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I agreed with Deadshane.

Bashing on someones paintjob in ARD BOYZ batreps.

You know....the battles where half if not more of the room is bare metal or plastic.

Riiiggghhht.

Nurglitch...why dont you post some of YOUR armies online so we can all see how much better you are. (or rather, tell you how much of a painter you ARENT)

Inquisitor_Syphonious:

I believe I've already talked about that. I think his battle reports could do with more details about events (distances, dice results, etc) so his tactics and strategy can be evaluated more easily. His opponents in the first two games, for example, really seemed to misjudge the distances that DashofPepper's Orks could move in two or three turns. It would have been nice to have more detail so that those of us who weren't there personally could evaluate the numbers he was working with, and judge accordingly. It's difficult to do in practice, obviously, but I prefer that style to the vaguer approach that he uses.

Visually speaking I've said my piece and it's unfortunate the DashofPepper and his white knights have ignored my question about the terrain. Even if DashofPepper's army was painted to my liking, I think that the terrain shown by the pictures was both cheap and insufficient for the purposes of playing competitive Warhammer. It's not DashofPepper's fault at all, but it did detract from the experience.

You right.

Not everything at that tournament was up to Nurglitch's standards. THEY SHOULD'VE CANCELLED THE WHOLE THING.

Nevermind that people had fun.



BTW, where was the Ard Boyz that YOU ran...you know, the one with better painted terrain and painting requirements on armies? I imagine you ALSO served pizza?

I'd like to go to that one.

I mean, I know that the store Dash went to went thru a lot of trouble to run a big tourney, but YOUR tourney must be a logistical nightmare....must be great though.

So where is it so we can all sign up with YOU next year Nurglitch?

Deadshane1:

Because I don't have any painted armies, and I don't take pride in the shiatty partial paint jobs some of them have. I don't pretend they're visually appealing: I suck as a painter and have no need to show off exactly how much I suck.

But then I don't have to be a good painter to tell when someone else sucks. Indeed, I am extremely well acquainted with what badly painted miniatures look like and therefore can spot them quite easily.

In General:

I get it, nobody is allowed to suggest that DashofPepper's Orks are anything less than unique and beautiful snowflakes wrought DashofPepper's in-house bonesingers. Don't suppose we can get back to the brainstorming I originally suggested, or even discuss how crappy the terrain looked, and how it affected the game? I thought this thread was about DashofPepper's third game in th 'Ard Boyz Semi-Finals, not me...

So long as you admit that your opinion is meaningles...I guess we can let it all rest.


(thats sort of what you did when you say you suck as a painter. When you suck as a painter...noone really cares for your opinion on modelling.)

Deadshane1:

Unlike yours?

Have I posted an opinion? Nope.

As far as my painting...go to my galleries and tell me you can do fire better...

Nurglitch wrote:I thought this thread was about DashofPepper's third game in th 'Ard Boyz Semi-Finals, not me...

Well, you were wrong, it is all about you, and that was Dash's plan all along.

Seriously though, stop it. Otherwise the mods are going to come in, and close the thread. I think we can all appreciate it being alive, so people can read through it.

Its okay whether or not it gets locked it will still be readable.. But half the fun of DoP theads is total dramafest that ensues for little to no reason

I think it would be better if they kept the thread open, so that people could talk about DashofPepper's game. As he rightly pointed out in the first post losing is better than winning when it comes to learning. I'd certainly like to discuss what might have happened if (1) DashofPepper had deployed differently, and (2) DashofPepper had played that game on a board with 25% and terrain that blocked line of sight.

@Nurglitch

It was just the wrong place to do it Nurglitch. That's what got people up in a tizzy including myself and I'd do it for any other dakkite who's thread I was reading.

#1) As for the venue the terrain was so far below par it is almost painful. 5th Edition 40k can't be played without LOS Blocking terrain. This heavily impacted the game.

#2) Dash got to worried about side shots and deployed poorly and took what might, possibly, with luck, have been a game and lost on turn 1.

#3) I personally don't see how a win is possible with orks against guard who go second in this mission. You just can't cover the distance fast enough. My only thoughts would be to deploy center mass and send all my stuff that can turbo-boost forward like crazies! Probably shift my my mek to the trukk and have the Kopta's go 24" (they'd get cover saves) the truck go 17" and the BW's go 12"(add 1" if he has red paint, i forgot) and then hope it's enough. Maybe do this to force a mistake.

All I can think of but it requires that another player screw up to win which sucks.

In the Kill point aspect, Dash could of denied the opponent some kill points by turtling, but that is assuming he had the cover to do so. Without any intervening terrain, this was a difficult match for Dash to control.

@Dash

Looking at that army list was just plain nasty and there wasnt much you could do outside of deploying in the center and still weathering a turn or 2 of shooting. IG suffer from attrition and heavily rely on a decisive 1st or 2nd turn to KO their opposition.

With BW orks you live by the KFF and you die by the KFF.

tough break on the mission and army selection.

Hulksmash wrote:Paint jobs are in the eye of the beholder Nurglitch. Adding the caveat that it's just your opinion doesn't mean it's ok to insult someones work. If this was a painting thread then sure. He'd be asking for feedback. But since he's not, it's not something to bring up. They are painted to the basic standard to enter tournaments which is all that matters.

You are my hero. *swoon*

You can share my hotel room anytime.

Like in August.

Er... yeah. Drama in the thread. EXACTLY what Dash is getting away from.

I guess all I would have done in that situation is fed the Chimera that came in behind him fewer units. Rather than staying put with that pair of BWs, I would have sent 3 forward (including the KFF) towards his lines, and hoped that your opponent would be distracted enough by them and you various buggies and Lootas around that he wouldn't dig into them that much. Heck, you might not have needed the trukk. It was one vehicle, with a small squad of guys. Deffrolla the Chimera, and charge the contents.

That's probably how I would have played it. Would it have worked? I dunno. That was a very solid Mech Guard army with plenty of room to shoot away.

Thanks Dash for your reports! They have always been well written and entertaining! I will miss them.

If people want to discuss aspects of the tactics used, then please do so.

The paintjobs are irrelevant to Hard Boyz which doesn't have any painting requirement.

Continuing to attack what is a good battle report by commenting on the paintjob will be considered trolling by the moderators.

imperial guard can be difficult if you cant deal with the tanks

Terrain was poor. No disagreement there. A battlewagon is pretty big, and even buildings usually have some windows in them that you can get a scrap of LOS through. I've rarely had terrain affect my deployment in such a way that I deployed to use it for screening - I can vaguely remember a game once where I lined up my battlewagon wall so that the KFF wagon couldn't be seen the first turn, but that was about it.

Also, given that I take cover with me, and that all my vehicles get to reroll their DT tests, I typically don't care about where terrain is on a table. A few things are always pretty guaranteed:

1. I'm unlikely to immobilize myself.
2. Whether I assault into cover or not, I still go second.
3. I will always have a 4+ cover save.

There's always 2-3 wagons in any mechanized list that I run capable of holding my KFF mek, so even if he loses his transport, there's another one to get into and keep trucking. As a result, I never really care what terrain looks like on a board, with the exception that I want my Lootas in cover, so need area terrain in my deployment zone. Preferably a nice flat forested area or a building so that they aren't falling over as I try balancing them on a hill or a crater.
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Deployment: I probably should have moved on in my center bottom; I expect that he would have moved on top right and bottom right, with a unit (Leman Russ or hydras) in the top right to grief me when I turn to engage another target. I think I addressed this in my original post, but my key to dealing with Mech IG is that in a normal 40k mission, they can only get 36" away from me or so - I can get there in a couple turns. Adding another board edge where I deploy first is the cincher to making sure I take a beat down. If I had won the roll off, I would have gone second. He would have deployed in his top right corner and spread out to the middle of his board, along his back table edge, so that I still had to cross 40" or so to get to him down the length of the board, with nothing gained from coming out my short edge. Smart move on his part for sure.
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Painting: This thread isn't about painting. The Pink Waaaugh! is themed with their own unique backstory, has a colorful paint scheme that is well received in GTs, and is fun to play with and against. It typically gets about 60% to 70% of paint points, with the remainder being missed because of a lack of ink or shading. They aren't inked or shaded because Dodiez doesn't WANT them to be; shading subdues the vibrancy of the colors she uses, and I bought her a whole set of inks, which she has no interest in using. On a more pointed note....Nurglitch, your posting history in threads I create have a trend of negativity, criticism, and little contribution except for you to express your disapproval of my opinions, my army lists, my advice, the fact that other people do it better than me, and now the paint job on my armies. Please stop stalking me, it is uncomfortable.
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Deadshane: My respect for you went up a couple of notches. Ultimately, you're right and I've been "bombardlemented" (hehehe to anyone who gets that) by PMs, e-mails, and Skypes. My problem is that I have a REAL tough time letting a wrong go unanswered. I keep giving analogies, and here's another. This past weekend at 'Ard Boyz, one of the guys playing had a friend(?) spectating at his table. He started accusing his friend of bringing him bad luck, and telling him to leave. His friend is laughing it off, but its getting more awkward and the guy is like, "No I'm serious - go home, I don't want you here." Typical person will whisper or look on in disbelief. Dashofpepper has to open his mouth and say, "Hey! Be nice!" I would have elaborated, but I was in the middle of a dice roll. I have a real tough time letting someone's mistreatment of someone ELSE pass by unnoticed (get me drunk and I'll tell you some crazy stories about beating up drug dealers and other random acts of vigilantism against evildoers) let alone mistreatment of me. Not a batman wannabe, but I was always a fan of Mack Bolan. Didn't join the army for guns....I wanted to do my part to stop bad people from doing bad things. Bad people exist on the internet and I'm drawn to fighting them like a moth to a flame.
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Hulksmash; Hydras. Turbo-boosting deffkoptas get sad faces when shot at by STR7 AP4 flak cannons that ignore flat out / turbo-boosting saves. Which is what happened. I think I still would have gotten owned if I started in the middle simply because of the mission, deployment, and matchup. Might be worth getting someone to Vassal it out with me for a replay and see what happens.

Ironically, my first two opponents suffered because they didn't make an impact on my battlewagons. My last opponent succeeded because he took out everything BUT the battlewagons (all my anti-tank capabilities) first.

half the reason I even bothered registering a dakka account after a year or two of reading, was to post in a couple of your battlereport threads that I've always enjoyed reading.

As for your (understandable) analogy, even you have to realize when people are lighting false fires just to see you fly over there all out of breath. stop going to the fires, but don't stop making breps because of the trolls.

Shane was right, keep the batreps coming. Dont bother responding to the trolls at all. Just ignore them. I mean think about it, someone on the internet said you suck at plastic army mans game. But, the sun and stars are still shining, food still tastes good, etc etc. So who cares, just keep on truckin.

Good batrep, as usual, thanks.

I do hope you can find the energy to continue posting, I've really appreciated your insights ever since you started commenting on Tau lists (that's when I started playing). I can understand that the trolls can get to you, but as they say "Don't feed the trolls", just ignore them.

Do you think the Purple People Eaters would have fared better with these missions?

Dash,

Did this tournament experience help you to realize that Stelek's criticism of your list was accurate? If so, its another win for the mission.

Hulksmash wrote:@Nurglitch

It was just the wrong place to do it Nurglitch. That's what got people up in a tizzy including myself and I'd do it for any other dakkite who's thread I was reading.

Where is the right place Hulksmash? There is actually an issue worth discussing here, even in Nurglitch attacks it a little heavy handedly. There are numerous WYSIWYG threads popping up lately, and even a couple of "What is Acceptable Counts As?" threads as well, directly related to the 'Ard Boyz.

The issue is that one player in this match essentially scratch built hydras with straws. The question being, is that acceptable? Most posters here would counter that since that army is so beautifully painted, the straws can be ignored. But what about if it was unpainted? And what if the player disgards the straws when he actually finishes the models, or maybe never does. It seems to be pushing the envelope a little bit for WYSIWYG. An interesting corollary being, since Dash's army isn't painted as well, would you all have deemed it acceptable if he used straws for some of his big shootas/deffguns/whatever? That seems like a double standard.

I think that's what Nurglitch is getting at.

Also, is it acceptable for Dash to mount his DeffRollaz "Up" like he did?

Anyway, it's definetely worth of discussion.

Nice Batrep there Dash- and fair enough declaring at the point you did-If no Bonus points lost by opp 4 example

And Nurglitch- normally I think you are fairly accurate with your view on things, and the interpretation of others.

This time, I feel you have been a little too forthright with your criticism. Esp since you stated you have no painted Minis. Just ease up on the harshness of it, in that case, IMO.

@ whitedragon- I think I remember DoP stating they were up so no 'cheese' rule calling about the new Deff-rollar rules(I'm not an expert on Orks)- but mentioned why in earlier Batrep.
As far as I remember anyhoo

I really hope Dash reconsiders about taking time off and not posting here. One of the best things I enjoy about Dakka Dakka is reading well detailed Battle Reports with pictures and commentary from good players with nasty competitve lists, Dash delivers on this. Not only does he have some great reports but if you check out the tactic section you will find Dash there helping players with builds IE: Kan Walls. Sadly this community is the one that loses with a loss of a poster like Dash and for what?

The only time I want to hear Dash saying he is taking some time off.... it better be to change it to a video report with full John Madden style naration with creative uses of the video pen!


Nurglitch
My hat is off to anyone that paints their amy and they have my respect, because they put in the effort. Its like when I go the gym ( I'am in very good shape ) and I see people who may not be, they have my respect for being there and doing something about it vs those those who have excuses not to go. The same holds true to painting.



As to the game Dash played

That terrain looked horrible to play against. Were all the boards lightly done in terrain or were the tables themed such as heavy terrain one board, jungle other, city in another and maybe bad luck of the draw on a open table top with some craters for your match? If it was just bad luck on the draw, then I guess no biggie since I like to believe armies should be able to handle any enviroment as IG also could be impaired in a heavy terrain table ( City Fight ) for example.

Any rate, very interesting army style of mech IG with so many heavy bolters. Do you recall how his Chimeras were armed? Looked like he was fearful of horde type armies and was secure enough with his anti vehicle set up in the BC of the Russ's with the suicide melta veteran squads with the Hydras for fast / light vehicles. Would be very interested to read a battle report of his other two games.

Again, appreciate the well written and nicely detailed report.

Like Dash, I played on this table and it literally had nothing taller than 3/4" barriers scattered around with about a dozen or more dragon's teeth. The ONLY building/ terrain tall enough to block somewhat...was the bunker in the center. However, the bunker was small measuring about 3" x 5" mounted on a small hill. In my first round game, the only thing that sort of saved me was the Fog and my smoke launchers of gay. Without those I would have faired much worse. As it was, the game was looking to be a draw until my opponent made to grave errors that I capitalized on to pull a Minor Win.

shoggoth: No one actually tells me that I suck at plastic army men; its the personal attacks like "Dash cheats" and "Dash is a bad sport" that catch my attention or that people point me out to. The various blog posts and junk out there were people write stupid stuff - I don't go looking for it, but people PM me with "Did you know that so and so is calling you a cheater on their blog at www.stupidblog.com? Stuff like that.
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Shrubs: Purple People Eaters. Hrm. You know, I strongly considered bringing DE to 'Ard Boyz. I even called Hulksmash on the phone a couple days before 'Ard Boyz because my decision to bring Orks was wavering. He reinforced my ingrained beliefs though that Dark Eldar aren't meant to be played at 2500 points. Heck, you can almost max out a the FoC at 1850, and you *can* max it out at 2,000. Adding 500 more points doesn't really make you any killier, just more survivable, which is antithetical to the whole point of a glass cannon anyway. If I *had* brought DE, here's what I think would have happened:

Game 1: My whole army moves flat out around the table, lining up to seriously screw with his ability to deep-strike anywhere except where I want him - ravagers are in the back protected from short range meltas. After he deep-strikes and brings out his units (even with cover, I imagine I'd lose a transport or two here), I go to work with disintegrators (STR7 AP2) and vaporize his marines while my lances work on the drop pods. End result would still be a massacre because he can't split fire with a unit, nor fire his deathstrikes the turn he comes in - so at worst, I'd be trading a 55 point raider per turn in exchange for a 10 man tactical unit and a drop pod.

Game2: My whole army would have moved up 12". With no seize, Lelith and her retinue would be sitting on a 12" charge and they'd go take down one of the central lascannon teams (away from the dreads). All my lances (and blasters where applicable) would be focused on those two dreadnoughts until they were at least shaken, while my disintegrators lined up clear fields of fire into his missile teams and other lascannon team. My DE are made to kill MEQ, and I think the slaughter would have been just as bad.

Game3: Forced to go first....My whole army would have moved flat out onto the board; I think I would have screened off half of the bottom right and 1/3 of the top board edge, forcing him to bring his stuff out inside the space I left him. From there I'd need to live through a turn of his shooting (and even multi-lasers can hurt badly) to try administering my own punishment. My alternative would be to fully reserve my army and force him to come on first so that I still get to strike first; but I don't see all my expensive haywire grenades (my vehicle killers) really paying for themselves. I still think that with this deployment, and my inability to GET to anything, I'd be in serious trouble. I'd be curious to know what army out there could really go first against Mech IG in scenario 3 and win.
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DooDoo: Stelek's criticism was that my ork list sucks, it isn't competitive, my list sucks, and that I'm stupid. There wasn't any "You're lacking this element" or "Shore up this piece." A blanket statement about a codex that it sucks isn't really accurate criticism. Unless you're talking about Necrons of course. I've always known that my list has weaknesses. I post all over on Dakka that I fear Dark Eldar, and even posted here in my OP that Mech IG are at the top of the lists I have a healthy respect for. When I play against Mech IG, I need a couple things to go my way to get in a win. I need my KFF to do his job, and it *really* helps to go first. I haven't ever claimed that Orks are the best codex, or that my list is a tier1 tournament army. I *have* claimed that Orks are more versatile than any other codex for the different kinds of lists you can build, and I *have* claimed that my long experience with a single build of my codex gives me an advantage over most people I play against.
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Whitedragon: This isn't the wrong place to discuss whether straws are WYSIWYG and acceptable - that addresses a legality piece of the game. This *IS* the wrong place to make strongly worded statements about how badly the ork paint job sucks, makes your eyes bleed, etc. It may be YOUR opinion that my army isn't painted well. I think its painted beautifully, the woman who did it is awesome, and no one asked you for your opinion. In fact, no ones opinion has been asked for about my paint job here. There is no need for anyone to volunteer an opinion and start a conversation about the ork paint jobs in this thread.

Your question, "Is it Acceptable for Dash to mount his Deffrollas "up?" The answer: Yes. I addressed this in my OP in all three reports. WYSIWYG requires that an upgrade be paid for in points and represented on the table. There is no rule saying that the Deffrolla needs to push ahead of the battlewagon. Only that it must be paid for and represented. If I took off the hinges, dropped it in the troop carrying bay in the back - its perfectly fine. If I dragged the Deffrolla behind my battlewagon - perfectly fine. There's a six page thread talking about whether they count as hull, the rules issues that arise if you count them as hull, the rules issues that arise if you don't count them as hull, all the ways that using them can be exploited in modeling.....and the only real way to use them WITHOUT causing rules issues is to mount them without them extending in front of the battlewagon. You can read the thread if you're interested.

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Borris: The chimeras all had multi-lasers and heavy flamers. Some had turret heavy flamers and others had hull heavy flamers, and it was a bit confusing trying to figure out what and where, but I knew they all had flamers. As for the heavy bolters - I'm not sure its so unique to see vendettas with heavy bolters; seems to be a pretty common theme to me.

whitedragon wrote:

Hulksmash wrote:@Nurglitch

It was just the wrong place to do it Nurglitch. That's what got people up in a tizzy including myself and I'd do it for any other dakkite who's thread I was reading.

Where is the right place Hulksmash? There is actually an issue worth discussing here, even in Nurglitch attacks it a little heavy handedly. There are numerous WYSIWYG threads popping up lately, and even a couple of "What is Acceptable Counts As?" threads as well, directly related to the 'Ard Boyz.

Modquisition on:
I'll answeer that. NOT HERE.

Post the pic in the tourney thread and query about WYSIWYG, or add it as part of the discussion to one of the existing threads on the topic in that subforum.

Lets all get back to the topic of the actual batrep shall we?