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Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

And later on they killed a CSM in one shot with a lasgun. Mind you it was a hotshot long-las... but still.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/27 03:36:11


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Matt65 wrote:bolter ridiculous?? check this out... its called the AA-12 shotgun. about 1min into it it says this full auto shotgun has granade rounds that blow up 1/2 second after impact. just like a boltgun.Hell it even looks like a boltgun !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syog9ETZ96g


The AA-12 is a cool gun with no battlefield role. The range is inadequate for anything but sweeping buildings, and the gun is too big for that.

Take the same gun and give it a larger calibre and sub-sonic rounds and you've made it even less sensible - and that's the bolter. Which is why people say the bolter is a very cool idea but quite a ridiculous one.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/27 04:03:01


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User



Michigan

I would change the rule where you can't shoot infantry inside of vehicles. This would allow us to shoot at infantry in vehicles and buildings.

I started to play 40K again after a 15+ years break from it. The very 1st battle field I set up I brought out all my old buildings and once I found out that you had to destroy the building before you can shoot at the guys inside, just like vehicles. From then on, I replaced all of my buildings with ruined buildings on all of my battle fields.
   
Made in gb
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot




Scotland

Boredflak1066 wrote:I would change the rule where you can't shoot infantry inside of vehicles. This would allow us to shoot at infantry in vehicles and buildings.

I started to play 40K again after a 15+ years break from it. The very 1st battle field I set up I brought out all my old buildings and once I found out that you had to destroy the building before you can shoot at the guys inside, just like vehicles. From then on, I replaced all of my buildings with ruined buildings on all of my battle fields.


For example the Tau Devilfish. There is no gaps/wholes, do the bullets just phase through the metal?

~You can sleep when you're dead.~
 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





syanticraven wrote:
Boredflak1066 wrote:I would change the rule where you can't shoot infantry inside of vehicles. This would allow us to shoot at infantry in vehicles and buildings.

I started to play 40K again after a 15+ years break from it. The very 1st battle field I set up I brought out all my old buildings and once I found out that you had to destroy the building before you can shoot at the guys inside, just like vehicles. From then on, I replaced all of my buildings with ruined buildings on all of my battle fields.


For example the Tau Devilfish. There is no gaps/wholes, do the bullets just phase through the metal?


It would a lot more sense to change it so that you could shoot troops inside buildings or open topped vehicles, but not in closed vehicles. Basically if the troops can shoot out, you can shoot them back.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in gb
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot




Scotland

sebster wrote:
syanticraven wrote:
Boredflak1066 wrote:I would change the rule where you can't shoot infantry inside of vehicles. This would allow us to shoot at infantry in vehicles and buildings.

I started to play 40K again after a 15+ years break from it. The very 1st battle field I set up I brought out all my old buildings and once I found out that you had to destroy the building before you can shoot at the guys inside, just like vehicles. From then on, I replaced all of my buildings with ruined buildings on all of my battle fields.


For example the Tau Devilfish. There is no gaps/wholes, do the bullets just phase through the metal?


It would a lot more sense to change it so that you could shoot troops inside buildings or open topped vehicles, but not in closed vehicles. Basically if the troops can shoot out, you can shoot them back.


In buildings it assumes they duck behind cover after they fire so you cant shoot them unless it is with a gun that ignores terrain as in passes through it.
As with a open top vehicle, they usually move extremely quickly and models do not always stay on the hull, they hide, any that do are usually on mounted weapons and you can kill them with a weapon destroyed result.

It makes more sense since on some vehicles the gap is the size of a bolter and shooting through one of them when it is stationary nevermind moving is going to be a larger chance then what can be portrayed on a dice or even 2.

~You can sleep when you're dead.~
 
   
Made in us
Raging Ravener





Units cannot turbo boost in their scout move
   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout





Raleigh, NC

I'd have them bring back the rules for "Overwatch" in the main rulebook.
   
Made in us
Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine




Between Alpha and Omega, and a little to the left

Take away chimera's 6 fire points. Seriously.

Want to help support my plastic addiction? I sell stories about humans fighting to survive in a space age frontier.
Lord Harrab wrote:"Gimme back my leg-bone! *wack* Ow, don't hit me with it!" commonly uttered by Guardsman when in close combat with Orks.

Bonespitta's Badmoons 1441 pts.  
   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout





Raleigh, NC

sebster wrote:
Matt65 wrote:bolter ridiculous?? check this out... its called the AA-12 shotgun. about 1min into it it says this full auto shotgun has granade rounds that blow up 1/2 second after impact. just like a boltgun.Hell it even looks like a boltgun !!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syog9ETZ96g


The AA-12 is a cool gun with no battlefield role. The range is inadequate for anything but sweeping buildings, and the gun is too big for that.

Take the same gun and give it a larger calibre and sub-sonic rounds and you've made it even less sensible - and that's the bolter. Which is why people say the bolter is a very cool idea but quite a ridiculous one.


It does have a battlefield role in the urban combat arena. Suppression and clearing buildings.
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Ironhide wrote:It does have a battlefield role in the urban combat arena. Suppression and clearing buildings.


It has an intended use for suppression and clearing buildings. Given that no nation has actually used the things to do that, the point remains.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout





Raleigh, NC

The US Army uses shotguns in Iraq. For crowd control, door breaching, and clearing buildings. Hell, a shotgun has more effectiveness than most assault rifles.
   
Made in us
Nigel Stillman





Austin, TX

Bring back a movement stat.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






Godro254 wrote:I would get rid of the 'No assalting after firing a rapid fire weapon', it's soooo unrealistic


You can only assault after firing an assault weapon. You can't do anything else if you fire a rapid fire weapon.
   
Made in gb
Purposeful Hammerhead Pilot




Scotland

Kevin949 wrote:
Godro254 wrote:I would get rid of the 'No assalting after firing a rapid fire weapon', it's soooo unrealistic


You can only assault after firing an assault weapon. You can't do anything else if you fire a rapid fire weapon.


Same rule applies for heavy doesn't it?
(na assault when fired)

~You can sleep when you're dead.~
 
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard






syanticraven wrote:
Kevin949 wrote:
Godro254 wrote:I would get rid of the 'No assalting after firing a rapid fire weapon', it's soooo unrealistic


You can only assault after firing an assault weapon. You can't do anything else if you fire a rapid fire weapon.


Same rule applies for heavy doesn't it?
(na assault when fired)


Ya. Only weapons with "assault" in the description field or whatever it is called allow you to assault after firing. Certain special cases apply of course.
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

So basically he wants Rapid Fire weapons to gain the Assault special rule.


Kinda like how Pistols have it as part of the Pistols rule.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/29 19:35:55


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Burtucky, Michigan

The Odessey wrote:Add some Forge World stuff to the regular codexes! The FW books are sooo expensive to ship to the US.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, that or give guard a better armor save. Everything and their mother busts through A5+



Oh JEEZ, you Imperials are SUCH BABIES

Orks have a 6 save. 6! I dont complain about that. Im used to the fact that I go last in assaults, and only get to roll FNP and the occasional cybork save. Seriously if our giant mobs (yes yours and mine) got better saves it would REALLY mess up the balance issue in the game.
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Also, you CAN give Guard a better save. By playing Veterans with Carapace. And unlike Orks, you can play an entire army with only 4+ saves (Orks can only have one squad with 4+ saves, and most people think that squad's overpriced).

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/29 23:06:29


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Legionnaire




Kansas

I would either want Hive commander to work while the tyrant is in reserves or let the lictor assault out of deep strike (that would make them a viable choice)
... Or make Librarian Dreadnoughts Psykers... Wings and Lance in one turn would be awesome...

Khador 35 pts
Malifaux guild
W/D/L 8/2/6 
   
Made in us
Screamin' Stormboy





Meganobz can take a painboy (and cyborks) and a bosspole. One Meganob can take a Kannon for 10pts.

Time ta make sometin' fun!  
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





syanticraven wrote:In buildings it assumes they duck behind cover after they fire so you cant shoot them unless it is with a gun that ignores terrain as in passes through it.


A unit standing in a forest or in a ruined building will duck behind cover after firing, that’s not a unique ability for buildings. Yet you can shoot troops in forests or ruins. You can see this in how city fighting actually plays out, not every building containing the enemy has had to be brought down with AT weapons or satchel charges, while they are tougher to kill than in the open, it isn’t impossible.



Ironhide wrote:The US Army uses shotguns in Iraq. For crowd control, door breaching, and clearing buildings. Hell, a shotgun has more effectiveness than most assault rifles.


Yes, they use shotguns. They don’t use AA-12s, which is the weapon being discussed for it’s bolter like qualities. Unless you’re going to claim all shotguns are like bolters?

Your claim that a shotgun has more effectiveness than an assault rifle is very odd as effectiveness is situational. In close quarters the strengths of an assault rifle – range, accuracy and suppressive fire, are minimised, allowing the shotgun’s stopping power to become more desirable.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/05/31 03:42:08


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout





Raleigh, NC

sebster wrote:

Ironhide wrote:The US Army uses shotguns in Iraq. For crowd control, door breaching, and clearing buildings. Hell, a shotgun has more effectiveness than most assault rifles.


Yes, they use shotguns. They don’t use AA-12s, which is the weapon being discussed for it’s bolter like qualities. Unless you’re going to claim all shotguns are like bolters?

Your claim that a shotgun has more effectiveness than an assault rifle is very odd as effectiveness is situational. In close quarters the strengths of an assault rifle – range, accuracy and suppressive fire, are minimised, allowing the shotgun’s stopping power to become more desirable.


No, I'm not saying a shotgun is like a bolter. I'm saying a shotgun has a battlefield role, and since the AA-12 is basically an enhanced version of a shotgun, it will have the same battlefield role and then some. Since with the AA-12 you no longer have to pause to get a grenade and lob it into the room, you just fire the AA-12 into it.

Considering the situation is going to be urban combat for the foreseeable future, since it the enemies easiest way of evening the playing field against western forces, I see shotguns (and weapons like them) as being the most effective weapon for that style of warfare. A shotgun is more effective than an assault rifle because a shotgun just requires you to point in the direction of the enemy and fire. Assault rifles require you to aim and fire. So you gaining precious seconds by using a shotgun. Even then the shotgun is more apt to score a hit, maybe not a killing shot, but wounding is most times better. Because then you are taking two of the enemy out of the picture. The guy who is wounded and the guy trying to help him.
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





Ironhide wrote:No, I'm not saying a shotgun is like a bolter. I'm saying a shotgun has a battlefield role, and since the AA-12 is basically an enhanced version of a shotgun, it will have the same battlefield role and then some. Since with the AA-12 you no longer have to pause to get a grenade and lob it into the room, you just fire the AA-12 into it.

Considering the situation is going to be urban combat for the foreseeable future, since it the enemies easiest way of evening the playing field against western forces, I see shotguns (and weapons like them) as being the most effective weapon for that style of warfare. A shotgun is more effective than an assault rifle because a shotgun just requires you to point in the direction of the enemy and fire. Assault rifles require you to aim and fire. So you gaining precious seconds by using a shotgun. Even then the shotgun is more apt to score a hit, maybe not a killing shot, but wounding is most times better. Because then you are taking two of the enemy out of the picture. The guy who is wounded and the guy trying to help him.


Yes, shotguns have battlefield roles, and are used by modern militaries. But the things that make the AA-12 different to a shotgun and more like a bolter are not sufficiently desirable given the increased size and weight of the weapon - really negative features when you're looking to move through a house room by room. This is why no military has ordered the AA-12 in any significant number, and it is fair to say the weapon is not practical.

“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in ca
Decrepit Dakkanaut





That AA-12 looks like a biatch to reload.

Incidentally, and this is hearsay, but I've heard that the whole "wounding is better than killing" only works against a conscript military where they bother doing things like recovering the wounded, or following the Geneva Conventions with regard to surrender; what I'd heard was that bodies of insurgents in Iraq and Afghanistan were recovered with multiple 5.56 holes in them, but had continued to fight until they'd bled out or taken a fatal hit.
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Indeed, as any army in 40k would tell you, fanatacism and sheer stubbornness can make up for lack of skill and training...

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say





Portland

change the BS of scouts to 4, its a complete slap in the face to every bit of fluff about scouts in the entire 40k universe. the daily rituals of a space marine include at least 3 diferent periods of marksmanship training on top of everything else, and this is done every single days, no exceptions. GW is saying that guardsmen shot through a 3-4 month training pipe are on par with 9 foot tall superhumans who train in the art of death every day of their lives? sorry but... BULLSH*T

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2010/06/08 19:43:40


actiondan wrote:According to popular belief I cannot use drop pods because only the Imperium can organize itself enough to put 10 men in a container and fire it at a planet.
 
   
Made in us
Apprehensive Inquisitorial Apprentice






Brother Heinrich wrote:change the BS of scouts to 4, its a complete slap in the face to every bit of fluff about scouts in the entire 40k universe. the daily rituals of a space marine include at least 3 diferent periods of marksmanship training on top of everything else, and this is done every single days, no exceptions. GW is saying that guardsmen shot through a 3-4 month training pipe are on par with 9 foot tall superhumans who train in the art of death every day of their lives? sorry but... BULLSH*T


if this was true evey space marine would have T 7, S 7, 3 wounds, 3 attacks, 3+inv save, fearless,stubborn,feel no pain,furious charge and acute senses.

witch would put a tactical squad at about 1200 points. BUT i do agree with you. If a space marine finishes scout training then moves to a devistatior squad, then into the assault squads/bikes/speeders. by the time they would get a chance to join a tactical squad each space maine woud have BS5 WS5 S5 T5 W2 I5 A2 LD 10 armed with boltgun,boltpistol,krak&frag and a CCW.

I like the old way better. Scouts move up to Tactical, from there they eather stay or move to a catigory there better in (fast attack,Heavy or even Vet.)

Silence is golden but Duct tape is silver
 
   
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Loyal Necron Lychguard






you forgot preferred enemy.
   
Made in us
Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say





Portland

Matt65 wrote:
Brother Heinrich wrote:change the BS of scouts to 4, its a complete slap in the face to every bit of fluff about scouts in the entire 40k universe. the daily rituals of a space marine include at least 3 diferent periods of marksmanship training on top of everything else, and this is done every single days, no exceptions. GW is saying that guardsmen shot through a 3-4 month training pipe are on par with 9 foot tall superhumans who train in the art of death every day of their lives? sorry but... BULLSH*T


if this was true evey space marine would have T 7, S 7, 3 wounds, 3 attacks, 3+inv save, fearless,stubborn,feel no pain,furious charge and acute senses.

witch would put a tactical squad at about 1200 points. BUT i do agree with you. If a space marine finishes scout training then moves to a devistatior squad, then into the assault squads/bikes/speeders. by the time they would get a chance to join a tactical squad each space maine woud have BS5 WS5 S5 T5 W2 I5 A2 LD 10 armed with boltgun,boltpistol,krak&frag and a CCW.

I like the old way better. Scouts move up to Tactical, from there they eather stay or move to a catigory there better in (fast attack,Heavy or even Vet.)

nonsense, the gap is in experience is far less radical, when you think about it, most scouts spend decades in the 10th company, that's a lot of time in which to hone your skills of marksmanship and hand to hand, most guardsmen don't even live a year after joining.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/06/09 01:06:09


actiondan wrote:According to popular belief I cannot use drop pods because only the Imperium can organize itself enough to put 10 men in a container and fire it at a planet.
 
   
 
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