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Melissia wrote:IE, "I want everything they have, but better!"

I don't think that'll go over well.

Depends.

If we let them have the Dark Angels codex's statlines, there's no real problem...

I would. I'd say Grey Knights Grandmasters should be better, and should be the deadliest man-sized model


Although technically speaking no Marine is man-sized.

Silly, nobody actually plays GKs.

Tzeentchling9 wrote:I want my Thousand Sons to make those pansy Eldar Farseers look like IG Sanctioned Psykers.

Yeah pretty much. We're tapping directly into the font of Magic and Psychic Might at its source and we have 10,000+ years of experience.

And the Mark of Tzeentch already costs triple the points of Slaanesh and does less...

You do realize some of the Eldar Seers have far more practical experience and not to mention talent than that measly 10,000 years(most of which has been spent cowering in the Warp or as something that has to worry when the Dustbuster comes around) right?

Yeah but when Njal is the best psyker.. there is a problem.

Yeah, Codex Creep.

Not really controllable, backgroundwise.

Also, people really underestimate sanctioned psykers... but that's an issue for another thread.

I repeat what I said before: I want Psychic powers to take a more support form. Doombolt should remain, it's Iconic, as should Warptime. The Eldar Codex is what I think all psychic powers should be like. Support, not another weapon. And if they are "another weapon" They should Annihalate things. Take Doombolt for example. 18" S4 AP3 Assault 3. Thats all well and good, but they should make it a Barrage weapon, so it just completly annihilates whatever it hits. Make sorcerers something dangerous, that the enemy almost NEEDS to kill fast. Do this with every psyker. Psykers in general (IMHO) need to be buffed.

Leave Warptime as it is. Maybe buff Gift of Chaos somehow, but thats only a Maybe.

Wind of Chaos: The Eldar have a move that allows their units to reroll failed armor saves, so change WoC to the opposite; Enemies have to reroll passed armor saves.

Teleport: Range 12" The sorcerer can open up a warp portal near a unit and on another point on the battlefield. The affected unit may move up to 18 inches, ignoring all modifiers. They may not teleport into close combat, nor can they end their teleportation inside of a unit or Impassible Terrain. They must end this move within 12 inches of the Sorcerer.

Teleport would be game changing, as would Wind of Chaos.

There is so much that GW could do with Psykers that they don't seem to want to, it makes me a sad panda.

Slarg232 wrote:Psykers in general (IMHO) need to be buffed.

On THIS, I agree. Sanctioned Psykers in Dark Heresy are far more powerful than they ever were in tabletop..

Melissia wrote:

Slarg232 wrote:Psykers in general (IMHO) need to be buffed.

On THIS, I agree. Sanctioned Psykers in Dark Heresy are far more powerful than they ever were in tabletop..

.... your just agreeing because your the witch hunters.


I'm on to you. Don't think I'm not, cuz I am.

Yeah the whole taking the risk of Perils of the Warp for abilities that aren't even better than your average gun thing bothered me.

"You can pay 25 points for a Multi-Melta that doesn't roll 2D6 to pen and can blow up in your face yeah!"

Nitros14 wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:@Nitros14:

Who said I wanted TS to get a boost?
Eff the Dust Buckets is more like it.

You and your bloated tubs of lard will suffer for this outrage.

Since when was Sanctjud friends with Jervis Johnson?

Anyway on topic: In terms of support Psychic powers for chaos, I miss the Mass mutation power from the previous book. That spell was fun. Basically it was role a d6, and a roll of 2-6 provided a single turn buff (such as +1 str) to the unit the spell was targeting.

Nitros14 wrote:Yeah the whole taking the risk of Perils of the Warp for abilities that aren't even better than your average gun thing bothered me.

"You can pay 25 points for a Multi-Melta that doesn't roll 2D6 to pen and can blow up in your face yeah!"

I know. Warptime is really the only power I use in the entire codex, though I have been looking at Lash and Gift of Chaos, but still, there needs to be something more than just more weapons.

Gift is useful verse blood angels cause you single out the priest which makes them lose FNP and FC.

But yes psychic powers need to make more powerful. I want to field a null rod and not feel like its a waste of points.

candy.man wrote:

Nitros14 wrote:

Sanctjud wrote:@Nitros14:

Who said I wanted TS to get a boost?
Eff the Dust Buckets is more like it.

You and your bloated tubs of lard will suffer for this outrage.

Since when was Sanctjud friends with Jervis Johnson?

Anyway on topic: In terms of support Psychic powers for chaos, I miss the Mass mutation power from the previous book. That spell was fun. Basically it was role a d6, and a roll of 2-6 provided a single turn buff (such as +1 str) to the unit the spell was targeting.

Maybe, but still, I think that such a spell would be better for Space Marines instead of CSM. Space Marines should Buff, CSM should Debuff, IMHO. Just would help reinforce more evil. Same with Dark Eldar and Eldar, Light should buff, Dark should debuff.

I have no idea what Nids would do, nor Orks, to tell the truth.

Dark Eldar don't use Psykers, they see Psykers as play things.

Mass Mutation wasn't complete fun and games though. On a roll of 1, the unit incurred wounds. If you rolled a higher number as well (like 4, 5, 6), the unit wound get more mutation type stuff like rending, poisoned attacks and fleet IIRC.

Necrosis wrote:Dark Eldar don't use Psykers, they see Psykers as play things.

Fair enough then. Never used the DE, my mistake.

candy.man wrote:Mass Mutation wasn't complete fun and games though. On a roll of 1, the unit incurred wounds. If you rolled a higher number as well (like 4, 5, 6), the unit wound get more mutation type stuff like rending, poisoned attacks and fleet IIRC.

Oh I know. I am not saying they shouldn't add a spell like this back, but the main focus of the CSM (IMHO) should be killing/debuffing, and with Teleport, repositioning.

In all honesty, just make a little addon booklet for legions. So that you could field a world eater or whatever army.

And leave the normal dex for new players or Black Legion/Renegade chapters.

@Slarg232
I agree.

I think the important factor should be synergy. At the moment, all the spells chaos have are shooty yet offer little synergy or benefit to the army. Paying 10 points for Doombolt is not as beneficial as paying 10 points for another meltagun. The spells should help the HQ "lead by example" by providing beneficial buffs/debuffs or enemy wounds.

Defiler upped to 5 in a squad and only cost 20 pts.

15 Defilers at 300 pts woooooooooooot

I think anything more legion specific would be great. The chaos gods are cool and all. and it's easy to see where those units are, and shine greatly.

But more legion specific things, something that maybe mirrors the Codex: Space Marines a little would be great. Multiple Chaos Lord Uniques. I think it would be great to see cultists in there somewhere.. Considering they exist and fight in nearly every space marine/csm novel.

It'd be neat to see awesome new characters with retinues of some sort (perhaps heretics) working in an awesome demonic parody of the IG with Commisars


On that note, is there ever going to be a "renegade guard codex" ? I mean wheres the love for the Daemon Worshippers without power armor?

Daemons back, not necessarily the ones from Caemons but at the very least marked!

Ditto Greater Daemons

Ditto fast attack daemons, at the very least furies. The current fast attack section for chaos is pathetic.

More daemon engines, bring in some forgeworld stuff like the blight drone

cult termies back

god specific vehicle upgrades (sonic weapons, plague launchers, magic towers, threshing blades)

more god specific wargear

more than one generic daemon weapon

Vets have the ability to buy vet skills (i.e. USRs)

Possessed buy their powers or at the very least every random power needs to be equally useful (or at the very, very least roll before deployment)

Marks not icons, icons are for summoning/deepstriking marks are what give the powers

Cults get a free champion if fielded in their sacred number

A special character for each legion or/ an ability to buy a power for your lord that designates which legion he leads, opening up the force org in some way or giving special powers (i.e. a night lords character who gives every chaos marine the option to buy infiltrate)

Chaos cultists as a 0-1 choice with stuff like melta bombs/ demo charges to represent a sabotage theme

The return of purchasable daemon gifts/mutations for lords - pointed appropriately high but to give the option of letting your lord/prince become really nasty

More and more varied psychic powers but lash toned down considerably i.e. make it pavane.

fix the mark of tzeentch, auto-cast powers and/or multi-cast powers (maybe the first one is auto cast, the 2nd is cast, the 3rd is cast on 3 dice or some variant of that)

fix t-sons so they're good at something

pts increase for plague marines

I don't really want to see Legion rules returning. They're too gimmicky and limiting. I liked the marks that the 3.5ed codex had, as they allowed you to build both fluffy Legion armies and custom CSM warbands, unlike the Legion army rules.

So I would like to see chaos marks back for every unit, with unique options opened up if you take them. Legion Terminators or Chosen missing marks that the regular cultist troopers possess is a complete travesty. Why are the fething CHOSEN lacking powers that the regular cultists have!?

I think the theme of the CSM is chaotic power. Becoming a chaos devotee should make them more powerful than a loyalist (otherwise what exactly were they tempted to chaos for?), but at the cost of chaotic randomness. Daemon weapons or Bile's enhanced warriors in the current codex are a good example of that. Chaos Dreadnoughts are not (they've got the randomness, but not the power it should bring!).

Fixed daemonic steeds ftw

And you would do this... how?

Just saying "fix X unit" is useless... at least give some idea on how you'd do it.

Rules for Legions and some Daemon allies allowance.

Slarg232 wrote:I don't think that would work, for the fact that it does indeed break a few eggs. They need to keep all the Marines together, so that players who have 500 some marines aren't forced to buy 3 codices or are forced to not use half of their models.

Thing is, I realistically don't see the Legions getting more than a fluff treatment in a single unified CSM book. And IMO the Legions and missing LatD elements are things that could give Chaos a pretty quick injection of cool.

But this is a wish thread, so I guess realism is kinda irrelevant.

1) Cultists.
Everything from the Black Library books to the Dawn of War PC games emphasize that Chaos uses cheap disposable troops (both with and against their will). Note that this is different from Traitor IG. It also makes the Lost and the Damned viable again.

2) Chaos Dreadnoughts that are worth taking.
I would like something that I don't have to field far away from the rest of my army. Allowing them to deep-strike would be nice. A new updated model would also be nice (though Forgeworld is becoming more attractive).

3) Um...Legion specific rules (I know, I know).
Without these, Chaos Space Marines simply lose a lot of their flavor. Also, while I don't care for Obliterator spam, my Iron Warriors would like their Basilisk back.

4) A Demon Prince model that's less demonic and more Space Marine-ish.
I don't field Demons or Defilers, and I'd like to think that some Chaos Space Marine champions can be elevated to immortality without becoming all mutated and such.