Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I see what both of you're saying, and I see the sense in what your saying.

I too wish that GW would just sell a mini rulebook for $20

Karon wrote:I see what both of you're saying, and I see the sense in what your saying.

I too wish that GW would just sell a mini rulebook for $20

Eh? thats easy! its always on ebay for like $10-$15 since people buy starter for minis

LunaHound wrote:

Karon wrote:I see what both of you're saying, and I see the sense in what your saying.

I too wish that GW would just sell a mini rulebook for $20

Eh? thats easy! its always on ebay for like $10-$15 since people buy starter for minis

I meant at the same time as the big rulebook, not a few months later.

They wont do that though , ever. It'll hurt the sales of big book.

Notice how I said "I wish", mate. I am well aware that it would lower sales of their Hardcover book, and GW never does anything that lowers their sales, no matter how convenient or helpful it would be to their customers (and don't give me the bs "yeah and we should just sell everything for free since it would be more convenient for our customers!" analogy.

The big book is a complete waste of money. Getting the starter box in September is getting so much more bang for your buck, it's silly. The big book literally has 400+ wasted pages of rehashed fluff and advertisements for GW models. Most of the art and even a lot of the pics of the models have also already appeared in other books or White Dwarf.

The main rules for a game should never be $75 just for the book. That's double the price of even the most expensive rulebooks out there for games. So GW is simply ripping people off with a product that looks good on the surface but really has very little substance.

If you buy it now, it will simply sit at home and collect dust once the starter box comes out, because the smaller book will be the one you take with you to play. You can find some cardboard in a garbage pile behind a store if you want something in your house to collect dust with.

I haven't bought a rulebook and I've been playing 8th ed. games since two weeks before the book was even released. Every store got a copy for free and there's been so much discussion of the rules on various boards for months now, I feel like I memorized the rules before I ever held the book in my hands. I barely needed to read the rulebook at my store to know the rules well enough to play.

They also still pay John Blanche to dip his face in paint and bang his head into paper for some reason.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:The big book is a complete waste of money. Getting the starter box in September is getting so much more bang for your buck, it's silly. The big book literally has 400+ wasted pages of rehashed fluff and advertisements for GW models. Most of the art and even a lot of the pics of the models have also already appeared in other books or White Dwarf.

I have a strong feeling you never read it.

-------------------------------------------------------------

I never intend to get the starter set, and even if I wanted that gakky mini-rulebook... I wouldn't waste my time selling the other things.

Too much waste when you can have such a nice book for cheap.

GW would be doing right if they were to have only bare minimum rules in the fantasy book. Only the lores for the armies there, no universal magic item list. Just the abre minimum for both of those armies to play in a table-top match.

I have just received a lovely monograph about a favourite artist for 30 quid including postage. Am totally made up about it.
Good quality paper and with excellent reproductions of his abstract paintings. Also found out he was with 236 RAF squadron in WW2 and flew Beaufighters, so an added little gem for me.

Probably no one else on Dakka will give a Gakka and think my cash is better spent on some minis.

Point is, statements like the big book being a waste of money are subjective and fairly inflamatory given the pleasure others are obviously getting from the purchase.

Given the size of the hardbound book, I would say it is not far off the mark. Even if it is a tad overpriced, that is typical GW and typical of anything hobby related.

On the other hand I hope the mini book is not restricted to the armies in the starter set. That really would be a cheap move. Furthermore GW are hoping that newbies may move on to other armies, I would have thought.

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Point is, statements like the big book being a waste of money are subjective and fairly inflamatory given the pleasure others are obviously getting from the purchase.

I'm not trying to steal anyone's joy, but I do feel the book is a ripoff. I'm simply trying to explain my opinion to other people in the hopes that they won't, from my perspective, get ripped off. I kind of think that's a nice thing to do and I would hope other people would try and convince me not get ripped off if they thought I was whether I agreed or not. It's definitely subjective, but it's also subjective to say the book is worth the $75.

As for the small edition of the rulebook being released separately. The last few editions of both 40k and WFB have had starter boxes with two armies and a more portable rulebook. Ever since 4th ed 40k (so I guess that's 4th ed 40k, 7th ed WFB, and 5th ed. 40k). They've never released the smaller books separately (though they're usually at a good price by themselves on ebay). I highly doubt they'll release the small version of WFB 8th ed. by itself given this pattern. That being said, the starter box will be a much better deal since you can trade other people the minis for minis you actually play, making the box and even better deal.

Fair dos Kas
Have to disagree about it being a rip off though.
Compared to similar sized books and to other rule books I reckon it is fairly typically priced.

As stated above it will be too many bucks for me to justify the expenditure also.

Guess I would like the fluff but there will be the 9th ed for £55-60 in a few years time

yeah my anatomy and physiology book thats about the same size cost me 230$ US!!!

Remember that there are about 100 pages extra rules as well, that is 30 pages with extra scenarios (good ones!) and the rest about how to make your own scenarios, legendary battles and campaigns. If you are a serious gamer, you absolutely need this. Even if you are from the "I just want to smash my opponent, I don't care about the background or the models" school. And remember, there were no scenarios before in standard rules of previous editions.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:

Chibi Bodge-Battle wrote:Point is, statements like the big book being a waste of money are subjective and fairly inflamatory given the pleasure others are obviously getting from the purchase.

I'm not trying to steal anyone's joy, but I do feel the book is a ripoff. I'm simply trying to explain my opinion to other people in the hopes that they won't, from my perspective, get ripped off. I kind of think that's a nice thing to do and I would hope other people would try and convince me not get ripped off if they thought I was whether I agreed or not. It's definitely subjective, but it's also subjective to say the book is worth the $75.

As for the small edition of the rulebook being released separately. The last few editions of both 40k and WFB have had starter boxes with two armies and a more portable rulebook. Ever since 4th ed 40k (so I guess that's 4th ed 40k, 7th ed WFB, and 5th ed. 40k). They've never released the smaller books separately (though they're usually at a good price by themselves on ebay). I highly doubt they'll release the small version of WFB 8th ed. by itself given this pattern. That being said, the starter box will be a much better deal since you can trade other people the minis for minis you actually play, making the box and even better deal.

It's being idiotic to call it a rip-off though. If they're also giving out a mini-rulebook in the starter set in a few months, just wait.

It is not a rip-off if they're selling a cheaper one down the road.

I personally, would shell out the extra money for the fluff and art.

Scenarios are also a nice addition, i'll probably use one tomorrow to think of it.

Honestly i think the price is just fine and I agree the quality of the book is top notch. However, for people who do not game at their home and have to tote the now massive BRB around it is a serious drawback my gaming pack is already 40+ lbs this does not include my models this is just my dice a whole host of rule books and codexes and misc gaming accessories.

This thread at points has taken an odd turn and I don't fully understand why people defending the BRB seem to jump to insulting people who are less eager to purchase it. Just be cause you see the BRB as the best thing GW has produced doesn't mean others share your opinions and it definitely does not mean they are some how inferior to you because they have a differing opinion.

@Kroothawk: define "serious gamer" are we talking about some one who plays a lot or some one who is into the whole GW universe and it's fluff as well as creating their own fluff? I consider my self a serious wargamer but only in the sense that I am tournament minded everything I do and play is tuned towards tournament play. This being said extra missions and add-on rule sets that do not appear in tournaments have no bearing on my game play what so ever neither do fluff and pictures of the GW range.

Kroothawk wrote:The small starter box rulebook is good enough for noobs

This is one of the most condescending and ridiculously ill-thought posts I've read on Dakka outside of the Off-Topic Forum. I'm not about to be the bigger man, though, and shall respond in kind:

Serious gamers need the big book for the about 100 pages advanced rules at the back, including 30 pages of more interesting and challenging scenarios and a detailed instruction on how to make your own scenarios, legendary battles and campaigns.

A "serious gamer" would have the extensive experience, knowledge, and creativity to create such scenarios without needing to lean on a crutch provided by GW. Or already possesses pre-existing crutches such as the Generals Compendium, or the Warhammer Chronicles books.

And serious gamers understand, that Warhammer is not like chess, but is enhanced by knowing your background and do some decent modelling, for which the book is a good help and a perfect hobby starter.

A "serious gamer" already knows the background of their army and can "do some decent modelling" without gleaning scraps from the basic instructions and rather generic conversions found in most GW products. How can someone be "a serious gamer" if they are in need of "a perfect hobby starter" anyway?

To answer the OP's question, yes, I too have always hated lugging the 6th and 7th edition BRB's to the GW store. I kicked myself for not buying Skull Pass instead even though I play neither Dwarfs nor O&G. It's a pain flipping through that massive tome and all the useless pictures of minis to find some rule during a game. I am not buying the 8th edition BRB, and will wait for the starter set (especially since I have a small collection of HE figs, and am considering starting Skaven). Plus, these BRB's eat up more and more bookshelf space while bringing very little value to the equation IMO. If I want art I can get it in background books (collected Horus Heresy and Liber Chaotica books, for example). If I want fluff, I'll buy Black Library novels (Nagash, anyone?), read the aforementioned background books instead of just staring at the pretty pictures, or read it in the army books, which I NEED to buy anyway.

GW has to "advance the background" in some way that will have a serious effect on how I theme or play my armies for me to jump on buying such a product. And even then I'll probably just read about the changes on the Internet and buy the relevant army book when it comes out...

Kroothawk wrote:The small starter box rulebook is good enough for noobs

This is one of the most condescending and ridiculously ill-thought posts I've read on Dakka outside of the Off-Topic Forum. I'm not about to be the bigger man, though, and shall respond in kind:
---------------------------------------------------------------
Wow. Perhaps, he was stating it was good enough for noobs, and NOT implying that people who bought it are noobs. Quite simple.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Serious gamers need the big book for the about 100 pages advanced rules at the back, including 30 pages of more interesting and challenging scenarios and a detailed instruction on how to make your own scenarios, legendary battles and campaigns.

A "serious gamer" would have the extensive experience, knowledge, and creativity to create such scenarios without needing to lean on a crutch provided by GW. Or already possesses pre-existing crutches such as the Generals Compendium, or the Warhammer Chronicles books.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Seriously? You're calling those scenarios a "crutch"? Perhaps you just want a friday night match with something outside of the norm. One of my favorite wargamers simply play whatever floats their boat, and if one of the scenarios that GW playtested is awesome looking enough to play, so be it. I would rather enjoy that.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And serious gamers understand, that Warhammer is not like chess, but is enhanced by knowing your background and do some decent modelling, for which the book is a good help and a perfect hobby starter.

A "serious gamer" already knows the background of their army and can "do some decent modelling" without gleaning scraps from the basic instructions and rather generic conversions found in most GW products. How can someone be "a serious gamer" if they are in need of "a perfect hobby starter" anyway?
----------------------------------------------
Perhaps serious hobbyist would be better, but I digress:
----------------------------------------------
I honestly, have gone back through fluff for conversions for dark elves, something about the cold one knights. I was originally going to make a big no-no.
----------------------------------------------
To answer the OP's question, yes, I too have always hated lugging the 6th and 7th edition BRB's to the GW store. I kicked myself for not buying Skull Pass instead even though I play neither Dwarfs nor O&G. It's a pain flipping through that massive tome and all the useless pictures of minis to find some rule during a game. I am not buying the 8th edition BRB, and will wait for the starter set (especially since I have a small collection of HE figs, and am considering starting Skaven). Plus, these BRB's eat up more and more bookshelf space while bringing very little value to the equation IMO. If I want art I can get it in background books (collected Horus Heresy and Liber Chaotica books, for example). If I want fluff, I'll buy Black Library novels (Nagash, anyone?), read the aforementioned background books instead of just staring at the pretty pictures, or read it in the army books, which I NEED to buy anyway.
---------------------------------------------
Wow, it is a good thing us normal people realize that it is spread into sections, and that we don't need to look through the picture pages huh?

Novels are not "fluff", their stories, big difference.
---------------------------------------------
GW has to "advance the background" in some way that will have a serious effect on how I theme or play my armies for me to jump on buying such a product. And even then I'll probably just read about the changes on the Internet and buy the relevant army book when it comes out...
----------------------------------------------
Alot of people already do, just because you don't doesn't mean that others won't do it.
----------------------------------------------

Quoting was giving me problems, but the format is obvious though.

Zhetsuken wrote:
However, I found myself unwilling to buy the BRB mostly because it is fething HUGE.

Leave it on the shelf, wait for the small booklet to appear on Ebay. If I would not always feel the strong urge to look things up for myself I would have heeded my own advice.

Inquisitor_Syphonious got it right.

@Noble713: Serious gamer is not the same as an exerienced veteran with 20 years in the hobby, it is meant as the opposite of a casual gamer not really wanting to get deep into the game. So at the start, a small book might be enough even if not recommended, but later you need the full scope of the hobby. As already said, it is not sufficient to know everything about your army when for you the opponent's army is just a bunch of grey plastics, that's not what makes the full gaming experience GW intends with this edition more than with previous ones.

Buying everything essential for the game separately is not what is useful for starter products like the rulebook. Yes, dwarf players don't need cavalery rules, should cavalry rules be sold separately because of that? No. Background is now as essential as other rules. And the extra scenarios and legendary battle instructions and examples (Dwarven airship) are good and show the potential of what can be made.

So much for now, as I am in a hurry.

From reading everyone's post I can tell everyone has strong opinions on this. Personally, I will end up getting the BRB as well as buying the new box set (lucky for me one of the armies I'm building is HE). I will keep the BRB at home mostly where I can read it or not read it at my leisure. If I feel like reading fluff or not feel like it I'll at least have the option. The smaller book I will carry with me. I love the game and I love the fluff. I'm hooked.

Just had a great idea!

Since the BRB is so big and cumbersome to carry around, I am willing to look after it for someone.
Rent free.

Just drop me a pm if interested.

I don't see the main rule book as worth it unless you want to read all the fluff about various armies. Not only is the big rule book cumbersume but $75 for a big fat rule book only when I can pay $75 for the box set which has the rule book, templates and models from 2 different armies is really a no brainer. Ok maybe they hike the box set to $90 but if you don't play either of the armies in the box set you get a mini rulebook off ebay for 10-15 dollars instead of $75. I care about fluff but only for the armies I play so I will be skipping the main rule book.

Zhetsuken wrote:I just cannot justify hefting that thing around.

Buy it and put it by your bed or toilet. Its great reading and is full of amazing images.

Given the cost of color paper, its not that expensive of a book for how much there is. To get a comparison, pick up a copy of the latest $35 D&D book and compare the thickness and quality. IMHO GW did not sell that book for profit, they sold it for a hobby book to get people into the game.

I agree that the BRB -- and all the army codex's, are a bit much to lug around. I use PDFs and carry them around on my Ipad, which I also use for my army lists. That has allowed for me to easily carry around all the documentation, and save my army for the model cases.

Kroothawk wrote: As already said, it is not sufficient to know everything about your army when for you the opponent's army is just a bunch of grey plastics, that's not what makes the full gaming experience GW intends with this edition more than with previous ones.

I would say what you're talking about is the full hobby experience, not the gaming experience.

As a game, you should be able to print out 100 x 120 millimeter sheets of paper that say "spearmen" on them and play with the blocks of paper. Doing the above is actually an excellent way of determining the quality of a game, and something I think the GW dev team should do a few times

Actually, that would only work if there's no line of sight.

Kasrkinlegion wrote:They also still pay John Blanche to dip his face in paint and bang his head into paper for some reason.

LMAO - QFT though!

To sum up:

On one hand you have the the people who love the 420 pages of fluff/pics more than the 80 pages of actual rules...10 pounds of deadweight be damned!

On the other hand... feth you GW. I aint carrying that thing around.

The big book seems like a home edition so I am going to get it and the mini rulebook so that my hefty investment has a better chance of surviving. My copy of the 7th edition rules is hashed beyond repair.

After playing 40k for some months at my local GW, I have now become interested in starting a WHFB army (probably Beastmen). At first I wasn't into Fantasy at all, but all the euphoria surrounding the new realease has got me quite intrigued. I'd really like to know the detailed background fluff of the game itself, however, I'm still not going to spend 60€ (50 GBP) just for the rulebook. It's just not justifiable for me, considering I also have to spend a few hundred quid just to get a playable army onto the table - plus the army book. I'll probably get the box once it comes out, keep the book and sell the minis on eBay. If I already had an existing army I probably still wouldn't get it, as for that money I could get another battleforce box!

SlimPickens wrote:On one hand you have the the people who love the 420 pages of fluff/pics more than the 80 pages of actual rules...10 pounds of deadweight be damned!

It is 250 pages of rules actually. But talking about only 80 pages is an easy mistake by someone who doesn't know what he is talking about and never had a look at the book
Even the "small" rulebook in the starter will have 150 pages. And you will see lots of those on ebay, knowing what is in the starter box