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sure they did but I have never had to face the shots from a full 30 man mob they are usually thinned out before they get in range. and that always happens. 6+ armour save and even the lowly bolt pistol is ap5 denying that save. so the orks go through cover to get to me. even in cover 50 50 chance they get wounded by any hits. Orks get thinned and very rarely will a mob of 30 get to unload on anyone. between arty and armour and any other long range weapons 30 man mobs get messed up usually long before the get in range. This is my experience and like I said I play against orks at least 1 or 2 times a week. If you are getting shot up by mobs of 30 boys you screwed up your deployment allowing them to get close (a bad thing).
ork shooting has yet to scare me and probably never will but their close combat is amazing and thats whats bothersome more then anything.

Badandy wrote:Imeant to say wounds in that statement. Orks are my usual opponent and I'm sorry guys their shooting is pathetic. I already stated that obviously the more shots you get the more dice you roll thus more chances to hit. as for lootas never played anyone with a huge mob of them and if they roll 1-2 they only get one shot each with their crap bs of 2. Noone is arguing that more shots equals more chances all I said was on a shot for shot basis an ork boy with a shoota has a 16.5% of wounding with each shot. and that is true.

Yes, each shot has a 16.5% chance of scoring a wounding hit. But you're missing the really big point that you get two shots per ork, and that ork only costs you 6 points! So for 6 points you're scoring .33 wounding hits. That's a really solid output for a horde troop.

When you consider that you're then looking at a unit that's also very capable in assault, that versatility becomes a crucial part of a competitive ork list... the marginal increase in combat effectiveness from the slugga boy begins to look like a much weaker option.


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Badandy wrote:sure they did but I have never had to face the shots from a full 30 man mob they are usually thinned out before they get in range.

That boyz unit will regularly get into range because there are far more pressing targets demanding attention first. All those premium ork units are deadlier and units like the lootas will be hitting from turn one, so you really don't have the resources to worrying about those big mobs that are only dropping marginally in effectiveness with each wound inflicted.


But if you have the leet skills to stop a unit of 30 ork boyz getting within 18", why on Earth would you be worried about slugga boyz getting within charge range?

read what i said they are thinned out. i field tfc against this opponent regularly. orks die. I didn't say none get through.
I like to drop pod assualt a unit near the lootas on turn one and they are usually done as this guy only has 5 i believe and a mec boy. any ork slugga or not is super dangerous in close so i like to thin and if at all possible take the assualt to the remainder when they get close denying those upped stats to them and gaining an attack for myself and with the better inititive i go first. less than eleven and they are running usually. in a 1020 or 1040 pt game can't remember, i can field enough to deal with most everything he can throw at me. The games he wins i usually roll horrible or do something dumb that lets a mob thats a little to big to handle get close. I don't know about skill but that is the usual battleplan. thin them to the max by building an army of max shots and templates then when there numbers have dwindled take the assualt to them.

You mean you need to thin out hordes to beat them? Wow, such insight. Also completely irrelevant because the point of this is the comparison of two horde fighting styles.

You're just backpedaling, in fact, this just shows that a mob of shoota boys is dangerous because you have to thin them out. If they weren't dangerous you wouldn't need to bother with them. If they are as poor of shots as you were trying to claim you could just sit there, let them shoot at you, and go for bigger units.

again im not thinng the shots its the Ginormous amount of cc attack either gets in close that will kill me if i let it. technicaly i'm reducing the number of shots as well obviously. and yes I thin hordes smart ass that is great insight isn't it. are most people on this site teens or twenty somethings who are rude and know-it-alls or what? can't say i was warned about posting in online forums.
because opinions are like donkey-caves everyone has one and they all stink. latter kiddies Think I'll go play with the big boys elsewhere.

Badandy wrote:read what i said they are thinned out. i field tfc against this opponent regularly. orks die. I didn't say none get through.
I like to drop pod assualt a unit near the lootas on turn one and they are usually done as this guy only has 5 i believe and a mec boy. any ork slugga or not is super dangerous in close so i like to thin and if at all possible take the assualt to the remainder when they get close denying those upped stats to them and gaining an attack for myself and with the better inititive i go first. less than eleven and they are running usually. in a 1020 or 1040 pt game can't remember, i can field enough to deal with most everything he can throw at me. The games he wins i usually roll horrible or do something dumb that lets a mob thats a little to big to handle get close. I don't know about skill but that is the usual battleplan. thin them to the max by building an army of max shots and templates then when there numbers have dwindled take the assualt to them.

"with the better initiative i go first" What?

Note that you recognise that an ork in close, armed with a slugga or not, is very dangerous. Which is what people have been arguing - that if the ork can get into assault he'll do plenty of damage, and a little extra damage is a small gain for losing the ability to put out two shots per ork at 18".

And if you're taking on a guy who's putting a mob of 5 lootas on the field in 1,000 point games (1,020... who is playing 1,020 games? why not 1,203 point games?) then don't get too satisfied as that's a pretty mediocre set up - small units of lootas are extremely fragile.


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Badandy wrote:because opinions are like donkey-caves everyone has one and they all stink. latter kiddies Think I'll go play with the big boys elsewhere.

You've been aggressive from your first post and your arguments have been weak. Don't blame anyone but yourself for the reaction you've gotten.

Mainly I run slugga & choppa boys who run across the board and dish out an insane amount of melee attacks to all that cross their paths!
I'll use shootas in objective games mostly and have had lots of fun (& success) with a full crew of em darting around in a trukk making a mess of things!

I run both. One unit with shootas and one with sluggas/choppas. That way I get the best of both worlds!

In general, I like shootas that slight bit more, as their ability to shoot before assault (despite the relative inaccuracy) is a nasty ability, especially as they still get 3 attacks each at str 4 in the ensuing combat. However, Slugga boyz are still cool, and are very handy for cutting up units double-quick.

For the record, despite all the fuss Badandy makes about us disrespectful young'uns, he comes off sounding like a 12-year-old (which would explain his competency in math, actually...).

And for feth's sake man, don't evaluate ork shooting based on your piss poor opponent (5 lootas? Who the hell takes just 5 lootas? Go 15 or go bust is what I always say).

Fafnir wrote:For the record, despite all the fuss Badandy makes about us disrespectful young'uns, he comes off sounding like a 12-year-old (which would explain his competency in math, actually...).

And for feth's sake man, don't evaluate ork shooting based on your piss poor opponent (5 lootas? Who the hell takes just 5 lootas? Go 15 or go bust is what I always say).

The more the merrier, they say. using 15 burnas is always great for a laugh.

I came back to this thread, to Mathhammer?

Woo!

The point is for everyone... Shoota boyz will at least get a small amount of hits, wounds, and maybe a few kills.

They're designed to soften up the unit they're about to kill.

Why not just run both? (from a green tide perspective) run the sluggas up and directly at the closest enemy, and let the shootas behind them soften up what the sluggas are gonna hit? I don't prescribe to mathhammer so my arguments have no basis in it but I know I can (key word: CAN) drop a termie squad with 1 shoota boy unit, this is an extremely useful fact. I also know a squad of lightning claw termies, especially with a chaplain can put a major hurt on a squad of slugga boys. I also know that a slugga boy squad has a better chance of downing anything in cc than a shoota squad. With all of this info I see good reasons to take both, so why argue? instead of bringing only a hammer or only a screw driver to a job that requires both just put one in each pocket and rest assured you have the tools you need.

Because, while slugga boys may be a hammer, shoota boyz are not screwdrivers--they're swiss army knives.

Fafnir wrote:Because, while slugga boys may be a hammer, shoota boyz are not screwdrivers--they're swiss army knives.

I would suggest that they are more of a spork. Multiple uses but still limited.

Actually the hammer vs. screwdriver bit is from red green (see this flat head screw? and this Philips screw? and this robertson screw? Now why carry around multiple screwdrivers when all can be equally solved by... A hammer!) I am not actually comparing them to those tools. If I were I'd go with ssREV

yournamehere wrote:Actually the hammer vs. screwdriver bit is from red green (see this flat head screw? and this Philips screw? and this robertson screw? Now why carry around multiple screwdrivers when all can be equally solved by... A hammer!) I am not actually comparing them to those tools. If I were I'd go with ssREV

Red Green would make a great Ork.

Vene wrote:

yournamehere wrote:Actually the hammer vs. screwdriver bit is from red green (see this flat head screw? and this Philips screw? and this robertson screw? Now why carry around multiple screwdrivers when all can be equally solved by... A hammer!) I am not actually comparing them to those tools. If I were I'd go with ssREV

Red Green would make a great Ork.

Thats probably what drew me to orks in the first place, been watching that maniac scence I was a kid, and his way of thinking goes right in line with orky mek intelligence.

well I just learned not to get into a mathhammer war!

kenshin620 wrote:well I just learned not to get into a mathhammer war!

No, you just learned not to be wrong.

Mathhammer this all you want, but trust me when your staring down at a swarm of outflanking genestealers your really gunna wish you had those shootas!

Fafnir:

I believe DashofPepper's Nova Open army included two units of five Lootas each.

....

I got nothin to add.


hope that helps!!!!

General_Chaos wrote:Mathhammer this all you want, but trust me when your staring down at a swarm of outflanking genestealers your really gunna wish you had those shootas!

The mathhammer does say you want the shootas.

Nurglitch wrote:Fafnir:

I believe DashofPepper's Nova Open army included two units of five Lootas each.

Yeah, but that's DashofPepper you're talking about.

So?

He knows what to do with small loota squads. Shred light armour like it's nobody's business while targetting seperate tanks. Blah blah blah.

I doubt his friend, with just a single squad of 5, especially considering Badandy's commentary, would be used as effectivly.

I find experience with a unit is what teaches one to use it effectively, rather than simply fielding what randoms on the Internet would advise. If you're not willing to risk a few learning experiences, you're probably not the kind of person who should be wasting their time playing games.

Nurglitch wrote:I find experience with a unit is what teaches one to use it effectively, rather than simply fielding what randoms on the Internet would advise. If you're not willing to risk a few learning experiences, you're probably not the kind of person who should be wasting their time playing games.

Exactly what he said... I was all Sluggas > Shootas then after playing both I went to playing a mix, however for foot slogging. I'm really thinking Shootas > Sluggas.

If you don't try, you'll never know. I'm also the squad of 3 x5 Lootas type player, I learned what to do with them.

Until you try and see for yourself, you won't ever understand the full capabilities of your army.