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Sounds like a damn big artillery target, but I shouldn't draw judgement as I've never used 40+ man units deployed in blocks.

May have to give it a go, hell can't make things any worse

Challenger

Challenger wrote:May have to give it a go, hell can't make things any worse

That's the Spirit!

Challenger wrote:Sounds like a damn big artillery target, but I shouldn't draw judgement as I've never used 40+ man units deployed in blocks.

May have to give it a go, hell can't make things any worse

Challenger

Yep, it is a bit of a problem. BUT if they are launching rocks at your peasants, then they aren't launching rocks at your knights. I'll take this in a heartbeat every time.

I think the biggest thing that really stinks about peasants, is that you can't use hand weapons/sheilds. Given the choice, Halbreds are always > than spears.

If I can count on my opponent using ranged attacks on my big M@A blocks, I'll give him a nice target to waste time shooting at. Then my Knights will pillage their way across his battleline unmolested!

Slight issue, without that big block of Men at Arms the knights are as much use as wet tissue paper.

Challenger

challenger is right there you have to just hope for the best i guess. But yeah i plan on having to 30 man blocks of men-at-arms in my 2000pt list cause i love the fellas. and i dont agree with halberds>spears. depends on circumstances of who your fighting. Against skaven I take spears. beastmen i take halberds. And i do HATE the cant use your hand weapon... so stupid.

Vulcan wrote:If I can count on my opponent using ranged attacks on my big M@A blocks, I'll give him a nice target to waste time shooting at. Then my Knights will pillage their way across his battleline unmolested!

Anyone in their right mind wouldn't waste ammo on the men@arms. They will shoot the knights that are galloping up the side in the vain attempt to get off a flank charge. The M@As are incapable of winning alone against most quality opponents. And alone they will be or unless a token force of knights makes into close combat.

Guys think about this. How would you defeat a Bretonnian Army? You set up 6"-8" from the table edge in your deployment. Don't move or expose your flanks. Ignore bait units, shoot and magic the knights into bite size chunks. So any that do make it into combat can't win. Then counter attack the remaining knights with elite infantry. Game over.

You make it sound so simple your forgetting the dice. your forgetting the terrain, and not all armies are that great at shooting, and men at arms can hold there own against average infantry. You dont expect empire swordsman to do much against bestigors or temple guard now do you?

Relying on the dice only leads to tears. Your right about the shooting. The ones that can't, pin you in place with stubborn or steadfast units and then counter attack with elite infantry.

I play against High Elves, Dwarves, Dark Elves, Goblins, and Empire. Plus my regular opponents are well versed in anti-Bret tactics. The goblins account for my single win in 8th so far. The local meta-game is very brutal towards Bretonnians. So you can understand my pessimistic view.

The way I see it. Bretonnia's narrow focus makes them unable to adapt to the new meta-game for 8th. This is my only army, I'm hoping there is a way to make them competitive. I just don't buy M@As are the answer.

I'm tempted to sig Crimson Devil's other quote - something like "I'm not about to reward GW for screwing my army by buying new models".

So my lovingly created bret army would be viable if only I bought and painted 100 Men at Arms? I'll get right on that. I always ran a nice combined arms army with plenty of archers and a block or two, but I have zero interest in that many MA. If I do somehow get enthusiastic for my brets, I'll be adding Perry hundred years war guys instead. Maybe Bret players should do that in protest.

Actually I haven't played yet. I will play an "Agincourt" army once just out of fairness as I've heard good things about the current edition. But the "Lance Ranks don't break flanks" because of the way its written thing is a serious irritation. I was unaware of that, and it really pisses me off. That kind of lack of support is unforgivable.

Is there a YMDC discussion on that someone could point me at?

Crimson Devil wrote:

Vulcan wrote:If I can count on my opponent using ranged attacks on my big M@A blocks, I'll give him a nice target to waste time shooting at. Then my Knights will pillage their way across his battleline unmolested!

Anyone in their right mind wouldn't waste ammo on the men@arms. They will shoot the knights that are galloping up the side in the vain attempt to get off a flank charge. The M@As are incapable of winning alone against most quality opponents. And alone they will be or unless a token force of knights makes into close combat.

Guys think about this. How would you defeat a Bretonnian Army? You set up 6"-8" from the table edge in your deployment. Don't move or expose your flanks. Ignore bait units, shoot and magic the knights into bite size chunks. So any that do make it into combat can't win. Then counter attack the remaining knights with elite infantry. Game over.

As always easier said than done. Knights are very resistant to S3 shooting and are only realy scared of Wood Elves, Dark Elves and Dwarfs.

That said we've always been vunrible to gun lines. Having to drag a unit of Men at Arms with us is not going to help things along.

Challenger


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kestral wrote:I'm tempted to sig Crimson Devil's other quote - something like "I'm not about to reward GW for screwing my army by buying new models".

I sort of luck out, I have arround 60 Men at Arms left over from a failed attempt to make a Bret Infantry Army work. But I kinda agree with the sentiment.

Challenger

Well over all it seems like everyone here is pretty negative about Bret which is understandable haha i am too but i want to keep working on different combos. I have seen success with men-at-arms so thats what ill keep using.

If any of you find a workable combo I would be interested in trying it. The key thing is that the "Peasant horde" is not the army I want to play.

Has anybody tried two Prophetesses army yet? I might give a magic and archer heavy army a try.

Yes, I use two Prophetesses, honestly I'm not sure its worth having both, but it does work. With the upgrades to Heaven, Beast and Life Prophetesses can have a dramatic effect on the battle. I have iffy luck with rolling for casting dice so I can find myself only using one Prophetess at a time, but the extra flexability and back up can be very useful. Best spells appear to be boast spells, Heavens re roll all ones spell for example can turn a combat or boast a shooting phase. That said nothing says "stop camping" like a powered up Comet spell and the new Hunters Spear is a very effective solution to big tough nastys and can snipe war machines/lone charecters.

Currently my Prophetesses are the only thing keeping my army from being swept off the table.

Challenger

the only thing that keeps me around is using two damsels with the lore of beasts. i roll to see what spells i get and usually trade in one spell for both so they both know the signature spell...+1 to ST and T. it makes M@A beasts in close combat and helps out my lances when they get stuck in.

:( I miss the good ole' days when deploying a Bret army on the table resulted in significant pucker-effect on the other side of the table. Now, it's more of a "Oh, that's cute" response.

88elite wrote:the only thing that keeps me around is using two damsels with the lore of beasts. i roll to see what spells i get and usually trade in one spell for both so they both know the signature spell...+1 to ST and T. it makes M@A beasts in close combat and helps out my lances when they get stuck in.

I must admit the look on my opponents face when one of my Prophetesses buffed herself with lore of beasts and started chasing a demon prince round the table was priceless. S7 T7 A4 lady

Challenger

The lance is going to be the only way to play Bretts. You just need a lance of about 5-6+ Ranks So you will keep enemies from being stubborn.

Assuming your group lets you house rule it, mine unfortunately doesn't

Challenger

Challenger wrote:

Saber wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Bretonnians only need three knights to count as a rank in all respects? Right? So for rank bonus, negating rank bonus with a flank charge, and...negating (and gaining) steadfast. This seems like it would be hugely useful.

While the concensus is thats how its suppost to work, RAW are quite clear it isn't. Frankly if this was fixed Bretonian players wouldn't be complaining. (Everyone else probably would though)


Challenger

Reading over the rule book, the army book, and the 2 relevant GW FAQ's released in July, it all seems quite clear, at least from my point of view.. being new to WFB. But with the clarrifications to the rules, the only thing that alance is missing out on is disruption. The wodring for steadfast has been changed to simply indicate ranks, at least from my interpretation; and the FAQ for Brettonia specifically overules the definition of what defines a rank for the BRB.

For your pleasure the two FAQ links.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1330084a_FAQ_WarhammerRulebook_2010_v1.pdf
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1310249a_FAQ_Bretonnia_2010_v11.pdf

I am personally moving to an all peasant army. I will take the 5 required KOTR and just spam 40 man hordes of M@A. My lord and BSB will take the Virtue of empathy and i will take Damsels and Prophetesses to add leadership. 3000 Point army includes 350+ Men at army. So much fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You guys need to stop complaining, Bretonnians Kick Ass. 12 Grail Knights with Valorous Standard, BSB with Banner of the lady and Virtue of the Impetuous, Lord with Virtue of Knightly temper or The silver lance of the blessed. If any unit can hold against this charge i will be impressed and throw out my bretonnian army.

That is not a legal combo on your lord.

yeah, Knightly temper is for non magical weapons only

A better combo is Heroism and anything (rules changed to be just heroic killing blow instead of some convoluted large target with no magic weapons)

Bretonnian Lords are still pretty awesome, some of the best human characters in the game (along with WoC)

Sorry, the and was a typo, i meant for it to say or, it has been corrected.

I am playing Brettonians in a start up league at the local store. I have won nearly every battle at the 500 point and 1000 point levels and the key to each of these wins was the lance. 2 things stood out for me:
1. Brettonian heroes and such are very cheap, you should take one in every formation now. With a little bit of equipment choices you can make some very durable guys. You can have 2 guys with a 2+ rerollable save and a 5+/6+ ward save. The extra strength and durability at the front of a lance formation really helps out.
2. My horses really keep helping out in the second round of combat. In my 1000 point game I was getting 20 str 3 attacks coming from my block 3X4. Becuase I was narrow he was only getting 5-6 across my frontage and thus only getting 10-12 attacks back. As soon as I got him down to 4 total ranks he broke once he lost steadfast.

Just some of my experiences.

BrPrometheus wrote:I am playing Brettonians in a start up league at the local store. I have won nearly every battle at the 500 point and 1000 point levels and the key to each of these wins was the lance. 2 things stood out for me:
1. Brettonian heroes and such are very cheap, you should take one in every formation now. With a little bit of equipment choices you can make some very durable guys. You can have 2 guys with a 2+ rerollable save and a 5+/6+ ward save. The extra strength and durability at the front of a lance formation really helps out.
2. My horses really keep helping out in the second round of combat. In my 1000 point game I was getting 20 str 3 attacks coming from my block 3X4. Becuase I was narrow he was only getting 5-6 across my frontage and thus only getting 10-12 attacks back. As soon as I got him down to 4 total ranks he broke once he lost steadfast.

Just some of my experiences.

I find many people overlook the advantage of the lance in that you can maximize hits while minimizing frontage

We can always bring back the flying circus. In a 2000 point game we can have 2 squads of 9 Pegasus knights with full command if we take a lord on Pegasus. We can also take a fully loaded grail knights squad, so we are taking:
Lord on Royal Pegasus 160
Bsp on Barded warhorse 74
2 units of 10 KOTR 480
2 Units of 9 Pegasus knights 990
6 Grail Knights 228
Plus commands, i think you will have to drop the grail knights but it will be worth it, also for extended combat we have questing knights. Immune to Psych is big and makes a difference.

BrPrometheus wrote:
2. My horses really keep helping out in the second round of combat. In my 1000 point game I was getting 20 str 3 attacks coming from my block 3X4. Becuase I was narrow he was only getting 5-6 across my frontage and thus only getting 10-12 attacks back. As soon as I got him down to 4 total ranks he broke once he lost steadfast.

Just some of my experiences.

In the second round of combat only the horses on the front rank can attack. The lance formation doesn't count after the charge and supporting attacks don't apply to mounts.

If it's 3 for a rank, why not just make the knight units with more ranks?

I would have thought Bretonnians have it the easiest to deal with steadfast because they have bigger rank bonuses than most cav units.

UNREALPwnage wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
You guys need to stop complaining, Bretonnians Kick Ass. 12 Grail Knights with Valorous Standard, BSB with Banner of the lady and Virtue of the Impetuous, Lord with Virtue of Knightly temper or The silver lance of the blessed. If any unit can hold against this charge i will be impressed and throw out my bretonnian army.

Fourty Scavern Slaves ranked up 5x8 should do the trick, enjoy killing the 20-30 of them needed to break them.

If it's 3 for a rank, why not just make the knight units with more ranks?

I would have thought Bretonnians have it the easiest to deal with steadfast because they have bigger rank bonuses than most cav units.

Unfortuately ranks =/= rank bonus and so while a lance will have a larger rank bonus than similar sized cavalry units it won't have any ranks as far as steadfast is concerned.

Challenger