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Assault weapon and relentless does the same things, yes.

No, the difference being that if they had assault weapons they could reposition and also gain an extra turn of shooting. Since the stealth rules dictate that they set up outside of line of sight (unless you want to put them out in the open), you can fire at earliest round 2 (unless the enemy is silly enough to present juicy targets for them). If they need to get away because an assaulty unit is getting close, well... you've got the choice of either trying to lead them on a merry chase in the forest (and unless you have assault weapons that's just a tar pit on the condition that the opponent allow them to be) or you're going to run - in which case you can't fire a weapon anyway.

Having a strong assault unit near the snipers, while being a good idea theoretically, doesn't help mitigate the fact that they are more or less the only Eldar which can actually deploy outside the deployment zone so their body guards can't follow them around. Additionally, you have to stick down more than twice equal their points just to discourage enemies when a little bit of movement could help it out.

Regardless, something has to be done. The current Ranger unit doesn't really cut it. The tactical uses are quite obviously few or their performance is just utterly low, since so very few use them. Although I am open to arguments as to if it's just that they don't function in mechdar or moving fortress lists.

How about making the Pathfinder/Rangers cloaks fire resistant? They would get to take their normal armour save against any Template weapons that ignore cover.

The only other ability I could see them getting is a Withdrawal type that is similar to Skyleap. Just in this case the Pathfinders would infiltrate back into reserve.

What do ya think?

I honestly think them being vulnerable to fire is good, since it gives other armies something to use against them. Each unit should have tremendous weakness if it has tremendous strength. You just have to get them to be good enough that the enemy prioritizes flaming them more than just for fun.

Having them infiltrate out will stretch the imagination a bit much I think. Maybe have them be immune or highly resistant to line of sight during a turn when you haven't used their weapons. Maybe apply the same hallucination rules as Harlequin Shadowseer which is cancelled until their next shooting phase if they shoot? In that case they can certainly keep their heavy weapon status.

Thier base save is 5+. The fire retardant ability would only allow a third of those auto dying to survive and would do nothing to help against CC.

Either the infiltrate out or your shadowseer hallucination would work if steps were taken to balance the rules.

Rangers don't need assault weapons or relentless to move into position to fire on turn 1 after infiltrating between 12-18" from the enemy, all they need is the scouts USR so that they can make a scout move after infiltrating. The problem then is they are 12-18" from the enemy's front lines and unsupported. An bikes, jump packs, calvary, and open topped vehicle can assault them on turn 1, or even more likely a vehicle will move 12" and disembark a flame thrower to BBQ them. Let's go back to square 1.

FACT: All infiltrating sniper units be they eldar rangers, ratling snipers, scout snipers, vindicare assassins or anything other infiltrating snipers on can think of are doomed to a terrible fate if they infiltrate close to the enemy lines in a pitched battle. It's not the way infiltrating snipers were ever intended to work, and it's a doomed application of a unit.

The only scenario in which they have the proper space to infiltrate is spear head where 2 of the 4 table corners are unoccupied and >18" from the enemy's front lines. Even then unsupported infiltrating snipers don't do well as the enemy quickly adapts and comes up with a battle plan to eliminate them such as an outflanking unit, or land speeder with a heavy flamer. In the current state of the game the only viable place to put infiltrating snipers is in or near your own deployment zone.

I had an idea last night, Ymgarl Genestealers: What if Pathfinders could infiltrate like Ymgarl Genestealers? Secretly select a piece of terrain before the game starts. When they come in from reserves they can be deployed anywhere within that piece of terrain and act normally. In the case of genestealers the terrain piece is usually chosen to be front and center in the action where genestealers pop out of the woodwork and start eating peoples. In the case of pathfinders they would remain hidden until halfway through the battle sniper fire starts pouring out of what was thought to be an abandoned building that's off to the side of the battlefield. Pathfinders entering the battle half way through the game would greatly increase their survival chance against assault centered armies. One could even select a piece of terrain in the opposing player's deployment zone knowing their army would be long gone and over halfway across the board by the time the pathfinders come in from reserve.

There are 2 examples of this. Both are Eldar Apoc datasheets. The War Walker Host does not deploy, and is not in reserve. It is hidden and pops out 12" away from the enemy when the owner wants. The 2nd example is Striking Scorpian Host where Karandas can take his squad from one piece of concealing terrain to any other concealing terrain on the board. He can assault that turn as well.

After several frustrating games, I was convinced that Eldar had major problems. But after working hard on my game and trying to learn how to play them, I find that I can win with Eldar as they are. I have even recieved some comments about how OP they are. Here are my current thoughts:

1. My success is based on the list and tactics. The list includes a jetbike seer counsel (armed with enhance, and singing spears) with fortune farseer. I also have DAVU, Fire Dragons in Serpents, one DAVU squad is maxed out with Exarch and Bladestorm. I have a list with War Walkers (scatter lasers). All my vehicles have stones, and use scatter lasers. I previously used bright lances, but the ROF 1 was hurting me. Scatter laser spam, coupled with lots of movement, allows me to shoot up infantry, or side armor. If I need to kill a LR, I use the FD squads, or the singing spears. I try to stay away from people and make them chase me. I used an Autarch for delayed reserves to good effect but found that against melee lists, it was better to be on the table shooting. If my opponent has drop pods, I tend to reserve.

2. Probably due to previous failures, I am excited to play with this limited style. It is frustrating for my opponents because I am so dodgey.

3. If I keep my counsels fortuned, and make my vehicle and jet bike cover saves, my list is very effective at 2000 points. I have not expanded back to 3000 points which is where I was losing so badly before. I might go with spearhead formations to expand to 3000.

4. I still feel that much of the codex is 2nd tier, and only viable for friendly/themed lists. Then again, I wonder if I put the same effort into making it work, that I might find the same success.

5. Eldar psychic powers are good. I had a game where 4 Space Wolf Rune Priests shut down alot of my powers, but after causing 2 Perils of the Warp wounds on his Priests, he stopped attempting to use them. I thought that was fair dinkum. I still think the psychic hoods should work on 5+, not 4+.

I will continue to work with this type of list until I think I have it down. I have found new respect for the Eldar way of war. Eventually though, I would like to use my Banshees, Scorpians, Guardians, etc.

Eldar aren't over powered or under-competitive, infact they're one of the most competitive armies around (just look at the tournament results), particularly for a 4th ed. codex!

However, they do have some flaws/rough edges that could easily be sorted out. On top of the OP's opening suggestions, I'd say:

- Make Wraithlords tougher and/or improve WS/BS. Maybe toughness 9 or 2+ save. Or an invulnerable save.

- Falcons SHOULDN'T be a dedicated transport, they're fire support 1st and transport 2nd. However, they should have BS4 IMHO. Same points cost.

- Move War Walkers to fast attack but give a 5-10pts base cost increase due to the flexibility provided.

- Vypers need improving. I'd say 35pts as standard (without weapon) isn't unreasonable. If you compare it to a Land Speeder, they get a standard weapon and better BS for 50pts.

- Scorpions and Banshee's need improving, 'Assault Drill' whilst not very Eldar-ish may do it for the Banshees, but unsure how to boost scorpions. Possibly rending with a slight points hike?

- Wraithguard need to be less points. 25-30pts.

- Avatar needs to be slightly tougher.

- Guardian Jetbikes need slightly improving, maybe Original Posts suggestions is enough.

- Storm Guardians are suitably weak really, maybe only 6-7pts however?

- I'd say Defender Guardians are fine as they are.

- However, I feel the Eldar need improved anti-tank outside of Fire Dragons, this may be improved through improving the Vypers, Lords and Falcons however.

- Slight Points decrease for rangers/pathfinders should be enough really.

- Support Platforms need a big boost, unsure how outside of better toughness and large blasts or reduced scatter.

- Star Cannons need a bit of a boost, dominant in previous codex. Crap in current.

- Swooping Hawks obviously need a bonus. Maybe break away from their history and give them improved AP.


All of my proposed changes I feel don't make them over-powered but would actually make them a well-rounded Codex. Actually that would make them over-powered but if the other codices had their flaws sorted out like this, surely it would be a better game-system all-round?

@ Just Dave:
* War Walkers are heavy weapons platforms, not scout units, regardless of what the codex says.
* Wraithlords already have uncanny amount of armour, but currently suffer from a lack of invulnerable save. The sword makes up for the lower WS and the Twin-linked or extra weapon for the "low" BS, however, the twin-link option need to be reflected in reduced point cost or complete removal of twin-linking. Otherwise, they are a rather cheap HS option.
* Having never felt Wraithguard are worthwhile (previously collected Ulthwé), how do they do with the No Retreat?
* Falcons as gun boats mostly suffer from the rules regarding how many weapons it may shoot.
* Eldar are specialized, giving rending to Scorpions will make them better at taking down space marines than Banshees. They are already skimming close due to the high amount of attacks.
* I strongly disagree with Guardians being "suitably weak" or "6-7 points". It's not a case of wanting my pet army to be strong, but more a case of how it doesn't make sense having a dying race under-gear their precious inhabitants and sending them out in hordes. What's next? Space Marine Terminators with lasguns? Necron Monolith with AV 10 open-topped?

Otherwise I agree with most of what you wrote. I just think that the standard mechdar list is not one which need improving. I dislike fotm lists.

Oh, and you forgot the Reapers

ArmyC wrote:After several frustrating games, I was convinced that Eldar had major problems. But after working hard on my game and trying to learn how to play them, I find that I can win with Eldar as they are. I have even recieved some comments about how OP they are. Here are my current thoughts:

1. My success is based on the list and tactics. The list includes a jetbike seer counsel (armed with enhance, and singing spears) with fortune farseer. I also have DAVU, Fire Dragons in Serpents, one DAVU squad is maxed out with Exarch and Bladestorm. I have a list with War Walkers (scatter lasers). All my vehicles have stones, and use scatter lasers. I previously used bright lances, but the ROF 1 was hurting me. Scatter laser spam, coupled with lots of movement, allows me to shoot up infantry, or side armor. If I need to kill a LR, I use the FD squads, or the singing spears. I try to stay away from people and make them chase me. I used an Autarch for delayed reserves to good effect but found that against melee lists, it was better to be on the table shooting. If my opponent has drop pods, I tend to reserve.
<..>

Pretty much sums up people's gripe with the codex. One viable set of units, a limited portion of the codex is powerful while the other not so much with a few units that are just counter-productive.

-Actually, I'd say War Walkers are both scout units and weapon platforms. In fluff they're primarly scout units, in rules, they're primarily weapons platforms. I feel a price increase a move to fast attack suitably reflects this.
-Well the generally well-reported best configuration for the WL is 155pts (Missile Launcher and Bright Lance) and that ain't cheap. Particularly compared to Fire Prisms. Also, Wraithlords are supposed to be (reincarnated) heroes and exarchs (who have WS and BS 5 as standard). I agree, an invulnerable save may well be enough, 5+ shouldn't be too powerful, can be easily incorporated into their fluff and will protect them against power fists and missile launchers enough whilst not too much IMHO.
-Well Wraithguard would be worth considering if they were cheaper. Atm they are only worth running in 10men with fortune (as troops) but that's about 500pts.
-Maybe so, but I feel that the pilots of a Falcon deserve a BS4, particularly if the Prism gets one for example. if they could fire more weapons it would be a good alternative but atm I see them largely used in a defensive/Holofield/transport role.
-I will concede your rending/specialised opinion (although they still wouldn't match banshees), maybe if 5th Ed wasn't so dominated by tanks they would be better, but atm they are facing limited use.
- Storm Guardians have always been weak. They're civilians, they don't get equipped with the best stuff because they aren't trained for it. Their weakness often prevents them being taken in too large a number to correlate with their fluff. Maybe if they could take one or two specialist close combat weapons (eg. Scorpion Chainsword/Power Weapon) then they may be of use, particularly with Enhance. Terminators and Monoliths are equipped as they are because they're the best and therefore 'deserve' the best weapons, guardians are simple civilians.
- Good Point, I feel reapers should be 30pts (or 25pts), but possibly re-rolling to hit of 1's.

The standard mechdar list doesn't need improving I agree, but if the other Eldar units could have their flaws sorted out they will have more potential choices, hopefully without over-powering them.

Regarding Guardians, it's not really a matter of deserving or choice. Guardians are used only as a necessity since the number of aspect warriors really doesn't cut it any longer. There is no real equivalent in the other armies. It's only a matter of choice that the Guardians are so ill equipped, the Eldar Craftworlds are fully capable of producing decent enough weapons to put in their hands, which is why it is so strange.

The ratio between manpower:equipment in Eldar army is exactly reverse versus the Imperial Guard.

Not so much choice, more balance (in game). They already have fairly sophisticated equipment (fluff wise) and can even take some nasty stuff in game and as I said, it's balance.

Just Dave wrote:Not so much choice, more balance (in game). They already have fairly sophisticated equipment (fluff wise) and can even take some nasty stuff in game and as I said, it's balance.

I'd rather put it down to symmetry. A stepping ladder, if you will, where Guardians represent the lowest rung in order to justify the eliteness of the aspect warriors.

It's not like you need the Guardians as an Eldar. They can perfectly well be removed entirely from the codex and in it's current incarnation they wouldn't be any much worse off for it. As it stand people take them for two reasons one is the heavy weapon and the other is the melta gun (sweeping statement). For all other applications of combat you take Dire Avengers, including cheap scoring unit.
Add in that Eldar are only second to Space Marines when it comes to being described as not being expendable, having cheap troops to throw around just doesn't add up.

Now, I don't think there's much needed, but rather have the Guardians justify their 8 points in the current edition rather than have the 3rd edition cost attached to it. Improving their armour save isn't far fetched, and might just cut it. Won't help the Defenders being any deadlier, but the Storms my find it enough to justify their spot.

Sadly, the Eldar codex overall doesn't have the support options for a foot list, it lack decent rapid-deployment other than mechanization and it also lack deep strike protection. These are two glaring issues with how the armies work today. I don't propose both, but building a foot list only to find Terminators and Dreads setting down unchallenged in your face is not nice for an army which is predominantly shooty, if short-range shooty.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What if you merged Storm and Defenders into the same slot where they may chose either CCW+Pistol or Shuricat, but get to keep the options from both varieties - putting the grav platform as an option rather than requirement? Too much flexibility?

regarding the discussion on guardians:

I think guardians actually make a lot of sense given the Eldar fluff, they don't have enough aspect warriors so they occasionally need to bring less qualified troops to the fray. I would like guardians to be given the option of taking lasblasters though. (as discussed below)

If guardians were given las blasters, I think swooping hawks would need a drastic change, perhaps being equiped with grenade launchers would be sufficient, and stick to their lotsa grenades theme.

Going back to guardians now, allowing them to take either a ccw+ pistol or a shuricat in addition to all the different options is too much. Right now storm guardians are a shooting unit, 3 flamers hitting a squad can out damage a full bladestorming dire avenger squad fairly easily, but it comes at the cost of being at very close range and very fragile. Giving storm guardians shuri cats would be a no brainier, that would give them 16 shots in addition to the flamers instead of the 8 that they get from pistols.

The best of both worlds would be to give guardian defenders las blasters, improve the conceal power to provide a 5+ invulnerable save, and give any member of the squad the ability to shoot the grav platform (including the warlock) would make defenders far more viable.

on the other side, give storm guardians the option of equipping either a shuricat or ccw+pistol, in addition to their usual upgrades (melta or flamer). Lets face it, shuri cats are close range assault weapons, they make far more sense on storm guardians than defenders.

I think that these changes would help guardians become a lot more feasible. They could also probably use a points drop to 6 points per model as well They do have guardsman armor afterall!

Thousands of empty aspect armour suits at 4+ sv and they are throwing their most precious comodity out onto the battlefield with a 5+ save . This, does not make sense.

Guardians need a 4+ Sv

Guardians that have been acting as regular soldiers for a thousand years get BS 3 WS 3, yet humans get WS 4 BS 4 after a few years of war. This does not make sense.

Yes, changing the Guardians Stat-line would force a change to all Stat-lines but this is not necessarily bad. This could be used to address and correct the Shooting Aspects and Close combat aspect having identicle WS and BS.

One thing thats always irked me about the phoenix lords is that 2 of the aspects are missing lords.

I would like to see in our next codex to see lords for the Warp Spiders and the Shining Spears.

If I had my way, I would give them the following special rules. I haven't come up with any names or fluff for them yet, but whatever, I like these rules

Shining Spear lord: star lance, power weapon, star cannon (replaces tl shuricats on jetbike), withdraw, skilled rider, disciples (shining spears, allow one squad to counted as troops). battle fate (all lords should get a 4+ invuln at least)
barreling assault: the squad of shining spears which the lord is attached are capable of charges at great speeds, they may assault after turbo boosting, but must make a dangerous terrain test to do so.

Spider Lord: assault 2 spinneret rifle, powered blades, withdraw, disciples (warp spiders, allow one squad to be counted as troops). battle fate
Pathfinder of the warp: Lord guides his spiders through the warp with improved precision and safety, they scatter 1d6 when deep striking, and only take casualties on the roll of a double 1 or 6 during their assault phase jump. Lord himself will never be removed from play during an assault move jump.

Yes, changing the Guardians Stat-line would force a change to all Stat-lines but this is not necessarily bad. This could be used to address and correct the Shooting Aspects and Close combat aspect having identicle WS and BS.

And so my earlier suggestion of +1 WS to scorpions, banshees and shining spears, +1 BS to all other aspects.

Shining Spear lord: star lance, power weapon, star cannon (replaces tl shuricats on jetbike), withdraw, skilled rider, disciples (shining spears, allow one squad to counted as troops). battle fate (all lords should get a 4+ invuln at least)
barreling assault: the squad of shining spears which the lord is attached are capable of charges at great speeds, they may assault after turbo boosting, but must make a dangerous terrain test to do so.

Spider Lord: assault 2 spinneret rifle, powered blades, withdraw, disciples (warp spiders, allow one squad to be counted as troops). battle fate
Pathfinder of the warp: Lord guides his spiders through the warp with improved precision and safety, they scatter 1d6 when deep striking, and only take casualties on the roll of a double 1 or 6 during their assault phase jump. Lord himself will never be removed from play during an assault move jump.

Standard build of a Phoenix Lord is 1 piece of exarch wargear, 1 upgraded piece of exarch wargear, both exarch powers and all standard gear for the aspect along with 1 USR (exceptions are Maugan Ra who steals from the banshees, Fuegan who get's an axe because 2 upgraded guns would be odd, and Karandras who gets updated mandiblasters. Yes this is half, but they have good reason. Baharroth is the only real exception as he only gets 2 standard pieces of exarch wargear).

So, shining spear lord, a star lance (exarch wargear) and star cannon (other piece of wargear, like Fuegan's axe) would make sense. Also I think that prefered enemy would suit him best (transferred to any spear squad he joins). Gives shining spears a huge power boost. Assaulting after turbo-boosting is rediculous, and taking a dangerous terrain test is nothing since the squad will have skilled rider anyway (1/36 chance to loose a shining spear, and you get to charge first turn with S6/8 power weapons? No!).

The spider lord looks good. I just don't know how an upgraded spinneret rifle will fit, since spiders mainly specialize in hitting weak armor squads. Giving him upgraded dual death spinners would be an idea, or upgraded power blades like Asurmen has.

Also, let's not forget that nearly none of the Phoenix Lords are worth taking because they die easily and have no invulnerable save as well as contribute less than an Autarch, a Farseer, Yriel or Eldrad. Phoenix Lords need an overhaul in general.

@akaean: My thought on Guardians would be, roughly:
Current statline, but 4+ save.
Squad size 10-20
Standard equipment: Shuriken Catapult and Close Combat Weapon.
Options: The entire squad may exchange their Shuriken Catapults for Shuriken Pistols at no cost.
Two members of the squad may be upgraded with a anti-gravity platform at cost of the heavy weapon.
Up to three members may be given a flamer, melta gun or <insert longer range weapon here> at appropriate cost.

Also, let's not forget that nearly none of the Phoenix Lords are worth taking because they die easily and have no invulnerable save as well as contribute less than an Autarch, a Farseer, Yriel or Eldrad. Phoenix Lords need an overhaul in general.

Actually, let's forget that. Fuegan has been in my army for 4 months now, and has been doing well for 3 of those months (first one was spent figuring out how to play the build).

Yes they could use an invulnerable save, but even without it they are still rather powerful (just don't send them against Ragnar, Logan, Mephiston, Jain Zar, Asurmen, or other big characters along with banshees or other high power weapon wielding squads. It's not hard to find them good targets).

Ail-Shan wrote:

Also, let's not forget that nearly none of the Phoenix Lords are worth taking because they die easily and have no invulnerable save as well as contribute less than an Autarch, a Farseer, Yriel or Eldrad. Phoenix Lords need an overhaul in general.

Actually, let's forget that. Fuegan has been in my army for 4 months now, and has been doing well for 3 of those months (first one was spent figuring out how to play the build).

Yes they could use an invulnerable save, but even without it they are still rather powerful (just don't send them against Ragnar, Logan, Mephiston, Jain Zar, Asurmen, or other big characters along with banshees or other high power weapon wielding squads. It's not hard to find them good targets).

A statement like that merits the question: what about Baharroth, the Phoenix Lord with the weapon upgrades people least often take for their exarchs?

Well, that proves the weakness of the Phoenix Lords as they stand. You have to find weak targets for them to bully. A 200 point Phoenix Lord, should be able to fight a 200 point characture from another codex. If not, there is a flaw in the design. The need for an invulnerable save on PL's is pretty well accepted, and I would bet, is already written into any rough draft of the next Eldar codex, at GW HQ.

A 200 point Phoenix Lord, should be able to fight a 200 point characture from another codex. If not, there is a flaw in the design.

I think not. Expand that point to every aspect of every army, and the game literally becomes "who can roll the highest on their dice the most." Not a game I'm looking to play.

Fire dragons need to find targets they're good against, as do banshees. This doesn't make them weak (at least not dragons. S3 really hurts banshees).

Care to send Shrike against a trygon? Both cost virtually the same. What about Njal against Eldrad (Eldrad is even cheaper)? What about just about any character in the game against the Swarmlord? Swarmlord is expensive but if he's in assault with any of your special characters he's virtually guarenteed to win (short of Logan Grimnar who had a chance).

The logic that "this character costs so much and so should be able to kill that many points of any enemy" is horrendously flawed. There are bad match ups for everyone, some of which have the stronger unit cost less than the more expensive one (5 dragons in a serpent compared with a land raider). The game has tactics in it, meaning that you can't send everyone out against any target that costs less than them and think they'll win (many characters will have trouble with banshees simply from the massed power weapons and going second).

A statement like that merits the question: what about Baharroth, the Phoenix Lord with the weapon upgrades people least often take for their exarchs?

I said, he's the exception. He's poorly equipped I agree and would be near impossible to use well. But his speed would be very helpful in many situations. I just can't get over the S4. However his upgraded piece of exarch equipment is the fact that he takes both an upgraded gun AND the power weapon.

I have been playing a good bit, and found the reasons why people think Eldar is just fine as they are. The reasons are as follows: A Mechdar list heavy with DAVU, and Fire dragons, is very competitive at tournament point levels in the hands of an experienced player. I hear some people say that the same can be said of Footdar, but I have not been able to find proof of such.

So here is my 3rd attempt at tweaking the Eldar Codex to make it full of playable lists. I don't own Hawks, Wraithguard, or Harlequins so won't bother with them.

First my deletions: Turbo Boost is fine. Bikes and Jump infantry ought to be able to extract themselves from combat, but perhaps not get a blanket Hit and Run USR, but that is an issue for 6th ed. rules.

Next, the fix that will allow Eldar to compete with all the rapid deployment options that other races have:

Warlocks may be upgraded to Bonesingers, keep the same stat line. Equip with Shuri pistol and CCW. They have 2 psychic powers, and don't have to roll for them. Waygate (+25 points) - Once per game, prior to rolling for reserves, place a 3" diameter circular marker in base contact with the Boonesinger. The marker is impassable terrain, but does not block LOS. Treat this marker as a friendly table edge. Eldar units that begin the movement phase within 2" of the waygate, may be removed from the table and placed in reserve. Repair - (+10 points) May repair a weapon destroyed or immobilized effect on a vehicle during the shooting phase on a d6 roll of 4+. The vehicle cannot shoot a weapon repaired during this shooting phase until next turn.

Next, the fix that deals with psychic defenses:

Farseer Ghost Helm - (add) Successful psychic test rolls resulting from doubles are immune to psychic defenses such as hoods, etc. This makes Runes of Witnessing so much more valuable, that it needs a +10 point hike.

Third, the fix that makes our assault units as fast as they ought to be:

Wave Serpents - Warp Chamber - (+25 points) - Treat any part of the hull as a transport door for debarkation of the vehicle.

Now, various fixes:

Autarch - Master Strategist - Once per game, prior to rolling for reserves, designate one unit placed in reserve to gain the outflank rule.

Phoenix Lords - Battle Fate - 4+ Invulnerable Save, and count 1 unit from its aspect as troops, and also, this model confers its Exarch Powers to any unit from its aspect that it joins.

Defender Guardians – 0-1 weapon platform per 10 guardians.

Support Weapon Platforms - increase all ranges by 6"

Warp Spiders – delete Surprise Assault, change to Flux Capacitor-Assault phase warp jumps may use 3d6 and pick 2.

Falcon - BS4 - dedicated transport for Warlock Units.

Fire Prism - add Direct Fire Mode - Focused beam without blast template.

Shining Spears – -5 point cost, Withdraw Exarch power -10 points.

This makes Runes of Witnessing so much more valuable, that it needs a +10 point hike.

What? You get a small boost to getting double 1s, yet a great decrease in ability to get doubles for any other number (in order to get double 2s you can't roll a 1. To get double 3s you can't roll a one or two, and so on through 5).

There is no reason for there to be a price hike for RoWitnissing.

Good point. Didn't think that one through.

Basic wishlist changes:

1. 18" Rapid Fire Shuriken Catapults except for DA who have 18" Assault 2. Weapon is the same but DA are "one with their SC" so can accurately move and fire it.

2. Vypers become like marine attack bikes. Guardian bike with W 2 and A 2. Gain jetbike move.

3. All vehicles are WS 4. (The fluffy advanced tech of Eldar should at least match Tau with targeting computer to improve accuracy.)

4. All aspect warriors get A 2. (If all veteran SM units have A2 so should all aspect warriors.)

I like the vector rules, SS and HB specials listed above.

Craftworld characters that allow for the extras listed and bring back the best of the craftworld options. (Wraith armies, black guardians, SS/HB as troop choices, etc.)

5. Discount WS and Falcons by including the Shuriken Cannon turret in the base vehicle and then subtract said amount down by the SC cost for other options.

6. Change warp spiders to small blast 12" Assault 1 with same effects as the night spinner rules. (Same weapon just smaller effect.)

7. Discount swooping hawks so that 5 with an exarch with no upgrades costs about 100 points. (Just too pricey to ever play them now except for yo-yo hawk stupidity.)
Lose yo-yo ability - but change grenade drop template to anywhere on board when DS onto the board plus drop template on any one unit moved over in movement phase.

I'm going to commit a sin. I'm going to make a cross-codex direct comparison.

Eldar Guardian Jetbikes compared to Assault Marines.
-1 WS
(-1 BS and twin-linking more or less cancel each other)
-1 S
-1 A
+1 shot
+JSJ 6"
- special rules that spess mahrens have.
+Turbo-boost
-No deep strike

Does this actually merit the same costs? Am I missing something which makes the Guardians significantly better?

You forgot scoring status. Without it, jetbikes would be useless, just like the assault marines are. Also, an eldar jetbike is tons better than a jump pack. Guardian jetbikes are good, maybe a couple pts overcosted, but not really that much

Maybe I'm still stuck in a 3rd edition mind-set. I was really making the comparison in order to extrapolate approximately what the costs should be for Shining Spears.