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The Microsoft people are making up tall tales about Apple. Microsoft is indeed a monopoly. It has nothing to do with having other crappy products to sell.

In a recent survey over 90% of the people surveyed said they would never buy a Windows phone.

Windows is slow, gets lots of viruses, locks up and often must be re installed. It is the worst operating system ever.

Everything I have said about Apple is true.

G

Those people surveyed worked for Apple

I wouldn't buy a Windows phone. Vista was extremely bad at handling memory causing it to be heaps slow (Windows 7 imporved this apparently). But, yeah they do lock up a bit but they don't require all that much reinstallation in my experience. They do if you manage to screw it up heaps and that tends to happen seeing as the system files aren't even hidden >_>

The only reason Mac doesn't get viruses is because that the percentage of them is so low compaired to Windows it is simply not worth making a virus for it. Not that they won't exist, just that they'll be fairly rare. In my opinion Windows XP was the best Windows.

I don't work for apple and have to remain unbiased as I'm currently in a Networking course. If I decided one is absolutely crap and ignore it chances are it's going to make problems later

Other than that I don't really care, as long as it works I'm fine with it. Sure I'll put up with trying to fix it to a point though. They make up tales about each other, that's just an old part of marketing I guess. If Apple sells computers/OS Microsoft is technically not a Monopoly, they simply just have a higher percentage of the market share.

More games, easier to use OS plus the PC can be upgraded more easily, it not being one of those pre-fab things where everything is crammed in just right for the perfect yuppie design.

I really wish you guys would stop talking about things you don't ever handle. The macs aren't pre fabricated, and mac towers give a good bit of room for parts swapping. Compare that to any el cheapo dell or acer which solders in parts to prevent you from upgrading and they look even better. As for win7 being easier to use? Not particularly, it's not hard by any stretch, but configuring things like home networks or additional hardware is a bit of a chore by comparison.

No one wins in OS wars, ever.

It's like the console wars. People pick their favorites without having regularly handled the competition.

The Microsoft people are making up tall tales about Apple. Microsoft is indeed a monopoly. It has nothing to do with having other crappy products to sell.

No, thats not what the word monopoly means.

mo⋅nop⋅o⋅ly  [muh-nop-uh-lee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices. Compare duopoly, oligopoly.

They don't have exclusive control, nor can they control pricing.

Windows is slow, gets lots of viruses, locks up and often must be re installed. It is the worst operating system ever.

No, it's comparably fast, does get a lot of virus' doesn't really lock up often unless you're bad with security tasks, and doesn't often need to be reinstalled. Also the worst operating system ever is linux. Incredibly secure, it's also incomprehensible gak.

The only reason Mac doesn't get viruses is because that the percentage of them is so low compaired to Windows it is simply not worth making a virus for it.

Actually it's because the unix code is simply much more secure. Thats always been the fallback quote of people that don't understand how computer software works. It's just not true.

No Microsoft is effectively a monopoly.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:No Microsoft is effectively a monopoly.

G

No, it really isn't. That word has a specific meaning, and it doesn't qualify any more.

What percentage of computers in the US use an MS OS? that says it all really. According to wikki.answers.com it's well over 90%. I'm not pulling this out my rump.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:What percentage of computers in the US use an MS OS? that says it all really. According to wikki.answers.com it's well over 90%. I'm not pulling this out my rump.

G

Yeah, the 90% market share is a pretty well advertised number. That doesn't make it a monopoly. For something to be one there has to be no realistic alternative, yet there are several. Thus it's not a monopoly it's just a dominant product. The IPod has a nearly 90% market share in the PMP market, but it's not a monopoly either. A monopoly is a shutout, nothing else can feasibly compete with one, the old rail and phone monopolies being good examples. Microsoft is not a monopoly. You're using that word wrong.

I'm using the word right in my opinion.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:I'm using the word right in my opinion.

G

The neat thing about me is that I don't really value opinions over things written in dictionaries.

Why is that neat? If you look around enough you can probably find a definition that works for you. You do know that the Clinton admin was planning to slap MS with an anti trust suit don't you?

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Why is that neat? If you look around enough you can probably find a definition that works for you. You do know that the Clinton admin was planning to slap MS with an anti trust suit don't you?

G

I know, the microsoft antitrust issues happened and are over. Thats why I qualified that they aren't a monopoly "any more". They are very currently mired anti trust suits in europe concerning the IE browser, but thats largely blown over as well. OS Tiger came around and fixed the glaring gak hole that was the mac operating system, and apple has seen continued growth because of it. All of the fifteen billion linux brands are seeing slight but continual growth, and google is about to throw Chrome OS onto the market in an attempt to dominate the netbook sector. It's not a monopoly.

If a presidential administration wanted to bring on an anti trust suit that speaks volumes to me.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:If a presidential administration wanted to bring on an anti trust suit that speaks volumes to me.

G

You know what also speaks volumes? A decade. Also they did get hit with antitrust litigation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft

There you go. Do you still think Bell has a monopoly too? They had a president put the lens on them a while back too.

It looks like you are muddying the waters. At one time Bell was definitely a monopoly. There are many carriers to choose from today. It's not the case with computer operating systems, in fact all pcs come pre loaded with Windows OS.

G

That's the problem with comparing PC's. Not sure what a Mac costs but when you say "cheap" Dell PC's, yeah it's true that they solder stuff in or have proprietary hardware but it's not the way all Dells or Acers are made.

Spend more than $1000 on a Dell or Acer and they are in fact quite flexible as far as upgrades. I bought a middle of the road Dell 6 years ago (spent 1200 on it) and everything was upgradeable.

The only thing I like about the Apple computers is their monitors (the higher end cinema ones) but I'm not going to buy a Mac for the monitor. I have to assume the monitors won't work on a normal PC (although for the price of a 20" cinema monitor I could probably pick up a 40" HDTV LCD and have twice the viewing).

Mac VS PC will be a debate that will rage until the end of time.

Green Blow Fly wrote:It looks like you are muddying the waters. At one time Bell was definitely a monopoly. There are many carriers to choose from today. It's not the case with computer operating systems, in fact all pcs come pre loaded with Windows OS.

G

... Yeah, and all blackberries come with the blackberry OS. That doesn't mean that you can't buy a different phone. All macs come loaded with snow leopard now, and you can have a version of linux installed in most desktops you purchase at best buy and other stores. You really don't have much of an argument here, you're just flat out wrong.

n0t_u wrote:No one wins in OS wars, ever. As soon as one is done the losing side just goes around the interwebs and knocks some more boyz around the head and tell them to "lissen up gud cuz liek da bestest OS iz gunna win" before they launch another Waaagghh! on the nearest forum.

...
You sir, win the internets.

Now, who is going to do a Klan Apple and Klan Microsoft Ork army?

I have to assume the monitors won't work on a normal PC (although for the price of a 20" cinema monitor I could probably pick up a 40" HDTV LCD and have twice the viewing).

They are just LCD displays. They work fine with all hardware that has the appropriate outputs. Also TVs make awful monitors typically, their dot pitch is pretty low and most do a poor duty of maintaining a solid static contrast ratio. They've caught up a lot now that they can be purchased in 1080p at small sizes, but they still have the lingering issues inherent to the different uses of a TV and monitor.

Shurma you can't win a debate by endlessly stating you are correct and the opposition is wrong. It doesn't work like that.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Shurma you can't win a debate by endlessly stating you are correct and the opposition is wrong. It doesn't work like that.

G

It does when every single fact bears out that the opposition is wrong and they are just too stubborn to do anything but state a thoroughly refuted and incorrect statement ad-naseum hoping it will somehow stick.

I lawld when I read that.. Kettle meet pot.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Shurma you can't win a debate by endlessly stating you are correct and the opposition is wrong. It doesn't work like that.

G

When you misuse a term that is fundamental to your argument that's essentially the only recourse. Microsoft has competitors in the OS market. Therefore Microsoft is not a monopoly. End of story.

And they have 90 percent or more of the marketshare. Those in the 10 percent or less are not competitors. Who do you know seriously that runs a pc with a non MS OS?
Apple is in a niche market.

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:And they have 90 percent or more of the marketshare. Those in the 10 percent or less are not competitors. Who do you know seriously that runs a pc with a non MS OS?
Apple is in a niche market.

G

This conversation hurts my mind.

Troll is obvious troll.

G

Yea I'm confused about the semantics now. Those saying MS isn't a monopoly - are you trying to argue that they're just monopolistic now? I thought MS was still legally treated as a monopoly across the world.

Green Blow Fly wrote:And they have 90 percent or more of the marketshare. Those in the 10 percent or less are not competitors.

How are you defining this market? Because I know you wouldn't be foolish enough to presume that commercial sales can be thought of as being equivalent to personal sales. You can quote client statistics all you want, but they don't really tell use anything about the underlying economics.

Green Blow Fly wrote:
Who do you know seriously that runs a pc with a non MS OS?

Me, for one. My father, for another. Also several of my friends. None of us work in the tech industry, or do anything particularly serious with respect to our own systems. There are a lot of people that use alternative operating systems on their home computers. What gives Microsoft its dominant statistical lead is a well established, commercial supply chain.

Green Blow Fly wrote:
Apple is in a niche market.

Apple isn't a niche market, its actually Microsoft's biggest competitor for personal sales.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cane wrote:Yea I'm confused about the semantics now. Those saying MS isn't a monopoly - are you trying to argue that they're just monopolistic now? I thought MS was still legally treated as a monopoly across the world.

The problem is that raw market share isn't enough to call a given corporation a monopoly. They also have to behave as one. That's why the lynch pin of the antitrust case against MS was the conflation of IE and the Windows OS; especially in conjunction with the rebates provided to major distributors that agreed to offer Windows exclusively.

Getting this back up, we can't really say what's better for you. What I'd recommend is finding a way to compare them both; perhaps go to some trouble to install Mac OS on your laptop/computer, and try it out against, say, Windows 7.

That being said, they aren't perfect; as I haven't handled Mac OS in that great a scale, I can't point the problems with it. However Windows does get Virus. Or rather, people get virus into Windows. Which can be avoided rather easily using Microsoft Security Essentials, Windows Firewall, regular updates and not clicking on every single "Computer is infected!!1!" ad on the internet. Also mails that offer, erm, size increments on your manhood are to be avoided.

Apart from that, both seem slick, with Windows being slightly less shiny than Mac. It's really up to you and the smaller details.

I for one prefer to have some degree of control and Win has served me fine. I know how to handle most of the problems through online research, I can make most software I need/want to work on it, and mainly watch movies and stuff like that.

On the form, you simply have to recognize that Jonathan Ive has done wonders with the Apple line; I personally love the Macbook Pro line, not only aestetical but also functional-wise. There are other PC makers that have a good design department, but their laptops aren't as solid as the aluminum Macbooks.

I agree with what Cane has put forward. Apple has placed themselves in a niche market. It's obvious because only an Apple machine can run an Apple OS, which is the exact opposite philosophy that Bill Gates took when he negotiated with IBM to develop their OS back in the 1980s. By placing yourself in a niche market you are going for a certain percentage of the market rather than the whole shooting match so to speak.

G