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Source? My knowledge of Marine biology is hardly perfect, and the info I quoted is probably outdated.

Lexicanum.


it say marines become a Brother between the ages of 16-18 and further down the page it says they recieve the 16th-19th implants at this time. the Black Carapace is one of them.

Forget carapace forget body gloves its all about...

THONGS WITH THE EMPORERS FACE ON!!!!!

Melissia wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:Read Legion. The Alpha Legion to this day never even fights. All they do is Espionage.

No, because I do not like to read stupid.

A Marine has as much chance of fitting in with the day to day lives of common humans as an Ork does. I don't care what craptastic BL author of the month says otherwise, it is a biological impossibility for Marines to do such undercover work amongst ordinary humans-- they're too damn huge, they're too damn muscular, and they're too damn obviously mutated beyond human. Just the black carapace alone would show that, making Marines singularly unsuitable for, say, infiltrating cults and uncovering their connections That is why the Inquisition doesn't USE Marines for that purpose-- they SUCK at it.

That book was written by Dan Abnett who shapes most of their fluff. And the Alpha Legion has always used regular humans to do most of their fighting. That's what they're known for. This has been written repeatedly in the codexes. Also SM scouts are known for being very good, guess what?, scouts. One day Melissia you'll have to admit that a Space Marine can can be a capable soldier and may have a few abilities that can at least match a Guardsmen.

And one day you might be able to read my posts and see that I never said they weren't capable soldiers

Grey Templar wrote:Lexicanum.

No really, source?

lexicanum cites White Dwarf 98.

happy now?

Melissia wrote:And one day you might be able to read my posts and see that I never said they weren't capable soldiers

Grey Templar wrote:Lexicanum.

No really, source?

how about instead you check your 1200 posts and find me one that says something along the lines of "Space Marines did ok here I guess".

It also says in the current SM codex that they must have the black carapace to operate power suits.

It has been covered in more detail 5+ times in WD in the last 20 years, and Index astartes.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:how about instead you check your 1200 posts and find me one that says something along the lines of "Space Marines did ok here I guess".

I'm not the one throwing accusations around, so I don't need to back them up.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:It also says in the current SM codex that they must have the black carapace to operate power suits.

It has been covered in more detail 5+ times in WD in the last 20 years, and Index astartes.

Yep. And the Black Carapace is a very obvious mutation / genetic implant / whatever you want to call it.

Melissia wrote: Yep. And the Black Carapace is a very obvious mutation / genetic implant / whatever you want to call it.

Not that obvious, since aside from the armour interface, it's under the skin.

Yes, under the skin-- but how far? Skin isn't perfectly opaque, and the Black Carapace is quite differently colored.

well, its obvious when a marine isn't wearing his armour.


Black Carapace is the very last implant, given when a scout has beed deemed worthy of it.

Melissia wrote:Yes, under the skin-- but how far? Skin isn't perfectly opaque, and the Black Carapace is quite differently colored.

So? You have a largish guy (not unnaturally so, since current fluff seems to suggest that even unmodified humans are commonly over 7 foot tall) with dark skin. Given that the majority of the galaxy's residents have never even seen a Space Marine with his armour on, how many are going to recognise him as anything out of the ordinary with it off?

Not really, Cain is described as roughly two meters tall (roughly seven feet), and almost invariably the tallest person in any given room.

Marines would be a foot taller than he is, at least, and a helluvalot muscular.

marines are always at least 7ft tall. some are taller, but it wouldn't be abnormal to see an extreamly muscular 7 foot guy walking around.

especially when BL books do mention that there are people who reach that height without modification.

I know a legion that wears nothing under their Power Armour... The Thousand Sons! *grin* No one in it to wear anything! .. Well, except the power armour.. *shrug*

Grey Templar wrote:marines are always at least 7ft tall. some are taller, but it wouldn't be abnormal to see an extreamly muscular 7 foot guy walking around.

Try eight feet minimum. Catachan, whom are at least seven feet on average, are dwarfed by Astartes.

Lexicanum actually says 6 ft, i was increasing it to 7 ft because its source was old.

Chatachans may be "dwarfed" by a Marine, but the actual size is probably not abnormal, not common, but not unheard of.

Size difference is likely to be in the Chest and abdominal regions and not height. another 6-8 inches would be enough to create an aura of mass, but wouldn't stick out if a marine was in an area populated or frequented by larger human specimens.




Hive dwellers will tend to be shorter in height. a combonation of lower nutrition and poor living conditions.

those who live on Agri or Feral worlds are likely much bigger then those in the Industrial sections.


Worlds that are big commercial centers would have all manner of peoples. some would reach Astartes height.

*shrug* I've always read it as eight feet. I have no source for this, but I laugh at the idea of them being six feet. Catachan are larger than that.

Melissia wrote:I doubt they wear anything other than their power armor. And in fact, their power armor is described as so difficult to get out of they rarely remove it anyway.

I disagree. Ahriman hardly ever wears power armor in a thousand sons. He is frequently wearing robes and lounge wear. Even when he has to do important stuff, he still wears whatever he wants.

Space Marines wear a Chest Harness (to protect vital organs), a "Body Glove" (made out of some sort of bulletproof material,IIRC) and some sort of Ceramite Cod-piece (for obvious reasons,lol).

"power armor" is a combination of a variety of integrated battle systems. Not just a metal suit with lights and sunglasses.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:marines are always at least 7ft tall. some are taller, but it wouldn't be abnormal to see an extreamly muscular 7 foot guy walking around.

Try eight feet minimum. Catachan, whom are at least seven feet on average, are dwarfed by Astartes.

You are correct. Catachans are completely dwarfed by the hulking musculature of astartes. Astartes are about 8 feet tall, maybe 9 feet with power armor. Cadians are probably around 6 feet tall,while catachans are probably around 6.75 feet tall. Astartes are not only tall,but incredibly wide and built.

An astartes might be able to look an ogryn right in the eyes.

However, all this aside, I have read more than a few bits of chaos fluff, where the Marine and the Armor have begun to merge, and removing the armor can be painful or kill. Chaos Marines don't take of armor, and Thousand Sons, as mentioned above are basically possessed power armor suits... very Haunted Mansion.. sppppoooookkyyyy IIRC.

thegrav wrote:However, all this aside, I have read more than a few bits of chaos fluff, where the Marine and the Armor have begun to merge, and removing the armor can be painful or kill. Chaos Marines don't take of armor, and Thousand Sons, as mentioned above are basically possessed power armor suits... very Haunted Mansion.. sppppoooookkyyyy IIRC.

No,I'm referring to the book, a thousand sons. The Chaos Thousand Sons are forever trapped in their armor, turned to dust by the rubric.

Some marines,like the imperial fists,have prosthetic limbs that work with their power armor. I can't imagine they could take their armor off without losing a limb,haha

@ thegrav

SMs are smaller then Ogryns. the minies are, even taking into account non-real comparative sizes, different sizes.


in the SW: Omnibus the ogryns are several Feet taller and wider. the models and their stats reflect this.

Grey Templar wrote:@ thegrav

SMs are smaller then Ogryns. the minies are, even taking into account non-real comparative sizes, different sizes.


in the SW: Omnibus the ogryns are several Feet taller and wider. the models and their stats reflect this.

Okay,yeah. That makes sense. They ARE mutants.

@ me ? I am so confused..

i meant Samus. the little scroll chart at the bottom of the post writing screen is tough to navigate.

Hehe no worries.

Well, I play SWs so I assume they just weave something out of their own body hair.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:It also says in the current SM codex that they must have the black carapace to operate power suits.

It has been covered in more detail 5+ times in WD in the last 20 years, and Index astartes.

True much Space marines (if they concentrate enough) can actually pick up the black carapace from underneath skins of a marine. And lots of Junctions and sockets come out, which interact with their armour. Talos (Night Lord Prophet) gets irritated because one of them is itchy

And while I'm here, I'd just like to say Corax can turn himself invisble. That's just too cool

Melissia, I'm working on a novel for BL at the moment, and I popped Graham McNeil an email to ask some fluff questions in regards to Space Marine recruitment, training, and the final 'raising' to Brother status.

You are correct, recruits are picked up young (10-11) and the stages of their implants continue during the course of their trainings. They are not inducted into Scouts (or as Black Templar neophytes) however until their training and all implants are complete. The reason for this is a lot of the organs are dependant on the function of others and require the body to grow and mature enough for them to be purposeful.

The greater majority of this fluff can be found on the Lexicanum page on recruitment of marines. For your convenience, here is a link:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Creation_of_a_Space_Marine

As the Black Carapace is often the final step introduced before a Neophyte is a ready Space Marine, it stands to reason that Scouts, who prove themselves worthy of the Carapace in combat, already have the remainder of their procedures complete. As such, they will already be tall enough. Depending on how well he proves himself, some scouts could be scouts for a few years (I would assume at the mimimum 5-6 so their Progenoid gland is sufficiently matured) and if say it is a strict Astartes chapter, some Scouts could be waiting for a full Brother spot for many decades. It's a tough roster in the big leagues!

A scout will not be 5-6 foot one day and suddenly be 8 foot the next day when he is promoted and prepped for surgery. There are no magic knee implants in the 41st Millennium


Also, I should stress that 'infiltrate' does not necessarily mean in plain sight. The feral nature of a Marine would mean he could probably lay waiting much like a Vindicare Assassin. His control over his body functions would easily facilitate him to regulate his breathing and body temperature so as not to appear too distinct on scanners or to the ear. Undoubtedly there will still be things that are just not going to be fooled by a Space Marine, but I don't blame their 'size' so much as their species.

Additionally, muscles do not make noise. Control of the distortion you generate is determined by your agility, the way you walk, etc. If taught to prowl correctly, I'm sure most marines could out do the most resourceful of ninjas. Having that coiled muscle strength ready though just means when it comes time to make that secret deadly strike, they will do it fast and hard, be it knife or chokehold or whatever.