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What specifically about DE is overpowered?

They have weapons that are good at killing MEQ sure, but they also have weapons that are not targeted at only killing MEQ, and their default weaponry is amongst the weakest in the game on multiple fronts.

Yes, the HQs are 2++ super killing machines...with a toughness of 3 and no eternal warrior so they can be instaglibbed easily by a single lascannon.

Yeah, we can spam mech. But so can lots of other armies, and most of their mech is tougher and though you can turn and argue about our weapons that make your entire army AV12 our army is already naturally AV 10 (or 11 on the heavy stuff)

Do you have any specific aspects you feel are pointedly overpowered - or is it just a general feeling that we're too good at killing T4 3+ save units?

Thor665 wrote:Yes, the HQs are 2++ super killing machines...with a toughness of 3 and no eternal warrior so they can be instaglibbed easily by a single lascannon.

And, more importantly, weapons with a higher rate of fire like Multilasers, Scatterlasers, Autocannons, Missile Pods, and other common weapons like those.

It's not such a big issue anymore with the new books out but I used to think the following was a bit broken.

Raider moves 12" +
Unit disembarks 2 1/2" +
fleet roll of 1"-6" +
Assault of 12" (guaranteed on at least one unit since you took lilith)

Which total's 27 1/2" to 33 1/2". That's just insane for a charge. However you can get into the mid 20's with orks and marines now, which you couldn't do before.

Now combine that with a webway portal deployed on the centerline 12" into the table. Add to that the ability for everything else to start in reserve's.

This was greatly toned down with 5th edition. But I just remember webway armies were almost auto-win against any sort of gunline or army without serious conter assault ability. Ahh the good old days.

Lorek wrote:And, more importantly, weapons with a higher rate of fire like Multilasers, Scatterlasers, Autocannons, Missile Pods, and other common weapons like those.

True that, most Eldar vehicles are basically 'point and kill' when targeting DE craft, same with Dakka Preds. While we're at it a lot of the template weapons are bad news for the Lord as well. Did that to a DE player I fought against in a double header. Dropped some Dissie templates on his Incubi retinue w. Lord after they had wiped out my partner's Nob Squad. It really didn't go well for the Lord. Though I will admit, plasma weaponry invariably solves most problems.

Dark Eldar have managed, with a very old codex, to go from pretty good, to ok, to really good, albeit with one build.

In 3rd it was all Rhino rush, and DE did just fine. Wyches worked well in combat, etc. In 4th ed no one took transports (or they took few of them) because rhino rush was nerfed, but close combat still allowed you that long charge, and you could clip a unit and beat it. 5th rolls around, and all of a sudden everyone is mechanized - which is exactly where DE excel with all their dark lances. CC has become dicier, since the enemy gets to pile in. All of a sudden that 8 wyche unit can't deal with the ork mob, or hit the end of a tac squad, or terminators, without everyone piling in.

Usually dexes get hosed by "meta" (and I use that term loosely) shifts. It just so happens DE have been around long enough for the game to shift right into their wheelhouse. And I expect them to continue to be good against mech builds of all kinds until their new book. Then all bets are off.

As a DE player for many years, I actually find it hard to kill rhinos and similar transports with my DE consistently. In the Mechanicon GT I played in last Nov, I finished 12th out of about 40 or so, and played against the just out Space Wolves (draw), marines x2, and tau, iirc. (I only played 4 games as I was asked to ringer to balance the attendance). Throughout I would fire all 12-14 of my Dark Lances at rhinos, or dakka preds, or land raiders and do squat, or miss completely. Now, I was also using mandrakes, and a talos.

I'm not surprised by Dash's success against BA, and I think that will be the DE trend since most BA players will be going with the new shiny stuff, till they realize that a good solid core will work better for them, as in previous codexes, rather than stormravens, sanguinary guard, and all the other expensive stuff (and I play Flesh Tearers as well).

I wonder what the forum's reaction would be if the new Dark Eldar codex was released and it didn't change at all - completely the same.

"O noz! 2+ invul save for only 25 pts and it only shorts out on a "1" Nacho Grande!"

"Raiders are AV10 and only fifty something points? They can move 12" and still disembark its troops? Broken!"

"What? Half naked bikini clad Wych units that die to thrown rocks but have a 4+ invul save in CC? Cheese o' rama!"

"Dude, did you hear they can deepstrike but can't disembark on the same turn they land? We are soo dead!"

"How about that Dark Lance thingy? It is soo good that they do not need melta type weapons like the Eldar, I heard it will give the DE a 7% chance of destroying chimera - I'm selling my armor!"

"Did you hear they have no infiltrators or scouts? They don't need to, they can drop a portal thingy in their own deployment zone and instead of entering the game from reserves using the 72" board edge and coming out guaranteed and for free they can pay half a hundred to enter the game instead from a circle no bigger than a small blast template but only if the deployers can survive a full turn of shooting from the opponents entire list. DE has total pwnage!

"Also, did you see how awesome the Warriors and Wyches are that they make ALL the other choices in all the codex look bad? They're that good and I'm just going to make a list full of warriors and wyches because I don't need the rest! We should just surrender now, all our base is theirs!"

Kwi wrote:I wonder what the forum's reaction would be if the new Dark Eldar codex was released and it didn't change at all - completely the same.

"O noz! 2+ invul save for only 25 pts and it only shorts out on a "1" Nacho Grande!"

"Raiders are AV10 and only fifty something points? They can move 12" and still disembark its troops? Broken!"

"What? Half naked bikini clad Wych units that die to thrown rocks but have a 4+ invul save in CC? Cheese o' rama!"

"Dude, did you hear they can deepstrike but can't disembark on the same turn they land? We are soo dead!"

"How about that Dark Lance thingy? It is soo good that they do not need melta type weapons like the Eldar, I heard it will give the DE a 7% chance of destroying chimera - I'm selling my armor!"

"Did you hear they have no infiltrators or scouts? They don't need to, they can drop a portal thingy in their own deployment zone and instead of entering the game from reserves using the 72" board edge and coming out guaranteed and for free they can pay half a hundred to enter the game instead from a circle no bigger than a small blast template but only if the deployers can survive a full turn of shooting from the opponents entire list. DE has total pwnage!

"Also, did you see how awesome the Warriors and Wyches are that they make ALL the other choices in all the codex look bad? They're that good and I'm just going to make a list full of warriors and wyches because I don't need the rest! We should just surrender now, all our base is theirs!"

*laughing*

I like having a "take all comers" list, and no matter how I spin it, I simply can't make one that is capable of handling mechanized IG - I've decided not to bring my DE to any big events for now.