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Well the hole point in his is just for fun even if it does bend the fluff a little

And what if this legions have left imperium because they have foreseen the failure of emperor.

My theories:

One of them is the progenitor of the Grey Knights. He's in the warp doing battle against Chaos.

One of them is Omegon, Alpharius' twin.

Constantine wrote:And what if this legions have left imperium because they have foreseen the failure of emperor.

My god your a genious! The primarch has the power to see into the future yet only negative things like death! But still you then have to keep in mind that the future is subjective, what if he didnt know that it was him and his legion that would be the ones bringing down the emperor!

How about, during the Horus Heresy there weren't just two factions?

What if a third faction had arisen, opposing the Emperor but also rejecting Chaos? Space Marine supremacists perhaps? Or Marines opposed to the idea of the Emperor single-handedly ruling the Galaxy? Perhaps a Primarch was raised on Planet Liberal?

Leaving the ideology behind, I think the idea of a third, weaker faction which two close Primarchs formed, that was small enough that the Imperium could effectively delete it from history is a compelling idea.

Constantine wrote:And what if this legions have left imperium because they have foreseen the failure of emperor.

So why would their records have been erased?

@insaniak

For MASSIVE HERESY.

I assume an Inqusitior could've done it as late as m38?

Crantor wrote:My theories:
One of them is the progenitor of the Grey Knights. He's in the warp doing battle against Chaos.
One of them is Omegon, Alpharius' twin.

The Grey Knights are a Second Founding chapter, and are speculated to use gene-seed created from the flesh of the Emperor. There is also a possibility that the initial Grey Knights were loyalist Death Guard. But the Grey Knights are not the scions of one of the missing Legions.
Alpharius Omegon is a often counted single Primarch. The 20th Primarch to be found was either Alpharius or Omegon, and together they lead the XX Legion. Omegon was 'revealed' in Legion, before then he didn't exist in the background, so wouldn't have been the 2nd or 11th Primarch.

kravus master of Horus wrote:

Constantine wrote:And what if this legions have left imperium because they have foreseen the failure of emperor.

My god your a genious! The primarch has the power to see into the future yet only negative things like death! But still you then have to keep in mind that the future is subjective, what if he didnt know that it was him and his legion that would be the ones bringing down the emperor!

Other Primarchs managed to foresee the future and not go rogue. Sanguinius could see events yet to come, although he still allowed himself to be defeated by Horus (who himself saw the future of the Imperium in a warp-granted vision, which is one of the reasons he went rogue). Konrad Curze was plagued with convulsions, and while in these fits had visions of his own death and of the Night Lords fighting against the other Legions. Eventually, he almost killed Dorn and obliterated his own homeworld, which lead to his eventual corruption. Magnus the Red might well have also been able to foresee the future, he was an incredibly power psyker.

So I don't think a Primarch foreseeing the future would be enough to have him completely forsake the Imperium. It could be a contributing matter, but precognition isn't exactly rare among the Primarchs. Additionally, I don't see how leaving the Imperium would be enough to get them stricken from the records. Horus tried to kill the Emperor, and damn near succeeded, but he's still recorded.

Henners91 wrote:How about, during the Horus Heresy there weren't just two factions?

The missing Legions were already "lost to [the Imperium] forever" by the time of the Heresy, and their statues had already been removed from the Imperial Palace. Also of note is that the statues of the traitor Primarchs were merely shrouded; the missing Primarchs must have done something really bad to be disowned when the statues of Primarchs marching on Terra were just covered up.

Henners91 wrote:I assume an Inqusitior could've done it as late as m38?

Some of the older fluff says the records were deleted "following the Horus Heresy". We don't know who deleted them, as the "order origination" is "unknown". While it's possible that the information was deleted in M38, I think that's very unlikely. Newer fluff makes it clear that they're already gone by the time of the Heresy, and trying to erase 7 000 years of references to the Legions would be a nigh-impossible task.

Æscholt wrote:

Crantor wrote:My theories:
One of them is the progenitor of the Grey Knights. He's in the warp doing battle against Chaos.
One of them is Omegon, Alpharius' twin.

The Grey Knights are a Second Founding chapter, and are speculated to use gene-seed created from the flesh of the Emperor. There is also a possibility that the initial Grey Knights were loyalist Death Guard. But the Grey Knights are not the scions of one of the missing Legions.
Alpharius Omegon is a often counted single Primarch. The 20th Primarch to be found was either Alpharius or Omegon, and together they lead the XX Legion. Omegon was 'revealed' in Legion, before then he didn't exist in the background, so wouldn't have been the 2nd or 11th Primarch.

I have also heard that the Grey Knights could have been created not just from loyalist Death Guard but from all of the traitor legions that had loyal marines still because of their natural resistance to chaos. Then there is also the rumor that Garro instead of becoming a Grey Knight became one of the first inquisitors instead. Don't know if its true or not but it sounds fun lol.

Henners91 wrote:How about, during the Horus Heresy there weren't just two factions?

What if a third faction had arisen, opposing the Emperor but also rejecting Chaos? Space Marine supremacists perhaps? Or Marines opposed to the idea of the Emperor single-handedly ruling the Galaxy? Perhaps a Primarch was raised on Planet Liberal?

Leaving the ideology behind, I think the idea of a third, weaker faction which two close Primarchs formed, that was small enough that the Imperium could effectively delete it from history is a compelling idea.

I just when I hear sweetness like this!

As for a name for a third-party that abhorred the Imperium and Chaos jointly... The Sons of Reason? Obviously that'd be a title they'd craft after their rebellion rather than beforehand... Think of characteristics much like Roboute Gulliman's but perhaps with more hope, optimism and principles?

Henners91 wrote:As for a name for a third-party that abhorred the Imperium and Chaos jointly... The Sons of Reason? Obviously that'd be a title they'd craft after their rebellion rather than beforehand... Think of characteristics much like Roboute Gulliman's but perhaps with more hope, optimism and principles?

Sounds nice. Although "sons of" imho appears too much in names.


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What about: Freedoms Progress? Lords of Hope? Desciples of reason?

What about 'Prophets of Reason'?

Has a nice ring to it, that and their aren't too many chapters with Prophet in it.

That is actually quite a good idea! Love the name too. I think we should now determine what they specialise at. Maybe urban warfare or something? There isn't really that much left behind by the other legions for this.

Urban warfare? As in vehicle specialists but not just limited to bikes, dreadnoughts and tanks too. Maybe a special rule that classes all bolt pistols as bolters when in a certain range of the primarch model.

Ah, now it seems like we're moving away from copying existing legions or just 1 person making up the entire thing and proposing it. So in essence, the idea so far is that one of the primarchs foresaw the future involving the death of the Emperor and the Heresy, so with another Primarch, decided to form a third faction? If we're going with a very unique specialization, there's not much available. But I had an idea where the second primarch (the one who joined the one who had the visions) was somehow considered weaker than all the others, and joined the first in a bid for power. There would have to be a reasoning behind this though, so as to explain why he didn't join Horus instead.

How about, in line with a philosophy of reason and logic, these marines didn't aspire toward the same martial honour as most other marine chapters? They may not have placed the same value on their chapter colours, relics, etc... Perhaps they actually paint their armour for the different theatres they fight in and fight conventionally using the same kind of fire and manoeuvre tactics one would find in a modern army? The masters of the modern day battlefield perhaps?


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The relationship between the two primarchs is worth exploring... perhaps the first to change his allegiance could be the idealist and the other Primarch his foil? It should also be decided what has happened to them... are they dead? Perhaps the first Primarch was killed?

I was thinking of making the two primarchs as brothers, allowing for even more story and personnality to the army and even an brotherly love. (Sounds quite dramatic but i think its worth a shot


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Allister and Constantine (the two names that I was thinking of) were the primarchs of the 2nd and 11th legions and they were brothers, now lets throw this into the mix. They do something terrible together to the emperor before the heresy, the emperor starts having visions of heresy in the near future. Instead of killing or hunting down the two primarchs he captures them and wipes their memory, leaving their power intact yet making them forget everything they know. He deletes all records of their previous selves and does the same to their legions. They slowly start having visions of their past and slowly begin to remember what happened. At the time of the heresy they vanish. Years later they suddenly reappear stronger and more intelligent than anyone else within the imperium. Their two legions now brotherhoods!

Didn't you just copy that word-for-word out of 'Angels of Retribution W.I.P.'?

'Tis feasible I guess but one has to ask where these Primarchs actually went?

FYI the Primarchs are all brothers anyway.

Kravus, you oughtn't decide names or propose concrete storyline at this point. It makes the whole project less flexible to work with for the community.
That being said, they could "do something terrible" to the Emperor as a direct result of Primarch1's visions, and maybe attempt a coup first, more quietly than Horus's thing. I doubt that mind-wiping an entire legion (let alone too) is feasible though. Someone else mentioned that maybe the 2 legions were sent on a secret mission? Maybe the Emperor sent them on this mission (to investigate outside the known Imperial territory?) as a penance for their actions, and removed their records as part of the penance and to help them in their mission.
I like that idea about them being quite practical in their approach and using camoflauge and such, that's certainly different than the other legions. It could also be connected to Primarch2 being weaker, the other legions wore bright colours because of their pride. They were strong to the point of seeming "invincible" and their disregard for camoflauge and traditional methods of warfare is evident of this. If Primarch2 was weaker than the others, wouldn't it be fitting for him and his legion to have to resort to using traditional tactics?

I get what your saying Zoom. An Arbiter kind of style to them (Halo) Deleting their records and sending them on a suicide mission to make up for what they did.

@Henners its copy and pasted because me and Constantine are trying to tie this together with the Angels of Retribution.

kravus master of Horus wrote:

Children of Eden

Name: Children of Eden
Founding: First Founding
Chapter Master: Allister Khaine
Home world: Eden Prime
Fortress-Monastery: Destiny’s Ascension
Main colours: Black, Red, Gold and Silver
Battle Cry: We have no beginning. We have no end. We are infinite, years after your civilization has been eradicated and forgotten, we will endure.
Response: We are legion. The time of our return is coming. Our numbers will darken the sky of every world.

Holy Moley! You really have to do something about that battle cry. By the time they say it and respond to it their enemies will overrun them and make it ten miles into your lines.

Since the fluff hints at the tragedies why don't we just say that maybe they met with untimely and unglorious deaths.

2nd Primarch: Flavius Posthumous. The Emperor arrives or planet Circus to find Flavius only to see that he had died 5 years before his arrival. Flavius had been adopted by a travelling group of pupeteers and became a master pupeteer. His travels took him to various schools to provide educational shows on water safety and the occasional sex education session. A master pupeteer, Flavius amazed and dazzled the crowds. He even rose to head the troupe himself. However fate is fickle and after a particularly animated and entertaining show using enhanced sock puppets, Flavius was invitde to a post show party hosted by Baron Heimlich. Flavius saw a bowl of fruit and decided to eat an apple whole in one shot to impress a young and gullible lady. But the apple became lodged in his throat. using the international sign for choking he reached for his throat. Someone started patting his back (not the right way to help a choking victim). As he turned purple Heimlich tried to use a maneouvre since named after him but was unable to wrap his arms around the massive Flavius' chest. He began to thrash and stumble. It is said that no one survived the crushing, shuddering weight of Flavius. Guests were accidentally killed and crushed as they ran to his rescue. Eventually the mighty Flavius stopped breathing and moving. They buried him atop a mighty hill. On top of this hill they built a theatre to host puppet shows depicting his life and tragic death.

11th Primarch: Yan Crispus. It is said that Yan's arrival to Morax IV came with the sighting of a massive comet streaking through the night sky. That comet was Yan. As he hurtled towards the planet with the power of a king and the wisdom of a wise man, the hope that Morax IV would join the pantheon of Imperial systems was dashed. For Morax IV was a gaseous giant unable to sustain life.
The end.

As I only own Horus Rising so far, and have only read about five chapters. Does any other info come forward about the false Emperor fella at the start, as that guy seems a likely candidate for one of the missing Primarchs?

Wow thats super depressing and mean!

Crantor that is just beautiful. Anyways, on topic, what is everyone willing to agree on so far?

Well.....
The two primarchs are definately forming this alliance as far as I can tell.
One of the primarchs are quite weak compared to the others.
They are a third party as they dont belong to chaos or the imperium.
I think thats what we've agreed on

And as for specialties can we agree on the weaker legion using "modern" warfare tactics?

My Two Cents-

How about something about this-

XI Legion

Name: Prophets of Destiny
Founding: 1st Founding
Primarch: Chen Yu Xing
Homeworld: Talon III
Fortress Monestary: Dragons Claw (Talon III)
Main Colours: Gold with platinum trims
Battle Cry: Unknown (also known as I can't think of one yet)

Try and adapt the Legion from there. There isn't a fully Oriental themed SM army out their, closest being White Scars but they are less so. Using my knowledge of Chinese Mythology I tried to think of a suitable name, Chen means Great (if my memory serves me correctly), Yu is Universe and Xing was a surname reserved for royalty. I picked Talon as the name to fit a sort of dragon themed marine army. For colours I went for the most 'royal/expensive' basicaly. As for another name, given these Primarchs can see the future or what have you, 'Prophets of Destiny' could be another suitable name

I personaly think a Chinese (and dragon) theme would be good since there aren't any other legions with those themes.

This is only a suggestion so feel free to change parts to suit (Colours, Homeworld, Battle Cry, Fortress Monestary).

We've also agreed that they weaker chapter uses modern war tactics.
For the second chapter thats more powerful I think we should make them really bad-ass. Kinda like grey knights even.


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Next we need to develope the weaker legion out more.
Name:
Primarch:
Home world:
Fortress:
Main ship:
etc, etc

That was the whole idea for the above Legion I posted. I made it thinking of them being the weaker lot.