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O'Emperor.

an assault 20 rending weapon.

NO.

I'd imagine if it had been an embiggened version of an Assault Cannon that it wouldn't be Heavy 20. I would have figured something more like:

Rng24" S7 AP4 Heavy 8 Rending.

So half the range, twice the firepower, and rending instead of twin-linked as compared to the Exterminator.

Stormrider wrote:

headrattle wrote:I don't think that the Punisher would be quite so bad if it had an AP value. Even AP4 would be good, but the lack of an AP truely hamstrings it and makes it clearly not worth the points.

If it did, there would be a bunch of threads complaining how broken it is.

You can't be serious. Having the Punisher with the same stat line as the heavy bolter, or even a little worse with an AP5 would make it worth the points. Right now, the "secondary" weapons are more powerful then the main weapon. Going full autocannon would be insane, but it needs an AP just to make it useful against hoards in the open.

At first glance the model looks cool. It just looks like it would tear up infantry and hoards. But then you see its statline, and you realize that it doesn't do much. At least not as much as it should cost. You could also cut the cost quite a bit down. That would work. But right now you have the second most expensive LR that is the least useful.

Scott-S6 wrote:A battlecannon doesn't average 6 hits - half the time it misses completely.

Which is why I am not a fan of the Battle Tank, Eradicator or Demolisher.

Stormrider wrote:

headrattle wrote:I don't think that the Punisher would be quite so bad if it had an AP value. Even AP4 would be good, but the lack of an AP truely hamstrings it and makes it clearly not worth the points.

If it did, there would be a bunch of threads complaining how broken it is.

Which means it would probably be balanced just about right. Many gamers call anything that would actually give them a decent challenge "broken."

willydstyle wrote:

Stormrider wrote:

headrattle wrote:I don't think that the Punisher would be quite so bad if it had an AP value. Even AP4 would be good, but the lack of an AP truely hamstrings it and makes it clearly not worth the points.

If it did, there would be a bunch of threads complaining how broken it is.

Which means it would probably be balanced just about right. Many gamers call anything that would actually give them a decent challenge "broken."

QFT +2, the Punisher would be in every list if the main gun had AP 4.

And I completely agree that gamers that can't handle challenging aspects of a game are first to yell "broken".

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:You TCav don't kill their own pts worth? you must have some dreadful luck, those things are insanely killy.

When an entire army shoots everything they have, along with the kitchen sink and the house the sink was in, they take a beating.

But then the rest of my army is ignored for a couple of turns and some times they make it there. Most of the time at least one squad is dead before that ever happens.

imweasel wrote:

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:You TCav don't kill their own pts worth? you must have some dreadful luck, those things are insanely killy.

When an entire army shoots everything they have, along with the kitchen sink and the house the sink was in, they take a beating.

But then the rest of my army is ignored for a couple of turns and some times they make it there. Most of the time at least one squad is dead before that ever happens.

Ah, one of those units.

That's how I used to feel about my dreadnoughts back in 3rd ed. congratulations you killed my ven dread, that allowed my 4 rhinos to live. Guess which you should have shot at?

bravelybravesirrobin wrote:Ah, one of those units.

That's how I used to feel about my dreadnoughts back in 3rd ed. congratulations you killed my ven dread, that allowed my 4 rhinos to live. Guess which you should have shot at?

Yep. It let's my LF's shoot for several turns without worrying to much about return fire.

You are correct that most army's have to kill them before they make it to their lines. They did well for me at 'ard boyz this year though.

Terminus wrote:

Scott-S6 wrote:A battlecannon doesn't average 6 hits - half the time it misses completely.

Which is why I am not a fan of the Battle Tank, Eradicator or Demolisher.

One is a waste time. Personally, I use four and make sure to target tighty clumped squads - deep strikers, squads forced to disembark due to shooting, squads that have been tank shocked to one side. A couple will miss but the one or two that hit will annihilate the squad.

I think the punisher is really only worth while in a for fun list. As other have said when you combo it with Pask it becomes pretty good, especially at killing MC's. However, I hardly think that justifies taking one over another Russ. When you get down to it, the Demolisher and Executioner are just better.

The punisher is a nice buy imho against orks whose lightly armoured vehicles and boyz feel the pain.

I'd rather have 20 chances to glance/pen a trukk full of nasty coming at me then one ordnance template that might be subject to a bad scatter and not getting the trukk at all...

It's role is anti-light vehicle/infantry (throw a heavy flamer on the front for free) at which it does well since orks and so forth are gonna come at you and get in your face anyways so you don't need long range. Dropping a hevy flamer template and 20 shots into even a 30 strong mob is gonna leave a mark...

I'd rather let the 75 point Hydra blow the Trukk, and let my Executioner drop 5 plasma templates onto the tightly packed Boyz inside of the crater. I've had Executioners put more than 30 wounds onto units in crater-formation, far more than the Punisher will ever do.

IG doesn't rely on masses of generalist units doing kinda okay against miscellaneous stuff. You have a dozen specialist units who all work together to wipe armies off of the table. There's really no place for the Punisher in relation to the other various, cheaper heavy weapon platforms in IG heavy support.

I agree. You don't need an anti personnel tank in the Punisher when the Hellhound does it so much better.