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Haddi wrote:you can admit that they are damn close enough that one can easily mistake the concept for Female Space Marines.

No, the fact that they are human are the reason that I like them. While I could go and smash my head against a wall repeatedly until I forget the fluff, and then say "hurr, feemuhl spehss muhreenz!" (and then begin drooling on my keyboard and ranting about how "da gummit" is out to get me), I think I'd rather stick with what is actually true instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SaintHazard wrote:So the fact that I did exactly that

No, you didn't.

And the thread is derailed. yeah!

Melissia wrote:No, you didn't.

You're not paying attention, or something.

You stated that the novels can't be considered canon because they conflict with the codices.

I showed you at least two examples of the codices conflicting with the codices.

How is that not doing exactly what I said I did?

Melissia wrote:

Haddi wrote:you can admit that they are damn close enough that one can easily mistake the concept for Female Space Marines.

No, the fact that they are human are the reason that I like them. While I could go and smash my head against a wall repeatedly until I forget the fluff, and then say "hurr, feemuhl spehss muhreenz!" (and then begin drooling on my keyboard and ranting about how "da gummit" is out to get me), I think I'd rather stick with what is actually true instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SaintHazard wrote:So the fact that I did exactly that

No, you didn't.

Well, that was nasty.

I was merely attempting to say that mistaking SoBs for FemMarines is an easily understandable mistake.

Jesus, practically every thread you are in, someone mentions Sisters, and then you fly off the handle and start ranting and raving about fluff and insulting people for dishonoring your precious fething army.

We get it.

You like Sisters.

You know a lot about them.

Please stop being a MASSIVE DICK about it. You definitely do not need to get this argumentative over the smallest things. You don't see me going around flaming people because they got some Blood Angels fluff wrong, or because they insulted them. Why do you need to White Knight for your army EVERY TIME someone makes the smallest slight against them?

In their current state Least Upset: Dark Eldar. Give them the love they deserve or put them out of their misery once and for all. I never see them anymore anyways.

To be honest I think they have really lost their way with chaos. The design choices of many models, butchering/abandoning of core fluff, etc., etc. They should scrap it all, go read the old fluff and start again with an honets commitment to get it right. I used to be a huge Death Guard player for a good number of years, but I wouldn't play chaos now if you payed me. It has been highjacked by min/maxers and lost all it's character imho...

Haddi wrote:You don't see me going around flaming people because they got some Blood Angels fluff wrong, or because they insulted them.

Dude.

Your Blood Angels sodomized my Tau.

SaintHazard wrote:

Haddi wrote:You don't see me going around flaming people because they got some Blood Angels fluff wrong, or because they insulted them.

Dude.

Your Blood Angels sodomized my Tau.

That's only because unwilling Prostate exams are what all true Astartes strive for.
Maybe I need to finish that thing one day, just for you.

Haddi wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:

Haddi wrote:You don't see me going around flaming people because they got some Blood Angels fluff wrong, or because they insulted them.

Dude.

Your Blood Angels sodomized my Tau.

That's only because unwilling Prostate exams are what all true Astartes strive for.
Maybe I need to finish that thing one day, just for you.

They're just angsty because they have nipples on their armor. They need a hug is all.

Haddi wrote:I was merely attempting to say that mistaking SoBs for FemMarines is an easily understandable mistake.

I wasn't being nasty. Merely stating that to me, without the fluff, you might as well not even play, you might as well toss all your models aside (actually half the time I feel like doing this anyway, I hate painting) and go do something else. Other people have other desires (many people don't give a damn about the fluff, may don't give a damn about the game, many don't give a damn about the models either), but it isn't my place to speak up for them, only myself. If I were to make myself forget the fluff through some blunt force trauma to the head, I might be able to agree with that statement, but at the moment I can't.

Guys - this place is hard enough to Moderate when the threads are kept on topic.

Please don't bring in arguments from somewhere else into this thread.

Please DO keep on topic and polite.

FINAL public warning.

Least upsetting: GK, I can remember them just being an Elite Terminator squad with Force Weapons, now it seems they needed to wear skimpy armour and ride in oversized transports, with Stormtroopers to do half the job for them, the lazy sods.

Also I agree with the Mega Space Marine Combined Codex. Might see other founding chapters get something nice, like Ironhands getting their Venerable Dreadnought Commanders back, and Ravenguard being something other than Blood Angels-lite.

Most Upsetting: Dark Eldar, whilst Chaos gets the role of being doom-bastards in the Sauron mould, Dark Eldar are gak scarier to be captured by. Slaannesh claim to be the most depraved, but the citizens of Commarrgh have an entire society, a nation, that requires depravity in order to function.... THEY HAVE AN ECONOMY BASED ON RAPE AND PAIN!

That makes them probably the scarier creepy henchman with the long tongue who carresses his knife while the Dark Lord rants on... Like Bennett in Commando... sure they're not running the show, but thats because they're too "interested" in the "details" to keep something on track past the first innocent victim they get "interested" in.

Melissia wrote:

Haddi wrote:I was merely attempting to say that mistaking SoBs for FemMarines is an easily understandable mistake.

I wasn't being nasty. Merely stating that to me, without the fluff, you might as well not even play, you might as well toss all your models aside (actually half the time I feel like doing this anyway, I hate painting) and go do something else. Other people have other desires (many people don't give a damn about the fluff, may don't give a damn about the game, many don't give a damn about the models either), but it isn't my place to speak up for them, only myself. If I were to make myself forget the fluff through some blunt force trauma to the head, I might be able to agree with that statement, but at the moment I can't.

I agree that fluff is one of (If not the best) part of the setting, no matter how badly some authors who we do not name muddle it up.
I'm just saying, which you obviously disagree with, that anyone who doesn't know much at all about Sisters, or knows enough, but is stupid enough to think so, can make the mistake of considering them Space Marines with breasts. Which, as you have stated, is wrong.

On topic, I don't think I posted here.

I'd be least caring to see Necrons disappear. The model range is atrocious, as is their gameplay/rules, and fluff. It just seems that when they were writing it was HERP DERP NEW ARMY GOTTA INTEGRATE INTO PLOT LETS MAKE THEM RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING AND BE BEST FRIENDS WITH BA HERPADERP.

They could have gradually inserted them into the mythos of the universe, but they just decided FETH IT THEY DID EVERYTHING AND ARE EVERYWHERE AND EVERYONE KNOWS THEM AND HOW SUPER DUPER SPESHUL THEY ARE.

I'd be ticked off if they removed BA. Any of the other Space Marine books except for Vanilla? Sure, they don't really distinguish themselves enough. Blood Angels, IMHO, are juuuust past the line of "Not removed enough from the base to be worth keeping separate". I really enjoy the play style, and the art direction. Make fun of the nipples (And Tau molesting) all you want, I really enjoy the semi-Catholic, Italian/Roman direction they took them with.

Also, look at how much bling the DC have. Jesus, I mean, I feel racist just pointing out how much bling the only black (painted) members of the BA have.

Eyclonus wrote:now it seems they needed to wear skimpy armour

I challenge you to show me a single Grey Knight in anything less than full power armor.

And don't you dare show me a picture of a slutty Inquisitor (which do exist), Iniquisitors are not Grey Knights.

Haddi wrote:HERP DERP NEW ARMY GOTTA INTEGRATE INTO PLOT LETS MAKE THEM RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING AND BE BEST FRIENDS WITH BA HERPADERP.

They could have gradually inserted them into the mythos of the universe, but they just decided FETH IT THEY DID EVERYTHING AND ARE EVERYWHERE AND EVERYONE KNOWS THEM AND HOW SUPER DUPER SPESHUL THEY ARE.

Whoa. Down boy.

Caps lock, despite what they may tell you on the interwebz, is not cruise control for cool.

The truth is, even though I play Crons, I think their fluff is a bit contrived. I mean, without Cron fluff I could (and would) argue that Tzeentch is behind everything. It's plausible!

But ancient star-gods whose greatest creations move at the speed of a sloth with a red paint job and specialize in impersonating Imperial middle management don't really make good arch-villains of the universe.

SaintHazard wrote:

Eyclonus wrote:now it seems they needed to wear skimpy armour

I challenge you to show me a single Grey Knight in anything less than full power armor.

And don't you dare show me a picture of a slutty Inquisitor (which do exist), Iniquisitors are not Grey Knights.

Haddi wrote:HERP DERP NEW ARMY GOTTA INTEGRATE INTO PLOT LETS MAKE THEM RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING AND BE BEST FRIENDS WITH BA HERPADERP.

They could have gradually inserted them into the mythos of the universe, but they just decided FETH IT THEY DID EVERYTHING AND ARE EVERYWHERE AND EVERYONE KNOWS THEM AND HOW SUPER DUPER SPESHUL THEY ARE.

Whoa. Down boy.

Caps lock, despite what they may tell you on the interwebz, is not cruise control for cool.

The truth is, even though I play Crons, I think their fluff is a bit contrived. I mean, without Cron fluff I could (and would) argue that Tzeentch is behind everything. It's plausible!

But ancient star-gods whose greatest creations move at the speed of a sloth with a red paint job and specialize in impersonating Imperial middle management don't really make good arch-villains of the universe.

But...but I needs the capslock! It fuels me, gives me strength, and lulz.

I guess I don't liked the Necrons is because they keep getting portrayed as "Oh, look out, they'll cleanse the universe of all life at a calm walking pace!".

They keep getting set up as the Big Bad Villain of 40k, that everyone is afraid of and everyone will have to fight against when they finally rise up, like the Cron's are the final boss in a JRPG or something. Chaos, always has, and always should be, the most despicable, terrifying Villain group of the 40k universe, because that is sorta the whole point of Chaos.

Haddi wrote:They keep getting set up as the Big Bad Villain of 40k, that everyone is afraid of and everyone will have to fight against when they finally rise up, like the Cron's are the final boss in a JRPG or something

Which I think would actually be fine if they did that. But they don't. Imagine in a jRPG if the boss decided to phase out and go to sleep after killing half your party.

Melissia wrote:

Haddi wrote:They keep getting set up as the Big Bad Villain of 40k, that everyone is afraid of and everyone will have to fight against when they finally rise up, like the Cron's are the final boss in a JRPG or something

Which I think would actually be fine if they did that. But they don't. Imagine in a jRPG if the boss decided to phase out and go to sleep after killing half your party.

The concept is sound, I have to admit, but as you said, in gameplay they are just SAD.

So, I'm supposed to be terrified of some umie's that need some feeding, who move at a snails pace, don't have any big nasty creatures/vehicles/units, and run away when the fight starts to get good?

Haddi wrote:Chaos, always has, and always should be, the most despicable, terrifying Villain group of the 40k universe, because that is sorta the whole point of Chaos.

Unless they aren't.

Consider this:

The Imperium is devoutly loyal to the Emperor and commits hourly atrocities in His name. The Imperium's disregard for human life has been, time and again, taken to extremes never before seen. Inquisitors have entire planets destroyed in order to eliminate small Chaos cells thereon. Entire planets are lost due to rounding errors in tax returns (imagine if some adept feths up the numbers and your planet goes down as only having given a tenth of your required tithe, what manner of hell that'd raise) and the trillions of soldiers that make up the Imperial Guard really only fight because a political officer with little to not combat experience has a pistol to their head, ready to make sure they die before the day is through - they fear the enemy slightly less than they fear the Commissar. The Imperium is a stark and oppressive place, where hope is the first step on the road to disappointment and a plea of innocence is guilty of wasting the Confessor's time.

On the other hand, consider the Warp. The realm of Daemons. Yeah, you may die, your Chaos God may unmake you, but they usually don't unless they have a reason to. You can make trips to the Materium, and if you die there, you simply go back to the Warp for a thousand years, which, in the terms of the life of a Daemon, isn't really that long a time. Consider it a vacation. The rules are clear, and as long as you follow them, you actually have some freedom to do as you wish. Yeah, it's a long ladder to climb to get to the top, but what do you care? You're effectively immortal, you've got all the time in the world. Life is good! If you like killing, hey ho, there's Khorne, he'll get you in on that. If you like sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll, go visit Slaanesh, he's got the best of all three! If you miss your daddy, Grandfather Nurgle is there for you! And if you're a conniving bastard, man will Tzeentch's schemes blow you away! Chaos makes no excuses and no apologies for the way it is - it just is... and even at the bottom, good times can be had by all.

Which one of these really sounds like the villain here?

Actually I'm fairly certain that at the bottom of a chaos cult exist the sacrifces that are slaughtered/raped/poisoned/mutated and forced to suffer just as much torture as the worst Inquisitor. Only this happens far more regularly than Inquisitors do.

SaintHazard wrote:

Haddi wrote:Chaos, always has, and always should be, the most despicable, terrifying Villain group of the 40k universe, because that is sorta the whole point of Chaos.

Unless they aren't.

Consider this:

The Imperium is devoutly loyal to the Emperor and commits hourly atrocities in His name. The Imperium's disregard for human life has been, time and again, taken to extremes never before seen. Inquisitors have entire planets destroyed in order to eliminate small Chaos cells thereon. Entire planets are lost due to rounding errors in tax returns (imagine if some adept feths up the numbers and your planet goes down as only having given a tenth of your required tithe, what manner of hell that'd raise) and the trillions of soldiers that make up the Imperial Guard really only fight because a political officer with little to not combat experience has a pistol to their head, ready to make sure they die before the day is through - they fear the enemy slightly less than they fear the Commissar. The Imperium is a stark and oppressive place, where hope is the first step on the road to disappointment and a plea of innocence is guilty of wasting the Confessor's time.

On the other hand, consider the Warp. The realm of Daemons. Yeah, you may die, your Chaos God may unmake you, but they usually don't unless they have a reason to. You can make trips to the Materium, and if you die there, you simply go back to the Warp for a thousand years, which, in the terms of the life of a Daemon, isn't really that long a time. Consider it a vacation. The rules are clear, and as long as you follow them, you actually have some freedom to do as you wish. Yeah, it's a long ladder to climb to get to the top, but what do you care? You're effectively immortal, you've got all the time in the world. Life is good! If you like killing, hey ho, there's Khorne, he'll get you in on that. If you like sex, drugs, and rock 'n' roll, go visit Slaanesh, he's got the best of all three! If you miss your daddy, Grandfather Nurgle is there for you! And if you're a conniving bastard, man will Tzeentch's schemes blow you away! Chaos makes no excuses and no apologies for the way it is - it just is... and even at the bottom, good times can be had by all.

Which one of these really sounds like the villain here?

While Chaos in general is pretty Brahsome, from the viewpoint of those who HAVEN'T allied themselves with Chaos, they are the big bad.

From the eyes of Chaos, everyone else is like, a huge bummer, who like, keeps riding my jock for breaking the very laws of reality to serve my perverted whims.

Melissia wrote:Actually I'm fairly certain that at the bottom of a chaos cult exist the sacrifces that are slaughtered/raped/poisoned/mutated and forced to suffer just as much torture as the worst Inquisitor. Only this happens far more regularly than Inquisitors do.

Hey, you gotta make your way to the Warp somehow.

No pain, no gain, bro!

Think of the Warp like an enormous perpetually kickass fraternity, and mortal followers of Chaos are pledges.

Then you'll get the picture.

Haddi wrote:While Chaos in general is pretty Brahsome, from the viewpoint of those who HAVEN'T allied themselves with Chaos, they are the big bad.

From the eyes of Chaos, everyone else is like, a huge bummer, who like, keeps riding my jock for breaking the very laws of reality to serve my perverted whims.

Which is why Chaos is undeniably totally kickass, and the Imperium is a total buzzkill. Man.

SaintHazard wrote:

Eyclonus wrote:now it seems they needed to wear skimpy armour

I challenge you to show me a single Grey Knight in anything less than full power armor.

Thats the bloody point: Power Armour!

They started off as this whole secret chapter thingy of Terminators, in grey not metal, that would rock up, beat a daemon prince or two into submission and then bugger off before anyone could ask questions. The regular marines just thought of them as some mysterious cousins with massive Force Halberds and anger management issues.

They had that mystical elitism down pat... then GW decides to ruin it by giving them backstory and scaled down versions of what was once these scary as terminators. Putting them in power armour (because apparently they don't deserve artificer armour) kind of killed them as super badasses.

SaintHazard wrote:And don't you dare show me a picture of a slutty Inquisitor (which do exist), Iniquisitors are not Grey Knights.

Thats the bloody point... too... No more "Inquisitor Prostitute Saves The Day". Also what the hell have you been googling to get a slutty Inquisitor... No wait, if you post any links someone will need to get the brain bleach.

SaintHazard wrote:

Melissia wrote:Actually I'm fairly certain that at the bottom of a chaos cult exist the sacrifces that are slaughtered/raped/poisoned/mutated and forced to suffer just as much torture as the worst Inquisitor. Only this happens far more regularly than Inquisitors do.

Hey, you gotta make your way to the Warp somehow.

No pain, no gain, bro!

Think of the Warp like an enormous perpetually kickass fraternity, and mortal followers of Chaos are pledges.

Then you'll get the picture.

Haddi wrote:While Chaos in general is pretty Brahsome, from the viewpoint of those who HAVEN'T allied themselves with Chaos, they are the big bad.

From the eyes of Chaos, everyone else is like, a huge bummer, who like, keeps riding my jock for breaking the very laws of reality to serve my perverted whims.

Which is why Chaos is undeniably totally kickass, and the Imperium is a total buzzkill. Man.

Chaos is the laid-back Stoner who's always trying to get you in on some scheme of his that never works, always sits around masturbating to the sickest stuff, never cleans his side of the room, and keeps getting into fights, but once you make friends with him, he's really cool, whilst the Imperium is the uptight nerd girl who always gets pissed off at the slightest things you do, and never stops ranting about it.

SOMEONE DRAW THIS NOW.

Don't judge me!

SaintHazard wrote:Think of the Warp like an enormous perpetually kickass fraternity

But Fraternities suck (so do Sororities).

Melissia wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:Think of the Warp like an enormous perpetually kickass fraternity

But Fraternities suck (so do Sororities).

Well sure, that's why you belong with your Imperium.

Haddi and I are just gonna go do our thing, bang some chicks, drink some beer.

You have fun with your srs bsns.

SaintHazard wrote:Don't judge me!

By the laws of his most sacred imperium I judge thee to have committed the sin of Being Too In "Love" With Thy Emperor's First And Foremost...

You are hereby sentenced to have your voice altered to a permanent whisper, imprisonment in a suit of Holy Latex, Vinyl or PVC (depending on skin type) And are required to perform service to an Inquisitor as death cultist till the day you die by laspistol bolt from an accidental discharge of the Obligatory Incompetent Guardsmen Bodyguard and dying in the Inquisitors arms without a word!

Melissia wrote:

Haddi wrote:you can admit that they are damn close enough that one can easily mistake the concept for Female Space Marines.

No, the fact that they are human are the reason that I like them. While I could go and smash my head against a wall repeatedly until I forget the fluff, and then say "hurr, feemuhl spehss muhreenz!" (and then begin drooling on my keyboard and ranting about how "da gummit" is out to get me), I think I'd rather stick with what is actually true instead.

It is true I can see how a person mistakes SoB as female SM. I personally have never played or spent time learning about the SoB so from my perspective they look like a female SM equivalent.

Bloodfrenzy187 wrote:

Melissia wrote:

Haddi wrote:you can admit that they are damn close enough that one can easily mistake the concept for Female Space Marines.

No, the fact that they are human are the reason that I like them. While I could go and smash my head against a wall repeatedly until I forget the fluff, and then say "hurr, feemuhl spehss muhreenz!" (and then begin drooling on my keyboard and ranting about how "da gummit" is out to get me), I think I'd rather stick with what is actually true instead.

It is true I can see how a person mistakes SoB as female SM. I personally have never played or spent time learning about the SoB so from my perspective they look like a female SM equivalent.

Yeah, as said above, that is pretty much wrong.

The Sisters (As I understand it) are basically, incredibly pious warrior-women who are not in separate Chapters, such as the SM, but instead in Ordos, which are all ruled by the Ecclesiarchy. They have Power Armor, but only as a defense, as it does not grant strength enough to be noticeable. Though they have no Psykers, they can actually perform Miracles as the Emperor grants them power, through their faith. They are viewed as MUCH more expendable then Marines, but not nearly as expendable as Guard. I guess you can call them the midway point, specialized, highly trained warriors, but they aren't the Gods Amongst Men that the Space Marines are. However, unlike Space Marines, they are practically IMMUNE to being corrupted by chaos, and whilst there are many Renegade Marines, the amount of Sisters that have fallen OFFICIALLY (As in, undisputed, factual, canon) can be counted on one finger.

Also, I believe they were formed as a loophole, as after the Horus Heresy the Ecclesiarchy was banned from having a Standing force of MEN, which they decided to be dickish about and start the Sisters.

Too much OT, too much rancor, too much maintenance = closed.