FAQ team... Lets see if they answer me.

\
As I believe I posted earlier, the INAT has indeed already addressed this question:

RB.70H.01 – Q: If a transport vehicle is „Destroyed‟ in the same movement phase it is declared to be moving „flat out‟ (when ramming another vehicle, for example) are the models onboard destroyed?
A: Yes, in this case all models onboard count as being destroyed [clarification].

Notice the "same movement phase" clause..........?

While I am definitely in the "only destroyed if it's still the same movement phase" camp, your example here is using faulty logic. Just because the INAT faq covers what happens during the same movement phase, it does not specify what happens after that movement phase.

They cannot disembark. It moved flat out. You were right.

Talk about reading the first post and making yourself look like an ass by posting without reading through the thread.