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LunaHound wrote:

ShumaGorath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Shuma , i bet you like FF Spirits Within

No, that movie sucked pretty bad. Better than the final fantasy VII movie though. By a long shot. A really long shot.

How about compared to RE movies? I think its better?

Oh, as compared to the RE movies? Yeah, it was pretty good by comparison. It was a bit more cerebral, had a nice visual flair, good cg, and wasn't a generic shakycam action movie. It's failure as a story came from a studio that failed while trying really hard. The resident evil movies failed because they were simplistic summer action movie crap.

Funfact: Smart and well written action movies make less money than ones with simplistic and generic plots, even when they have similar special effects and acting.

Hollywood movies vs Sundance movies

LunaHound wrote:Hollywood movies vs Sundance movies

Good movies vs bad movies. A lot of film fest flicks are pretty awful too.

ShumaGorath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Hollywood movies vs Sundance movies

Good movies vs bad movies. A lot of film fest flicks are pretty awful too.

Yes , but Hollywood is more inclined via making profit to select the type that will appeal to mass.

Long story short , Hollywood isnt the one to blame.

Blame the mass that finds such and such appealing , Hollywood is merely giving them what they want.

whatwhat wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:The number of games you release does not a good series make.

The quality of the games, however, does.
Look at the Heroes of Might & Magic series or the Command and Conquer series for an example.

I think the point Luna is making is that obviously there are plenty of people who like the game for it to warrant 26 sequels.

Yep

6/7

ShumaGorath wrote:

And if you actually understand how game textures work, and how they are applied to the environments and models, yes, those walls and textures are very photorealistic for the times, please, have a knowledge base before you argue something you know nothing about.

Just for reference I work in graphic design and have done a pretty good amount of 3d animation.

You should probably learn what a pre rendered environment is, since it's pretty clear that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

Graphic design has literally nothing to do with the way games are constructed an put together. But I have been doing pro GD for 3 years now, want to piss further than me? It doesn't fething matter.

A pre rendered environment, is a space where every object has been rendered in a 360 degree view so that no matter where you are, you are seeing the correct side of the object(s). Everything 3D rendered is pre rendered, every object, animation, movieclip(if we are talking flash) etc. Back in the mid 90's, games were limited to simple textures, and only minor, if any, bump-mapping. If something was shaded, or highly textured (brick, scales, thorns, spikes), the lights and shadows were incorporated into the color of the texture. To get a "reaslitic look" like many of the textures, game designers would employ the same tactics used today, using a PHOTO of an object, texture, item, etc. On OLDER games, items would not even me modeled, just flat images placed on vertical 3d planes (I.e Doom). the planes would move in accordance with the player, always facing you...very weird. In RE 1, 2, 3, CV, Survivor, RE 2.5, Most interactive elements of the games were modeled and rendered and animated separate to the background. main character, enemies, guns, muzzle flares, bullets, puke, blood, slime, etc... The backgrounds, and most of the non interactive peices of the game (ie. pillars, posts, doors etc) were rendered as planes with textures applied to them. They were lit, but not bump mapped. Which is why a pillar or item that may move, like one of the puzzle sequences will seem brighter than everything around it. It has its own rendered and animated lighting. Shading happened, but was incorporated into the texture, or pre animated and parented to whatever was the light source.

I think, what Capcom did with the 32-bit RISC (33.9MHz) playstation 1, was groundbreaking. They were working with 2mb! of ram and 1mb of video ram. Do you realize that amazing environemtns they were able to pump out of that?



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ShumaGorath wrote:

LunaHound wrote:Shuma , i bet you like FF Spirits Within

No, that movie sucked pretty bad. Better than the final fantasy VII movie though. By a long shot. A really long shot.

You have to be a fan of FFVII to love Advent Children, if you are, and you still hate it....well.......I'll get you some of these...

ShumaGorath wrote:Funfact: Smart and well written action movies make less money than ones with simplistic and generic plots, even when they have similar special effects and acting.

that is why Michael Bay makes so much money....

IG_urban wrote:If something was shaded, or highly textured (brick, scales, thorns, spikes), the lights and shadows were incorporated into the color of the texture. To get a "reaslitic look" like many of the textures, game designers would employ the same tactics used today, using a PHOTO of an object, texture, item, etc. On OLDER games, items would not even me modeled, just flat images placed on vertical 3d planes (I.e Doom). the planes would move in accordance with the player, always facing you...very weird. In RE 1, 2, 3, CV, Survivor, RE 2.5, Most interactive elements of the games were modeled and rendered and animated separate to the background.

Yep Which is why the "areas" only follow specific camera angles, usually 1 lol.

which is a shortcut to getting around the memory capabilities of the PS1

I remember when the first Medal of Honor came out and people called it 'bar setting' and 'groundbreaking' because it was one of the few FPS games at the time that offered actual 3d modelled enemies. I remember playing it for the first time as a kid and being totally blown away by the awesome graphics.

Fast forward and now I'm Sad Panda, because kids these days are growing up with that stuff. They won't really see how far things have come and really only like games for the graphics

IG_urban wrote:which is a shortcut to getting around the memory capabilities of the PS1

Yep , i fully understood what you are talking about.

In a way , they do that to movie similarly in Alien when the team went to Space Jokey's ship in that giant egg room.

metallifan wrote:I remember when the first Medal of Honor came out and people called it 'bar setting' and 'groundbreaking' because it was one of the few FPS games at the time that offered actual 3d modelled enemies. I remember playing it for the first time as a kid and being totally blown away by the awesome graphics.

Fast forward and now I'm Sad Panda, because kids these days are growing up with that stuff. They won't really see how far things have come and really only like games for the graphics

Dont be sad panda! half of the fun and realism are experienced through your brain and imagination itself!

Because the realism now is still very far from hologram or stuff like matrix :3

Well this degraded rather quickly. Yes the trailer clearly indicates this will be a sub-par movie on every level for the intelectually inclined. However, watching a Resident Evil movie for any kind of intelectual stimulation is like watching Death Race trying to find Shakespear quotes. It just isn't going to happen. I will watch this movie after it hits dvd to save money and I know I will enjoy it for everything over the top it will offer. I know I'm either going to think effects are cool or be laughing during the silly parts. Although it doesn't stay true to the games (just like most game to movie translations) it is able to follow its own story. Everything has progressed to the point its at along the same line. They do need to release some Cliff notes or make RE2.5 to fill in the MASSIVE story gap between 2 and 3 but even with the gap there are no issues picking up where the movie is going.

As for the games all the arguing I've seen is I'm right, your wrong, deal with it. It has mostly been based on facts that don't really matter. People enjoy what they want to. I liked Waterworld and all the numbered RE games. If the graphics are whats stopping you from giving RE1 a try pick it up for Gamecube. It got a massive graphical overhaul and was exactly like the original. They threw in a few new twists and challenges but nothing that truly turned it into a new game. So any more on topic comments on why you will love/hate this movie?

Graphic design has literally nothing to do with the way games are constructed an put together. But I have been doing pro GD for 3 years now, want to piss further than me? It doesn't fething matter.

I'm confused as to how graphic design has nothing to do with the way games are constructed and put together. They are fields which utilize the same tools to the same ends. 3d animation in game design has more constraints to it due to the restrictions inherent to interactivity and hardware limitations, but the fields aren't particularly different. I've worked on a few games mods (mostly source engine) before, and the skills translated quite well in my opinion.

A pre rendered environment, is a space where every object has been rendered in a 360 degree view so that no matter where you are, you are seeing the correct side of the object(s). Everything 3D rendered is pre rendered, every object, animation, movieclip(if we are talking flash) etc. Back in the mid 90's, games were limited to simple textures, and only minor, if any, bump-mapping.

If by bump mapping you mean really rough emboss mapping on pc games then yes. Games were capable of bump mapping during the 90's, but thats a minor point.

If something was shaded, or highly textured (brick, scales, thorns, spikes), the lights and shadows were incorporated into the color of the texture. To get a "reaslitic look" like many of the textures, game designers would employ the same tactics used today, using a PHOTO of an object, texture, item, etc.

Yeah, I know. I've done tessellated texturing for environments before and I've textured prop models in the past (never got very good at handling lcsm unwrapped meshes, so my texture work on more complex models wasn't the best).

I think, what Capcom did with the 32-bit RISC (33.9MHz) playstation 1, was groundbreaking. They were working with 2mb! of ram and 1mb of video ram. Do you realize that amazing environemtns they were able to pump out of that?

Console memory has always been sparse. The xbox had what? 64 megs of onboard video memory? Programming specifically to hardware allows for excellent results. I have no doubt about the technical proficiency of the RE team at capcom, they probably squeezed every pixel, but I believe that the environments they crafted were visually quite boring, even for the day. Games like Clock Tower or Parasite Eve created far more interesting environs then were seen in RE1.

You have to be a fan of FFVII to love Advent Children, if you are, and you still hate it....well.......I'll get you some of these...

It was odd seeing the split in my friends between people that loved Advent Children and those that hated it. You could split them perfectly down the line of which ones still loved to play the game and those that did not.

Although it doesn't stay true to the games (just like most game to movie translations) it is able to follow its own story. Everything has progressed to the point its at along the same line. They do need to release some Cliff notes or make RE2.5 to fill in the MASSIVE story gap between 2 and 3 but even with the gap there are no issues picking up where the movie is going.

Well there likely wasn't anywhere for them to go after armageddon. The franchise had essentially ended. A prequel wouldn't have worked out particularly well, and a fourth film in line would just fall apart so they didn't have much choice. It would have been nice if they had used four as a starting point, it has the makings of a good movie plot in there. Spanish accents, an established hero, mysterious enemies, an excellent and foreign setting, and a great overall "feel" to it. Sadly they just decided to make underworld four.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Graphic design has literally nothing to do with the way games are constructed an put together. But I have been doing pro GD for 3 years now, want to piss further than me? It doesn't fething matter.

I'm confused as to how graphic design has nothing to do with the way games are constructed and put together. They are fields which utilize the same tools to the same ends. 3d animation in game design has more constraints to it due to the restrictions inherent to interactivity and hardware limitations, but the fields aren't particularly different. I've worked on a few games mods (mostly source engine) before, and the skills translated quite well in my opinion.

I will agree that tool interfaces, at times, in certain programs...COULD BE SLIGHTLY related....but your stretching man. Have some humble pie.

ShumaGorath wrote:If by bump mapping you mean really rough emboss mapping on pc games then yes. Games were capable of bump mapping during the 90's, but thats a minor point.

umm...no. Bump mapping is applying a pixel by pixel perturbation to all of the normals (angles) of a pre rendered surface, so when illumination is applied, it reacts accordingly. EVERY item with ANY type of texture in a 3d space is bump mapped. And rendering this pre..say.... 2004 was disastrously-painstakingly long and grueling so most developers just opted not to do it at all.

I will agree that tool interfaces, at times, in certain programs...COULD BE SLIGHTLY related....but your stretching man. Have some humble pie.

I'll eat the pie, but are you using a version of maya or 3dsm that I wasn't? I suppose if you're working in engine with unreal engine 3 or something the development tools are right there for most items, but you still have to duck out to use zbrush or photoshop occasionally. I think your overstating the differentiation between graphic design and the artistic production side of game design. I mean, one of those thing is the other.

umm...no. Bump mapping is applying a pixel by pixel perturbation to all of the normals (angles) of a pre rendered surface, so when illumination is applied, it reacts accordingly. EVERY item with ANY type of texture in a 3d space is bump mapped. And rendering this pre..say.... 2004 was disastrously-painstakingly long and grueling so most developers just opted not to do it at all.

Wasn't perp pixel shading virtually impossible in consoles before the ps2 (and even then not utilized since it was a costly software emulation process)? A few computer games utilized it before the new millennium, but those were rare in the extreme.

Quick question.

Will Milla Jovovich be naked in this one?

Dreadwinter wrote:Quick question.

Will Milla Jovovich be naked in this one?

Better question: will MULTIPLE Millas be naked in this one(since she's running around with all her clones and what not) at the same time?

ShumaGorath wrote:

I will agree that tool interfaces, at times, in certain programs...COULD BE SLIGHTLY related....but your stretching man. Have some humble pie.

I'll eat the pie, but are you using a version of maya or 3dsm that I wasn't? I suppose if you're working in engine with unreal engine 3 or something the development tools are right there for most items, but you still have to duck out to use zbrush or photoshop occasionally. I think your overstating the differentiation between graphic design and the artistic production side of game design. I mean, one of those thing is the other.

umm...no. Bump mapping is applying a pixel by pixel perturbation to all of the normals (angles) of a pre rendered surface, so when illumination is applied, it reacts accordingly. EVERY item with ANY type of texture in a 3d space is bump mapped. And rendering this pre..say.... 2004 was disastrously-painstakingly long and grueling so most developers just opted not to do it at all.

Wasn't perp pixel shading virtually impossible in consoles before the ps2 (and even then not utilized since it was a costly software emulation process)? A few computer games utilized it before the new millennium, but those were rare in the extreme.

it wasn't impossible, just too chunky to deal with.


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I use Max, Maya, 2010, zbrush 09, toxik 2010, mudbox, and have been using the adobe creative suite since before it was the creative suite. *around PS5

Back on-topic: Hollywood is what they call a specialised economy. This is because all movies are produced in order to fulfill a specialised need, namely maintaining the producer's cocaine habit.
"Hey Spielberg, where's the blow?!"
"Uhh... s%$# the well's run dry, greenlight Resident Evil IV right now go go go!"

Commissar Molotov wrote:But it has MILA JOVAVICH!!! She could be doing her TAXES and it'd still be HAWT!!!

QFT. A full frontal of a hottie is a full frontal of a hottie, so context doesn't really matter.

I use Max, Maya, 2010, zbrush 09, toxik 2010, mudbox, and have been using the adobe creative suite since before it was the creative suite. *around PS5

See? The programs utilized in motion graphic design and videogame design are often times the same. I use maya 10, have been sampling zbrush, the creative sweet since photoshop 7 (though I didn't pick up illustrator until a few years later, then after effects and indesign after that). What's the difference between zbrush and modbox (Other than obvious issues relating to one being an autodesk program)?

I most commonly use at this point Maya, AE, photoshop, illustrator, final cut (though mostly just to cut up footage), motion (for the sake of laziness), and sparse web editing tools.

Hah, I should keep you on retainer for my maya questions. Learning it in a vacuum (this school is pretty poor) has been a big case of trial and error.

I wonder if a mod can split the posts in this into 2 different threads. One for the people who know how to stay on topic and another for people who want to have a contest about who knows more about how 3d graphics are rendered and what was used at what time period. That way its easier for me to avoid that pointless argument.

rocklord2004 wrote:I wonder if a mod can split the posts in this into 2 different threads. One for the people who know how to stay on topic and another for people who want to have a contest about who knows more about how 3d graphics are rendered and what was used at what time period. That way its easier for me to avoid that pointless argument.

I responded to you in one of my posts, but you glazed it over.

my main issues with the movies besides the high speed trainwrecking of the REAL(game) story...

is within five years the virus dried up all of the oceans and killed off almost all life on the planet......

IMpossible.

What. It was just a really thirsty and drastically illogical virus. Now we can go down and see what all those critters look that were hiding deep in the ocean.

but they are all zombies now!!! wtf!?

the opening line of the new movie is going to be...."the virus, after realizing that by impossibly draining all of the earth's oceans and killing almost all life, therefore killing it's chances of getting to space (OMG 5th movie X___x), decided to fill up all of the oceans, create some babies, uninfect all of the animals, and grow new plant life...............IN 3 fething D!!!!!!1111one"

*que Michael Bay splosiunz*

The virus wants to get into Spehss?

Will it fight Spehss Mehreens once it gets there?

I hope so..then we would have plague marines.

bewbs?

hungryp wrote:bewbs?

& beaver, if previous are any indication...

(not that there's anything wrong with that)

Into space we go. Lets just turn the RE movie series into the worlds longest prequel to Jason X. Umbrella was behind the Crystal Lake incident the whole time.

rocklord2004 wrote:Into space we go. Lets just turn the RE movie series into the worlds longest prequel to Jason X. Umbrella was behind the Crystal Lake incident the whole time.

Interesting concept.
Actually it's probably best not even to joke about such an idea,as some producer/director may be inspired to take your idea and run with it.