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Gwar! wrote:

Tri wrote:Sigh ... this has been cover and i'm not getting into this again but see here (click the picture) for my views on why he gets +1attacks with the powerfists ...
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/5/22/33904_sm-Marnues%20Calgar%2C%20Space%20Marines%2C%20Ultramarines%2C%20Wielding%203%20Weapons.jpg
... there are only rules for using 2 weapons at once so if you have more use must pick them and then check the combination to see the effect.

And as I have pointed out, the Gauntlets of Ultramar are a single weapon. He has exactly TWO weapons. The gauntlets, and a Power Weapon.

No one in my group plays Calgar, but here's how I'd push for it to be worked out:

Calgar has TWO special weapons choices:
1. Power Weapon
2. Gauntlets of Ultramar - 2 Power Fists

In effect though, Calgar has three special weapons. 1 Power weapon and 2 Power fists. He can either wield the power sword or the matched pair of power fists. If he wields the fists he gets the +1 bonus. Yes, he has to choose between 2 special weapons, but one of those choices provides him with a matched pair of special CCWs. Saying otherwise just strikes me as a bit of cognitive dissonance. Turning a blind eye to the fact that he's wielding two matched special CCWs only because they are presented as a singular choice.

I'd completely agree with you Gwar! if he was instead equipped with a Power Weapon and the Gauntlet of Ultramar (not Gauntlets). Anyway, it's YMDC and based on my reading of the rules, that's how I'd play it.

-Yad

If you treat it as a 2 handed weapon, then you come to the correct conclusion (That the Gauntlets do not grant a bonus attack) in the wrongest way possible.

No rule states this. Please show me the rule about 2 handed weapons always denying a bonus attack

The restriction of extra attacks applies to 2 Special Weapons, regardless of how many hands they are.

Please read the thread, this is wrong it applies on to singlehanded weapons which the Gauntlets clearly aren't just look at the model if you don't beleive me he quite clearly has them on both hands...

Gwar! wrote:

Tri wrote:Sigh ... this has been cover and i'm not getting into this again but see here (click the picture) for my views on why he gets +1attacks with the powerfists ...
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/5/22/33904_sm-Marnues%20Calgar%2C%20Space%20Marines%2C%20Ultramarines%2C%20Wielding%203%20Weapons.jpg
... there are only rules for using 2 weapons at once so if you have more use must pick them and then check the combination to see the effect.

And as I have pointed out, the Gauntlets of Ultramar are a single weapon. He has exactly TWO weapons. The gauntlets, and a Power Weapon.

Gauntlets of Ultramar: These are a matched pair of powerfists.
...and again without anying that is plural ...
Gauntlet of Ultramar: This is a matched powerfist.

I was about to say that they are described as a 'pair' too; Tri...but you beat me to it. This is very cut and dry in my mind that you can only ever fight with 2 weapons, and Calgar would get the bonus for 2 PFs.

So is a Pair of Scissors 2 items or one?

So is a Pair of Scissors 2 items or one?

A pair of Trousers too! But but "these" is still a plural and powerfist is an existing single item a scissor is not.

FlingitNow wrote:

So is a Pair of Scissors 2 items or one?

A pair of Trousers too! But but "these" is still a plural and powerfist is an existing single item a scissor is not.

So do you say "This is a Pair of Trousers"?

"This is a Pair of Trousers"?

Yes that is how English works, "these are a pair of trousers" is gramatically wrong.

FlingitNow wrote:

"This is a Pair of Trousers"?

Yes that is how English works, "these are a pair of trousers" is gramatically wrong.

If you say so. -Shrug-

Gwar! wrote:

FlingitNow wrote:

So is a Pair of Scissors 2 items or one?

A pair of Trousers too! But but "these" is still a plural and powerfist is an existing single item a scissor is not.

So do you say "This is a Pair of Trousers"?

Trousers are an odd over site due to the way the language evolve (if i rember right long ago socks got longer and longer and then joined but were still call a pair then when pants and Trousers came along they to got called a pair of because every one was used to it)

Now i understand that ye'old GW makes some odd choices but i each of the above have no singular form where as you can get a power fist.

FlingitNow wrote:

"This is a Pair of Trousers"?

Yes that is how English works, "these are a pair of trousers" is gramatically wrong.

This fragment is actually a comma splice. You've joined two independent clauses with a comma instead of a conjunction.

Yes, that is how English works; 'these are a pair of trousers' is grammatically wrong. (Correct version)

Oddly enough, these glasses I'm looking through are still one object. These trousers that I'm wearing are correct. In certain circumstances, singular objects may be plural. Plural objects may be referred to singularly as well. 'Is my hair ok?' is an excellent example of this. English is a language of loopholes and exceptions. Studying the exact construction of a sentence will cause more controversy than it resolves.

either way you can't have a matching pair of one thing. If you had matching pair of glasses, then people would know you had 2 glasses, or a matching pair of your favorite trousers. You would then own 2 of the same ones....This is just getting a little dumb if you *have* to explain this to someone

Gwar! wrote:

Tri wrote:Sigh ... this has been cover and i'm not getting into this again but see here (click the picture) for my views on why he gets +1attacks with the powerfists ...
http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2009/5/22/33904_sm-Marnues%20Calgar%2C%20Space%20Marines%2C%20Ultramarines%2C%20Wielding%203%20Weapons.jpg
... there are only rules for using 2 weapons at once so if you have more use must pick them and then check the combination to see the effect.

And as I have pointed out, the Gauntlets of Ultramar are a single weapon. He has exactly TWO weapons. The gauntlets, and a Power Weapon.

Rofl - this is funny stuff. So (1 + 1) + 1 = 2? Really, tell another.

Anyway, since we always like to throw around 'permissive ruleset', it would seem that the listing would need to indicate what the weapon (or weapons, in this case) are and do. They don't say that they are a "single weapon". In fact, they say that they are a matched pair of weapons. Everything in that last sentence indicates the Gauntlets being plural. Even your own statement negated your previous statement.

"He has exactly TWO weapons. The gauntlets" (which, by definition, means more than one) "and a Power weapon." (which is also one)