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I have been playing a good bit, and found the reasons why people think Eldar is just fine as they are. The reasons are as follows: A Mechdar list heavy with DAVU, and Fire dragons, is very competitive at tournament point levels in the hands of an experienced player. I hear some people say that the same can be said of Footdar, but I have not been able to find proof of such.

So here is my 3rd attempt at tweaking the Eldar Codex to make it full of playable lists. I don't own Hawks, Wraithguard, or Harlequins so won't bother with them.

First my deletions: Turbo Boost is fine. Bikes and Jump infantry ought to be able to extract themselves from combat, but perhaps not get a blanket Hit and Run USR, but that is an issue for 6th ed. rules.

Next, the fix that will allow Eldar to compete with all the rapid deployment options that other races have:

Warlocks may be upgraded to Bonesingers, keep the same stat line. Equip with Shuri pistol and CCW. They have 2 psychic powers, and don't have to roll for them. Waygate (+25 points) - Once per game, prior to rolling for reserves, place a 3" diameter circular marker in base contact with the Boonesinger. The marker is impassable terrain, but does not block LOS. Treat this marker as a friendly table edge. Eldar units that begin the movement phase within 2" of the waygate, may be removed from the table and placed in reserve. Repair - (+10 points) May repair a weapon destroyed or immobilized effect on a vehicle during the shooting phase on a d6 roll of 4+. The vehicle cannot shoot a weapon repaired during this shooting phase until next turn.

Next, the fix that deals with psychic defenses:

Farseer Ghost Helm - (add) Successful psychic test rolls resulting from doubles are immune to psychic defenses such as hoods, etc.

Third, the fix that makes our assault units as fast as they ought to be:

Wave Serpents - Warp Chamber - (+25 points) - Unit must pass an initiative test, or suffer d6 S4 hits. Treat any part of the hull as a transport door for debarkation of the vehicle.

Now, various fixes:

Autarch - Master Strategist - Once per game, prior to rolling for reserves, designate one unit placed in reserve to gain the outflank rule.

Phoenix Lords - Battle Fate - 4+ Invulnerable Save, and count 1 unit from its aspect as troops, and also, this model confers its Exarch Powers to any unit from its aspect that it joins.

Defender Guardians – 0-1 weapon platform per 10 guardians.

Support Weapon Platforms - increase all ranges by 6"

Warp Spiders – delete Surprise Assault, change to Flux Capacitor-Assault phase warp jumps may use 3d6 and pick 2.

Falcon - BS4 - dedicated transport for Warlock Units.

Fire Prism - add Direct Fire Mode - Focused beam without blast template.

Shining Spears – -5 point cost, Withdraw Exarch power -10 points.

These certainly don't look unreasonable. Have these been playtested because they seem to be understandable padding to a "flimsy" codex.

Just a few questions before I make my mind:

Why on craftworld would anyone choose TL over 2 shots?

Are all those things (and their costs) included or are they optional?

Warp generator move seems to be much more dangerous. You wrote similar effects but you made it X time more dangerous (where X is the number of models in a unit). Every model has 1/6 chance to die as opposed to 1/6 chance that one model dies.

Wraith Lords are already forced to use 2 same weapons as TL. Did you mean just fire 2 weapons?

I don't get Vipers' Jet Bike rule. There would be too much strange RAW complications if they were vehicles (w/o skimmer, fast) and counted as jetbikes. Some explanation?

EDIT:
Master Strategist: Do you choose ONE at deployment? So granting Furious blocks +1 reserve rolls?

ArmyC wrote:
Vectored Engines: (add) This model may change facing during any friendly assault phase. Primarily designed to allow transports to spin their backside to the enemy, allow troops to hop out, then spin back during assault to regain front armor facing. Fixes the disadvantage of rear access to transports.

Not sure about this one. I will have to think about it.

Howling Banshee Exarch: cost +25, and add:
Assault Drill: Treat any transport vehicle this unit occupies as an assault vehicle. Gives Eldar an assault vehicle choice, and the threat of melee from long distance.

Not sure I like this with the above mentioned power.

Striking Scorpions – Stalker becomes Pathfinder and Stealth at +15 Increased cost to balance increased ability. Simply an effort to keep these guys alive, and make a few foot choices viable.

Autarch - in place of master strategist - May grant the scout, or furious charge USR to one troop unit or add 1 to reserve rolls. Master Strategist doesn't exist anymore, and this rule is either or with the add one to reserve rolls.

Phoenix Lords - add battle fate, and Count 1 unit from its aspect as troops, and also, this model confers its Exarch Powers to any unit from its aspect that it joins. These abilities are simply long overdue and make these models worth their points.

Not sure what battle fate is, but I'm good with the exarch powers and the one unit as troops.

Farseer – Runes of Phasing +15 – Units that deep strike within 6” of a Farseer or his transport do not scatter. Gives the most technologically advanced race in the universe a similar ability that is so prevelent in 5th edition codices.

I don't see a problem with this.

Defender Guardians – Defensive grenades +1 and lasblaster weapons This is not asking for much here. They used to have lasblasters. Again, technologically advanced society and a 12" range weapon?

No problem with Defensive grenades... whats a lasblaster?

Warp Spiders – Surprise Assault grants deep strike with no scatter. Warp Generator move is 12”, but roll dangerous terrain tests. This makes the Exarch ability worth the points, and makes their signature move more reliable, with similar negative effects.

I've never seen an Eldar player fail at DSing Warp Spiders. Maybe you get a reroll scatter, but not ignore scatter.

War Walkers - Fast Attack choice, may fire 2 of the same weapons as twin link Eldar have too many heavy choices and not enough FA choices. This moves them to their original spot on the FOC. They are paying for 2 weapons, why not allow them to use them in the less expensive mode of TL?

Why would you ever want TL weapons when you could have two separate weapons? Also if they got into FA they should get a points hike. Compared with other walkers, they're amazing as gun platforms.

Wraith Lords - may fire two of the same weapons as twin link.

Again, confused for the same reason.

Guardian Jet Bikes - Haywire Grenades +2, Plasma Grenades +1 Just a small effort to give these guys a greater role on the battle field. I can see them taking out those annoying empty Rhinos.

Seems random, but I guess

Vypers – Jet Bikes, Vectored Engines+10, Star Engines+5, Holofield+20, Spirit Stones+5 Jet bike rules eliminate fast, skimmer, and open top. It makes Vypers more survivable. The lowered costs of the options makes those options worth consideration.

This is getting sketchy since you're taking a vehicle and turning it into infantry (kinda). What would their toughness be then? How about their save? How many wounds?

Falcon - BS4 +10 Tau Targeting Array cost.

Fire Dragons – Tank Hunter becomes Selective Targeting – Unit may subtract 1 from dice rolls taken on the vehicle damage results table. Tank Hunter is pretty useless right now. This ability would allow FD to survive destroying enemy vihicles from close range.

This seems odd. I'm not sure how I feel about it.

Prince Yriel – May take up to 2 Wraithlords as a retinue. Wraithlords are cool, Yriel is Illyden, and they go for Wraithlords. It also puts Yriel on foot, or jet bike. Makes him good in melee too. Allows another way to get heavy choices on the table.

Woah... no dice. No way. One of the whole drawbacks of MCs is that they almost always can't be squadroned. That would be indescribably devastating to be able to use. As a side note, how would the Wraithsight drawback affect the squad of them then? Or are you just assuming that Yuriel uses plotonium to keep the WL on task?

Dire Avengers – Plasma grenades +1 The derth of grenades in the Eldar codex is a major problem.

You can have them if my Tyranids can get grenade options back. Right now the only ones who can get them aren't the ones who need them..

Shining Spears – A2, plasma grenades +1 Gives these guys a fighting chance to do what they are intended to do.

This would require extended playtesting.

Comments and Criticism is what I live for!

Indeed. Not the most horrible list of "fixes" I've seen. It has some things I'd immediately throw out the window, but other than that, I would agree to play against it a game or two to see how it works out.

Edit: format fail.

Why on craftworld would anyone choose TL over 2 shots?
Cancel that. Right now Wraithlords get no discount for 2 of the same weapons being TL, so either give them the discount, like Tau get, or let them shoot them seperately.

Are all those things (and their costs) included or are they optional?
I made a stab at correct costs where I thought appropriate. The +cost given is the total cost. Howling Banshee Exarchs now cost +12, so with the Assault Skill rule (mandatory) they would be +25 instead. I wanted to limit the changes. It might be better to let Assault Skills be an optional Exarch power, but that would be 3 powers.....

Warp generator move seems to be much more dangerous.
You are right again. I am trying to reduce randomness of the jump. Ideas?

Wraith Lords are already forced to use 2 same weapons as TL. Did you mean just fire 2 weapons?
Yes, referenced above.

I don't get Vipers' Jet Bike rule.
I was trying to access the eldar jet bike goodness and apply it to Vypers. Maybe too much of a stretch.

Master Strategist: Do you choose ONE at deployment? So granting Furious blocks +1 reserve rolls?
Yes. That allows you to bump some stats, but you give up that Autarch's +1. This allows you to use the Autarch differently.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I want to be able to get some troops into melee like everyone else can. The Vectored Engine idea coupled with the HB using Assault Drill may be OP. Move 12", spin around +3", debark +2", fleet +1 to 6", assault 6" = 23" to 28" assault move. Ok, forget the Vectored Engine idea. Fleet compensates, as long as we can assault from the vehicle.

Battle Fate is a 4+ invulnerable save, currently only on Asurmen.

Lasblaster is the Swooping Hawks current weapon, and formerly was used by Defender Guardians. 24" S3 AP5 A2

I've never seen an Eldar player fail at DSing Warp Spiders. Maybe you get a reroll scatter, but not ignore scatter.
I like that idea better.

Why would you ever want TL weapons when you could have two separate weapons? Also if they got into FA they should get a points hike. Compared with other walkers, they're amazing as gun platforms.
I get the TL thing. Why are they worth more points in FA? They used to be an FA choice as I understand?

Wraith Lords - may fire two of the same weapons as twin link.
change to ...
Wraithlords - eliminate the auto TL when buying the same weapon.

Guardian Jet Bikes - Haywire Grenades +2, Plasma Grenades +1
The problem is they serve no purpose except to try to stay alive untill they jump on objectives late. If you leave the stat line, how do you help them be more useful than just that?

Falcon - BS4 +10 Tau Targeting Array cost.

Prince Yriel – May take up to 2 Wraithlords as a retinue.
I am looking for a way to allow more heavy choices on the table. Perhaps a Wraithlord elite option? Maybe Wraithguard can take one as an escort.

about the jet bike vyper:

He wants crystal targetting matricies back. The equivilent of Tau's JSJ for their crisis suits (or the Eldar jet bike JSJ ability).

Most of those seem fine, but the retinue for Yriel is a huge problem. I'm more concerned that he'll be bumped up to majority T8, which is far too extreme. The ability for wraithguard to take a lord escort (has to remain within 6" of the unit or something as a form of coherency) could work.

Vectored Engines: (add) This model may change facing during any friendly assault phase. Primarily designed to allow transports to spin their backside to the enemy, allow troops to hop out, then spin back during assault to regain front armor facing. Fixes the disadvantage of rear access to transports.

This isn't a bad idea, it does give the rear-exit transports a similar treatment as Land Raiders and many other vehicles. How about Vectored Enginess allowing a single pivot in the friendly assault phase only if the Skimmer didn't move flat-out? Going fast and then braking and drift-spinning isn't really appropriate... prolly make the passengers nauseous...

Howling Banshee Exarch: cost +25, and add:
Assault Drill: Treat any transport vehicle this unit occupies as an assault vehicle. Gives Eldar an assault vehicle choice, and the threat of melee from long distance.

Negative. Eldar are not a focused assault army- With this Banshees could first turn charge (fleet). Eldar have good shooting ability, they don't also need great assault function.

Striking Scorpions – Stalker becomes Pathfinder and Stealth at +15 Increased cost to balance increased ability. Simply an effort to keep these guys alive, and make a few foot choices viable.

Giving the Stealth option isn't a bad idea, I always imagined the Scorpions as the more sneaky/move-through-cover sort of troops.

Autarch - in place of master strategist - May grant the scout, or furious charge USR to one troop unit or add 1 to reserve rolls. Master Strategist doesn't exist anymore, and this rule is either or with the add one to reserve rolls.

Maybe just needs to grant an ability to the unit of aspect warriors he joins that have matching wargear (if he has hawk wings and joins hawks, the entire unit gets something)...?
Making him magically grant abilities might be a bit much to keep track of.

Phoenix Lords - add battle fate, and Count 1 unit from its aspect as troops, and also, this model confers its Exarch Powers to any unit from its aspect that it joins. These abilities are simply long overdue and make these models worth their points.

Yes.

Farseer – Runes of Phasing +15 – Units that deep strike within 6” of a Farseer or his transport do not scatter. Gives the most technologically advanced race in the universe a similar ability that is so prevelent in 5th edition codices.

Makes sense.

Defender Guardians – Defensive grenades +1 and lasblaster weapons This is not asking for much here. They used to have lasblasters. Again, technologically advanced society and a 12" range weapon?

Dunno about the lasblasters-- shuriken tech has been the cornerstone of the guardians weapons. But I see your point about 12" range. Maybe let Shuriken Catapults become Rapid Fire 18"? Then at 12" they get their 2 shots again.
Dire Avengers would get 18" Assault 2.

Warp Spiders – Surprise Assault grants deep strike with no scatter. Warp Generator move is 12”, but roll dangerous terrain tests. This makes the Exarch ability worth the points, and makes their signature move more reliable, with similar negative effects.

Deep Strike from Surprise Assault seems fine.
Their warp generators don't need to be more dangerous-- it should be reliable in the movement phase and in their assault phase move just make one model die if they roll a double on 2d6"?

War Walkers - Fast Attack choice, may fire 2 of the same weapons as twin link Eldar have too many heavy choices and not enough FA choices. This moves them to their original spot on the FOC. They are paying for 2 weapons, why not allow them to use them in the less expensive mode of TL?

Not a terrible idea... Dunno what you mean by TL the 2 weapons, but the Fast Attack slot is ok.

Wraith Lords - may fire two of the same weapons as twin link.

Again, huh?

Guardian Jet Bikes - Haywire Grenades +2, Plasma Grenades +1 Just a small effort to give these guys a greater role on the battle field. I can see them taking out those annoying empty Rhinos.

Meh, ok.

Vypers – Jet Bikes, Vectored Engines+10, Star Engines+5, Holofield+20, Spirit Stones+5 Jet bike rules eliminate fast, skimmer, and open top. It makes Vypers more survivable. The lowered costs of the options makes those options worth consideration.

They're fast skimmers, not jetbikes.

Falcon - BS4 +10 Tau Targeting Array cost.

Maybe +15 points?
Eldar aren't dedicated ranged specialists... but I can see why this might be important to have.

Fire Dragons – Tank Hunter becomes Selective Targeting – Unit may subtract 1 from dice rolls taken on the vehicle damage results table. Tank Hunter is pretty useless right now. This ability would allow FD to survive destroying enemy vihicles from close range.

Noooooooooooooooo. Tank Hunter is ok.

Prince Yriel – May take up to 2 Wraithlords as a retinue. Wraithlords are cool, Yriel is Illyden, and they go for Wraithlords. It also puts Yriel on foot, or jet bike. Makes him good in melee too. Allows another way to get heavy choices on the table.

Noooooooo.

Dire Avengers – Plasma grenades +1 The derth of grenades in the Eldar codex is a major problem.

Ok.

Shining Spears – A2, plasma grenades +1 Gives these guys a fighting chance to do what they are intended to do.

Makes sense, they need the attacks.

If a Wraithlord has two of the same weapon they are TL. It's what happens. Other than that the rest looks pretty decent. I like the Howling Banshee assault and PL changes the most definitly.

TL weapons on Crisis Suits cost half for the 2nd weapon, where wraithlords pay full price twice and go TL. The same idea on War Walkers gets them two functional weapons, because, Hey, they paid for both! Either give Wraithlords the Crisis suit discount, or let them have two weapons. I'll take the 2 weapons, but offering both options would be even cooler.

I really like the idea of Yriel on a jetbike, but not the idea of a Wraithguard bodyguard.

I just don't feel it suits him for some reason.

Maybe something where if you take an Alatoch (probably misspelled) themed army, you get Wraithlord as an Elite slot instead of Heavy. I think that many more wraithlords would lead to abusive spam though. At 100 points they're harder to kill and cheaper than TMC. Even as an IG player, when a friend of mine spams them with the Avatar, then I have a hard time dealing with the sheer volume of T8 I have to break through. (Disclaimer, I know the Avatar is only T6) Besides, should Eldar really be a more MC heavy army than Tyranids? Really?

How about if you take Yriel, you can take 1 Wraithlord in the elite slot. In the next codex, they could give that Wraithlord some fluff, and maybe not TL his weapons.

I like the idea of wraithguard and a wraithlord running together... just "fits". I do it myself manually, but it would be a nice option to work an extra wraithlord into the mix. Actually, taking that 1 step further... a bonesinger wraithlord (why not?)... would be the optimal solution. Lots of good fluff and modeling fodder there. A "wraithherder" so-to-speak.

I guess you were kind of going the space marine route with the Vypers and treating them as attack bikes rather than as vehicles, yes? There is this strange dichotomy in the 40k army lists where you have things like attack bikes on one hand and speeders, vypers & deffkipta's on the other. I coud see why you couldn't justify taking a deffkopta as a "bike" when the warbikes are gounded and it is not. But in the Eldar army where all the bikes are flying, I think the vyper is a natural fit as an attack bike equivalent as opposed to a vehicle.

daedalus wrote:Maybe something where if you take an Iyanden (probably misspelled) themed army, you get Wraithlord as an Elite slot instead of Heavy. I think that many more wraithlords would lead to abusive spam though. At 100 points they're harder to kill and cheaper than TMC. Even as an IG player, when a friend of mine spams them with the Avatar, then I have a hard time dealing with the sheer volume of T8 I have to break through. (Disclaimer, I know the Avatar is only T6) Besides, should Eldar really be a more MC heavy army than Tyranids? Really?

Fix'd.

@Gitsplitta
Do you mean a bonesinger that has become a wraithlord or a bonesinger in general?

I was thinking of a bonesinger that became a wraithlord.... maybe you could handle it as a special charachter/squad upgrade instead of something that would take up a slot on the FOC. A 1/army type of special character... like Telion or Snickrot or whomever...

Conversely you could have the bonesinger/wraithlord as a special character HQ, with the ability to take wraithguard as his retinue. They're wraithGUARD after all.... that implies they should be guarding something!! :-)

Yeah they guard the spiritseer lol. But a bonesinger wraithlord probably wouldn't be able to bone...sing anymore due to the whole silent-spirit-in-a-construct-that-is-barely-aware aspect.

Updated Codensed No Fat Version... ready for playtesting?

Howling Banshee Exarch Power: Assault Drill: This unit may assault from their dedicated transport as if it was an assault vehicle. +20

Striking Scorpions – Stalker - Unit gains the Pathfinder, and Stealth USR. +15

Autarch – Master Strategist – The Autarch may chose one of these two options during his deployment phase. Grant either Furious Charge or the Scout USR to one troop unit, or add +1 to d6 rolls for reserves this game.

Phoenix Lords – 4+ Invulnerable Save... Count 1 unit from its aspect as a scoring unit, also, this model confers its Exarch Powers to any unit of its aspect that it joins.

Farseer – Runes of Phasing +15 – Units that deep strike within 6” of a Farseer or his transport does not scatter.

Defender Guardians – Defensive grenades +1 per model and change Suriken catapults to 18” range and RF.

Warp Spiders – Surprise Assault grants reroll of deep strike scatter dice.

War Walkers - Fast Attack FOC slot

Wraithlords – Eliminate the TL rule for using 2 of the same weapon.

Guardian Jet Bikes – Hit and Run

Vypers –Vectored Engines+10, Star Engines+5, Holofield+20, Spirit Stones+5

Falcon – Change BS3 to BS4 +15

Prince Yriel - Corsairs – Yriel may add a unit of Storm Guardians, as a retinue. Storm Guardians are a scoring unit, but do not count as a HQ or Troop choice. Master Strategist – When held in reserve and joined by Yriel, this unit gains the scout USR, and does not roll to enter the game. Instead, bring this unit into the game on any turn after turn 2.

Shining Spears Exarch Powers – Jet bike Experts – This unit gains the Hit and Run and Skilled Rider USR +25, Tactical Precision – This unit may reroll failed close combat attack rolls +25

In the new codex .....

Wraithguard - A unit of 10 wraithguard may add a Bonesinger Wraithlord as a special characture to the unit.

Wraithguard(30 ppm, elite, 3-10) - Any size may be taken as a troop if accompanied by a spiritseer. wraithcannons are 18" weapons. If the army includes a farseer, the entire squad may be fitted with runes of protection at 5 ppm, conferring a 5+ invulnerable save. If the squad numbers 10 models, the squad may purchase a Wraithlord as an upgrade character to the squad. The squad may always purchase a warlock upgrade character (in addition to the wraithlord), at the prices listed in the current eldar codex. The wraithlord may NOT purchase runes of protection

Wraithlord Same stat lines as current eldar codex except +1 A base. 90 points base

weapon options as now, but -5pts across the board, duplicate selections are 2 separate weapons. Two wraithswords may be taken, conferring rerolls in close combat and +1 A (a single wraithsword confers rerolls in close combat).

A wraithlord taken in the Heavy Support slot (i.e., not in a wraithguard squad), has access to the following upgrades:
Runes of Protection (4+ invulnerable save) at +30 points, if a farseer is taken in the army.
Legendary Essence - no longer suffers from wraithsight - at +10 pts

Weapons: Selection of one of these weapons upgrade precludes the selection of any other weapons aside from the flamer/shuricats.
Pulse laser at 25 points
D-cannon (S10 Ap2 Small blast 36" Heavy 2) roll of 6 to-wound results in ID, roll to 6 to-penetrate results in the removal of the vehicle with no saves allowed. Occupants tank an init. test to survive. at +45 points
Vibrocannon at +25 points
Shadowweaver at (depends on what the revamped version of it is) +30 points

A wraithlord taken in the HQ slot has the following compulsory upgrades:
Runes of Protection at 30 points
Legendary Essence at 10 points
Inspiring (units within 12" gain stubborn) at 20 points
Undying Hero of the Eldar - +2WS/BS +2 W +1A +1 I at 50 points
(now a 200 point WS/BS 6 S10 T8 5W 5I 4A LD10 3+/4++ MC)


May purchase dual wraithswords at +15 points
May upgrade Flamers to Heavy Flamers at +10 points
May purchase Fleet OR Reinforced Wraithbone Plate Armor (2+ save) at +25 pts


wishlisting is fun... back to work

Gwyidion - Gee, some of that sounds like Blood Angels.

My question is:

Is this enough or do they need more?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I am listening to comments from several online forums. Here is my latest version. At this point I think we are getting close to OP. Time to playtest a tone it down some.

Exarches are free.

Shuriken cannons are the base weapon for Vypers, Wave Serpents, War Walkers, Wraithlords and Falcons, and thus cost no points. All weapon options for those models are reduced by 5 points for normal weapons and by 10 points for twin linked weapons.

Eldar jet bikes gain Hit and Run and Skilled Rider USR. This applies to Shining Spears, Guardian Jet bikes, and any character that takes an Eldar jet bike.

Wave Serpents and Falcons – Tokyo Drift – Passengers may exit this vehicle at any point during the vehicles movement. Draw a straight line along the path that the vehicle moved. Place the debarking unit in deep strike formation on that line, with the center model directly on the line. This rule is in addition to the normal method of exiting a transport. This rule does not allow exit when moving flat out.

Howling Banshee Exarch Power: Assault Drill: Treat this unit’s dedicated transport as an assault vehicle. +15

Striking Scorpions – Stalker changes MTC to Pathfinder, and adds Stealth. +10

Autarch – Master Strategist – The Autarch may choose one of these two options during his deployment phase. Grant either Furious Charge or the Scout USR to one infantry unit, or he may roll for reserves in this way: roll a d6 for each eligible reserve unit, then he may add or subtract 1 to each result prior to deploying any reserves.

Prince Yriel - Corsairs – May add a unit of 10 Storm Guardians, with a Warlock, and Wave Serpent as a retinue. Storm Guardians are a scoring unit, but do not count as a HQ or Troop choice. When held in reserve, this unit gains the scout USR, and does not roll to enter the game. Instead, bring this unit into the game on any turn after turn 2. Yriel is an Autarch and so has the Master Strategist rules listed above.

Phoenix Lords – 4+ Invulnerable Save. Count 1 unit from its aspect as a scoring unit, also, this model confers its Exarch Powers to any unit of its aspect that it joins.

Farseer – Runes of Phasing +10 – Units that deep strike within 6” of a Farseer or his transport does not scatter. Runes of Witnessing – Roll 3 d6 to test psychic powers, discard the highest. You must take the remaining roll. Any roll of 7 or less from the remaining two d6 cannot be negated by psychic hoods and the like.
Eldrad gains the above Farseer abilities.

Defender Guardians – Defensive grenades +1 per model and change Suriken catapults to 18” range and RF.

Guardian Jet bikes – Every 3rd jet bike may exchange the shuriken catapults for a Shuriken cannon for +10 or a fusion gun for +7.

Warp Spiders – Surprise Assault grants reroll of deep strike scatter dice.

War Walkers – Walkers are a Fast Attack unit. Camouflage Projector – When this model is partially obscured or in area terrain, grant a +1 cover save. +10

Wraithlords – Eliminate the TL rule of 2 of the same weapon.[/color]

Vypers – Cost 55 - Delete open top and add scout. Vectored Engines+10, Star Engines+5, Holofield+15, Spirit Stones+5

Falcon – Change BS3 to BS4 +10

Shining Spears Exarch Powers – Tactical Expertise – Counter attack USR +15, Tactical Precision – This unit may reroll failed close combat attack rolls +15

@ArmyC
Your previous proposed rules were fine because they increased the value of weaker units only. Now that you boost our good and commonly used choices this is too much IMHO.

For example: our FA slots are the weakest. Now for 270pts we get 3x3WW with dual cannons? This isn't a little change. It's huge.

Gwyidion's upgrades are so OTT I really hope we won't get so much goodies in our next codex. If we'd get such D-Cannon on a BS4, T8 2+/4++ (may be fortuned, guided) MC - hello Eldar everywhere.

ArmyC wrote:


Exarches are free.

Shuriken cannons are the base weapon for Vypers, Wave Serpents, War Walkers, Wraithlords and Falcons, and thus cost no points. All weapon options for those models are reduced by 5 points for normal weapons and by 10 points for twin linked weapons.

Eldar jet bikes gain Hit and Run and Skilled Rider USR. This applies to Shining Spears, Guardian Jet bikes, and any character that takes an Eldar jet bike.

Wave Serpents and Falcons – Tokyo Drift – Passengers may exit this vehicle at any point during the vehicles movement. Draw a straight line along the path that the vehicle moved. Place the debarking unit in deep strike formation on that line, with the center model directly on the line. This rule is in addition to the normal method of exiting a transport. This rule does not allow exit when moving flat out.

Howling Banshee Exarch Power: Assault Drill: Treat this unit’s dedicated transport as an assault vehicle. +15

Striking Scorpions – Stalker changes MTC to Pathfinder, and adds Stealth. +10

Ok... I guess. You're going to see people using Banshees against troops the way they use fire dragons against vehicles. Deploy, assault, destroy, die.
I dont see anything else you've changed do anything to alter the Mech>>>>>> all characteristic of the current codex, which means you haven't really made an improvement here. We want a diversification of eldar lists, not reinforcement of the same one over and over.

Autarch – Master Strategist – The Autarch may choose one of these two options during his deployment phase. Grant either Furious Charge or the Scout USR to one infantry unit, or he may roll for reserves in this way: roll a d6 for each eligible reserve unit, then he may add or subtract 1 to each result prior to deploying any reserves.

I think enhance his timed-reserves abilities more, and leave the adding-USRs thing to PLs. He is a strategist who can fight in combat. He doesn't make his troops better, just more effective.

Prince Yriel - Corsairs – May add a unit of 10 Storm Guardians, with a Warlock, and Wave Serpent as a retinue. Storm Guardians are a scoring unit, but do not count as a HQ or Troop choice. When held in reserve, this unit gains the scout USR, and does not roll to enter the game. Instead, bring this unit into the game on any turn after turn 2. Yriel is an Autarch and so has the Master Strategist rules listed above.

The eldrad of autarches. Why take a regular one when you can have one who is way better for a comparable price (especially since the addition of the perhaps-not-so-useful retinue is a "may" and not a "must".

Phoenix Lords – 4+ Invulnerable Save. Count 1 unit from its aspect as a scoring unit, also, this model confers its Exarch Powers to any unit of its aspect that it joins.

Farseer – Runes of Phasing +10 – Units that deep strike within 6” of a Farseer or his transport does not scatter. Runes of Witnessing – Roll 3 d6 to test psychic powers, discard the highest. You must take the remaining roll. Any roll of 7 or less from the remaining two d6 cannot be negated by psychic hoods and the like.
Eldrad gains the above Farseer abilities.

PLs... ok. Farseer - why do we care about deepstriking? Who can deepstrike... warp spiders and hawks. Great... those two selections suck. Especially with what you added later to vypers and war walkers, I can't see any reason at all for taking a piece of wargear the affects two units which aren't very good. Also, you haven't fixed the problem of Eldrad being an obvious choice.

Defender Guardians – Defensive grenades +1 per model and change Suriken catapults to 18” range and RF.

Guardian Jet bikes – Every 3rd jet bike may exchange the shuriken catapults for a Shuriken cannon for +10 or a fusion gun for +7.

Warp Spiders – Surprise Assault grants reroll of deep strike scatter dice.

Best changes are to GJB squads. You haven't fixed Defenders or spiders. Even with defensive grenades, they still lose to everything but firewarriors and guardsmen. They need to be better at supporting the army, not better at not dying in assault. Warp spiders... I can't remember the last time I DS'd a squad of them. They are so fast... why would you want to?

War Walkers – Walkers are a Fast Attack unit. Camouflage Projector – When this model is partially obscured or in area terrain, grant a +1 cover save. +10

Wraithlords – Eliminate the TL rule of 2 of the same weapon.

Vypers – Cost 55 - Delete open top and add scout. Vectored Engines+10, Star Engines+5, Holofield+15, Spirit Stones+5

The changes to war walkers and vypers make everything else in fast attack obsolete. You haven't changed swooping hawks, which are by far the worst choice in the codex. You haven't made spiders appreciably better, or given spears the upgrades they really needed. You buffed the most-taken-choice (in terms of effectiveness) by making vypers better (buffs i agree with) and moved a popular HS choice to FA (a move i agree with) without boosting the other FA choices, you've moved hawks, spears and (to a lesser degree) spiders from "bad" to "why are they even listed in the codex?"

Falcon – Change BS3 to BS4 +10

Shining Spears Exarch Powers – Tactical Expertise – Counter attack USR +15, Tactical Precision – This unit may reroll failed close combat attack rolls +15

Falcon - a no brainer upgrade.

Shining spears - They are still 35 point marines. I wouldn't take them. I don't care how many rerolls they get in CC, because in the 2nd round they are still swinging with 1 S3 non-pw attack. And if they kill everything in the first round, they are 5 (at most) 35 point marines with no cover ... i.e., dead.

I've said it a couple times on various forums, eldar need protection against psychic hoods.

Something along the lines of a modification to enemy hoods, e.g never able to be hooded on lower than a 5+, or sucessful hoods must be rerolled etc etc.

Either that or rewrite the codex so that psychic powers arent the critical linchpin of the army, if fortune gets hooded and youre jetseer you're shafted ...

Currently, the only thing the Avatar is any good for is creating a fearless blob. Which implies you're running Footdar. His combat stats, while decent, are offset by him being slow, and any mobile army being able to more reliably outmaneuver your footdar troops.

While the rest of the Eldar army could use fixin' up so playing on foot can be viable, the Avatar could provide some more bonuses aside from "Fearless aura."

Remember the Court of the Young King from Codex: Craftworld Eldar? How the Avatar was able to take a bodyguard of different Exarches, and all their Powers could stack on top of the unit? In turn, I propose the following ability (the point cost is something that should still be worked out, of course):

The Young King:
The Avatar is the embodiment of Khaine's wrath, the various aspects of it combining into a sum greater than their parts. To represent this, any Aspect Warrior unit within 12" of an Avatar may "loan" its Exarch Powers to another unit within 12" of an Avatar. For example, Fire Dragons could loan their "Tank Hunters" ability to a nearby unit of Dark Reapers in this manner (that said, I'd kill for Dark Reapers to be able to take Shuriken Cannons by default, or for Reaper Launchers to be Strength 6). If an Exarch "loans" its ability, it may not use it for the remainder of the player-turn.

(of course, this would also mean fixing up some abilities, so you don't get Skyleaping Fire Dragons).

That sounds cool, but it seems easily exploited. I would not want to tone down exarch abilities to allow for this new Avatar ability.

The Avatar is good, but slow. So how can we get him into the fight sooner? Deep strike is an obvious answer but very unfluffy.

It has been mentioned, but I think fleet would help.

I keep coming back to allowing Autarchs to grant certain USR's. Kahn of the SM White Scars grants his entire army Outflank. Lysander gives Stubborn, and Vulkan does his thing. Why not allow an Autarch to grant those abilities. Increase his points, and restrict the ability to one USR per army, like the way Chapter Tactics works. That allows you to change the personality of your army and the way it plays and you only change one model.

The only ability I'd like to see toned down would be Skyleap. Other than that, I would *LIKE* this ability to be very exploitable.

Give Harlequins either the Kiss for free, or give them the original Rending rule back (to-hit rolls of 6 ignore armor and wound automatically).

Give the Death Jester some reason to exist and be used, such as giving the Shrieker Cannon "Rending."

Bring back Solitaires as an HQ choice with roughly the same killyness as a maxed DE Archon and allowing Harlequins to be taken as troops and perhaps other options (units of Death Jesters as HS or Elite choices, Mimes as scouts, etc.).

On second thought, just give me a goddamn Codex: Harlequins.

How about making Pheonix Lords an upgrade character instead of an HQ, and it makes the unit scoring, could be interesting.

No. I refuse that!

Karandras is near useless with his aspect, and Fuegan doesn't really add anything. Jain Zar, Asurmen and Baharroth I could accept being upgrade characters but the other three almost always want to be alone.

I thought about that as an idea, but considering how it would make a lot of Phoenix lords expensive models just to make a single squad scoring (and they can't leave that squad) no one would buy it. And if you dropped the cost to compensate they really wouldn't be a Phoenix Lord but just a really good exarch (you'd have to drop the stat line or people would complain). They should remain as independant characters, but could use both battle fate and the ability to confer their special rules (ie. FNP & Furious charge like Karandras & Baharroth do with their special rules) to their squad.

ArmyC wrote:After a lot of input from various sources.....

Turbo Boost - (add) Units that assault units that turbo boosted must reroll successful to hit rolls in CC.

Bikes and Jump infantry - Gain Hit and Run during CC vs. infantry units and Monstrous Creatures

Bonesinger - (same stats as a Warlock) Waygate - Place one waygate marker in the deployment zone or within 6" of an infiltrated friendly unit after the deployment phase. Friendly infantry, jetbike, jump infantry, and monstrous creatures may enter from reserves within 2" of this marker. Units may assault the turn they enter through a waygate. Also, units may exit the table and be placed into reserve during the movement phase through a waygate, the same as entering a building. If the bonesinger is not in CC and not inside a building or transport, during the movement phase, the bonesinger may forfiet movement, shooting and assault to create a 2nd waygate within 6" of his current location. No more than 2 waygates may be on the table at one time. Waygates are treated as buildings with AV 12 and energy fields.

Howling Banshee Exarch - Assault Drill: This unit may exit a transport that traveled at combat or cruising speed along the path the transport traveled during the movement phase. Treat any terrain that is not open terrain as dangerous terrain. The unit may assault in the assault phase. Cost 25.

Autarch - Master Strategist - May designate one unit placed in reserve to gain the outflank rule, or may grant the scout or infiltrate USR to one deployed unit. Can't use it on monstrous creatures.

Phoenix Lords - Battle Fate - 4+ Invulnerable Save, and count 1 unit from its aspect as troops, and also, this model confers its Exarch Powers to any unit from its aspect that it joins.

Farseer – Runes of Witnessing +25 - When taking a psychic test roll 3d6. If the resulting roll passes the test, then the ability cannot be negated by opposing abilities. If not, remove the highest dice and take the result.

Defender Guardians – Defensive grenades +1 and 0-1 weapon platform per 10 guardians.

Warp Spiders – Surprise Assault - may reroll deep strike scatter. Warp Generator move is 3d6 pick 2.

Falcon - Dedicated Transport Option

Shining Spears – Jetbike Master - This unit may make range attacks in CC, in place of normal CC attacks.

Turbo boosting is way too powerful.
No problem with hit and run
Bonesinger, way too power and easily abused. Place on bike, Turbo boost turn one, turn 2 create poral in their lines, then every close combat unit comes in and assualts and has no fear of being shot at before they get into close combat. WAY TO POWERFUL.
Banshee Assaut Drill - Don't like it. not being able to assualt is the one thing that helps to keep them in check.
Autarch - no problem with giving outflank but not scout.
Lords - Like this idea
Farseers - Too powerful Average on 3d6 is 10, so on average they pass and no one can stop them.
Warp Spiders - no problem
Falcon Spam is not balanced

Shining Spears - Hate this idea with a passion

Some army lists seem to treat the Wave Serpent as the only viable unit with the special rule "This unit MUST be upgraded with a unit of infantry and is treated as Troop if upgraded with X and Elite if upgraded with Y".

Essentially, Guardians are used to get cheaper Wave Serpents by some (and subsequently get criticized "bring some Dire Avengers and you get a unit that can actually do something useful"). They are pretty weak unless they get in range and have a huge problem and over all lack of incentive getting there. And they don't really fit in with the rest of the army. Guardians are basically GEQ while the rest of the army is not, and is suffering from having close-range assault weapons. Without adding avenger cats to them and making them cheap DA, well... adding more weapon options is the way to go.
I don't feel that one extra for a full unit of 20 is sufficient to motivate bringing them, though, it feels like a motivator to bring increasingly more Guardians is needed. Since you pay for each heavy weapon, adding up to one extra for every fifth Guardian seems a bit more appropriate and suiting their role (which is ranged support, not close combat assault which their catapults would have them do).

Here's a bit of rules clarification which would ultimately be needed in the end: Any member of the Guardian squad which is upgraded to use the heavy weapons platform may exchange his Shuriken Catapult for the heavy weapon, but any given such squad member may only use one platform at a time. (No, you may not draw line of sight from one Guardian for *all* platforms in the squad)

As for Storm Guardians... I personally have never used them, and I don't see a whole lot of them in lists. At least not for their own value (usually as mini-dragons in Serpents with full meltas). Their staying power is low, but the melee can actually protect them and since they are better equipped for close combat than most shooter troops, there is actually a place for them. However, getting there is problematic.
Warp Shroud (+5 or +10 points) - The unit may be deployed through the Deep Strike rule, even on scenarios which normally don't allow it. (?)

Falcons. How about a vehicle upgrade which states "The vehicle may fire a weapon system as if it had moved one speed category slower than it actually did". At a premium cost, of course. This is a huge upgrade since it allows both main weapons when moving!

Shining Spears (and Guardian Jetbikes possibly). You don't really need to make things better when improving them, you can just make them more cost effective