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Black Templar aren't hard-up for minis, as I really like our upgrade sprue, Grimaldus, and Helbrecht.

The codex could use a polishing, though. Some of the newer toys (Ironclads) would be nice. Not having to buy grenades as upgrades for all of your marines would also be a plus.

But Grey Knights are strongly hinted as next. They should be sweet looking. So long Grey Knight allies, though.

I don't understand the people that say BT need an update, they do great in the current edition, a couple of their wargear options are silly but their rules for the most part work great, and a few of their units like assault termies are fantastic.

tgf wrote:(BT) do great in the current edition

I have not seen this to be true. I have not lost to them in about 2 years. (Yes, I would love to) Anecdotal, sure, but so is the rest.

Regardless, since the question was only about Space Marines, its BT; I do not think they should be redone soon because of the models though, it is 100% rules.

Well, of the possible answers to this question (space marines, dark angels, black templar, blood angels, space wolfs, grey knights) I think grey knights would be the one to get a new codex first. They're still using a third edition codex to my memory. Then Black templars are next as far as old marine codex's go. Then dark angels.

Since I like to think of myself as a deathwing player, that ocasionally uses combined wing armies and whatnot, but usually always belial, I think dark angels are not in as big of a need for an update. And we have rites of battle too!

Besides, knowing how the codex writers keep cycling marine wargear rules, dark angels would probably be re-released with even bigger 'balance' of points added in and rules for wargear and such, we'd probably still have sub-par wargear, special rules, psychic abilities, and everything else except for deathwing. And even our deathwing would have very limited options for gear.

And from my limited perspective based on fovusing on terminators, black templar armies atleast get to field 2 assault cannons in a squad of 5 terminators.

DA are in dire, dire need of an update though. :(

If I want to fill my heavy support slot with 3 x 5-man MEQ squads, each with 4 missile launchers, DA's versions cost me 510 pts... versus 390 for the same from Blood Angels, or 345 for the same from Space Wolves. The points difference is enough to buy a whole extra unit. It's just getting silly...

DA need to get a major fluff overhaul as well as a bunch of unique equipment to justify being a seperate chapter.


Vanilla does Bike/speeder armies better and, from a fluff standpoint, should be able to run an all terminator army(1st company style which is how DA do it)

Iron Hands! Fight the Power! What? Dont all first founding chapters get special charicters? Or is it only chapters that worship the Emperor?

Barring that unlikely inctance, a new DA book bringing them back to their roots... making them... NATIVE AMERICANS! IN SPACE!

Personally I want *everything* for DA.

I want obsessive emo Fallen-hunting Hells Angeli-ish knights on jetikes AND obsessive emo Fallen-hunting plasma-toting monks in Rhinos AND obsessive Fallen-hunting emo ritualistic Native Americans in ancient Terminator armour. Only with more plasma.

We have 3 CC-specialist marine chapters -- give us a shooty specialist, with 2 heavy weapons or 2 plasma guns per squad, and easy twin-linked plasma, and uniquely torture-focused chaplains, and Termie armour that is still covered in genestealer acid scars from the first Space Hulk missions, and pre-battle rituals, and maybe a squad of jetbikes...

I was thinking, blood angels have assault squads as troops, dark angels could have devistator squads as troops

I wish for the day when the dark angels codex is considered to be the 'over the top marine codex of the year'

Or at the very least, flesh out deathwing and ravenwing with more unique choices for weaponry and wargear, and give us something cool for the regular marines of the DA too!

Ian Sturrock wrote:

2 plasma guns per squad

Already been done, Gray Hunters, and they are billy bad asses in close combat too. Devastators as troops is a neat idea, I never run them in heavy slots but as troops I would consider it.

personally i'd like some splat books which allow you to field specific legions, normally just by altering FOC and adding resticitions and a few ne units, like the old chaos codex with the books of chaos in and the old blood angels and space wolves

Xyon wrote:I was thinking, blood angels have assault squads as troops, dark angels could have devistator squads as troops

I wish for the day when the dark angels codex is considered to be the 'over the top marine codex of the year'

Or at the very least, flesh out deathwing and ravenwing with more unique choices for weaponry and wargear, and give us something cool for the regular marines of the DA too!

Why would the Dark Angels use Devastators as troops? it make no sense fluff-wise or other. The Dark Angels specialties are fast attack and heavy infantry, hence the reason that the masters make those units into scoring units.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Xyon wrote:I was thinking, blood angels have assault squads as troops, dark angels could have devistator squads as troops

I wish for the day when the dark angels codex is considered to be the 'over the top marine codex of the year'

Or at the very least, flesh out deathwing and ravenwing with more unique choices for weaponry and wargear, and give us something cool for the regular marines of the DA too!

Why would the Dark Angels use Devastators as troops? it make no sense fluff-wise or other. The Dark Angels specialties are fast attack and heavy infantry, hence the reason that the masters make those units into scoring units.

Its just a brainstorming idea I thought of. I'm sure it could be explained. Some people think they're too much like regular marines to have their own codex, and I just think it would be an interesting way to make them different. I personally think they're good enough for their own codex, they're the first legion after all! And their home base fortress monestary is a gigantic planetary core with engines and guns and docking rigs and all that.

Besides, blood angels battle compaies do not have more assault squads than standard codex chapters, yet they have assault squads as troops, so whats the difference between letting dark angels field devastators as troops? It doesnt represent having a higher quantity of over all devastator squads, just the frequency of use.

And if you dont count special characters, dark angels only have 1 troop choice. Granted I love using belial and having terminators as troops, being able to have more troops would be good.

DA are 100% Codex following fluffwise, BA are not.

Grey Templar wrote:DA are 100% Codex following fluffwise, BA are not.

...except they're not. The Ravenwing is a non codex formation due to it being the second company.

Grey Templar wrote:DA are 100% Codex following fluffwise, BA are not.

Sure... other than the deathwing and ravenwing, thats still 100% right?

Blood angels dont even have more than 1 reserve company of assault squads.

So fluffwise they might favor assault squads, but organization wise they dont. They have as many assault squads as any other chapter does, but they're able to field 3 battle companies worth of assault squads in a single army.

A little rewrite here and there and poof, dark angel devastator squads as troops.

all codex chapters have an ASSAULT company.

the assault company consists entirely of Assault squads who are all also skilled in piloting their chapters speeders and Bikes.

only difference is that the assault company is usually the 7th and not the 2nd however the Codex doesn't specify that the Assault company HAS to be the 7th.


Deathwing is just the 1st company(which, in codex chapters, is all veterans capable of wearing TDA)

Yeah, except that dark angels have the 2nd (ravenwing) company, AND a whole 8th company of reserve assault marines.

And yeah, each chapter does have a 1st company, which is harder to argue that we're different, but they use power armor in vet squads while da dont.

it could also be argued, that because dark angels have 1 less battle company than codex armies, that they want to field more firepower in the ones they do have, using more of their reserve devastator squads with their battle companies.

the DA might be able to field their entire 1st in TDA(likely because they have tons of equipment), but veterans will still deploy in PA.

There are so many different chapters that they should come out with a book that has the main rules, but then has each of the "main" chapters(Dark Angels, Black Templar, White Scars, Imperial Fists, Salamanders, Crimson Fists) and rules for them. That way not limited to like one Special Character in the normal Space Marine book and can use all different ones different ways.

fairly easy.

add Belial and Samial to the Codex and have Belials ability be to take Terminators as troops.

Samial would allow Bikes and Speeders to be troops

Xyon wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:DA are 100% Codex following fluffwise, BA are not.

Sure... other than the deathwing and ravenwing, thats still 100% right?

Blood angels dont even have more than 1 reserve company of assault squads.

So fluffwise they might favor assault squads, but organization wise they dont. They have as many assault squads as any other chapter does, but they're able to field 3 battle companies worth of assault squads in a single army.

A little rewrite here and there and poof, dark angel devastator squads as troops.

Try your math again... The Dark Angels lose two companies to special formations, in the Deathwing (veterans who are only in terminator armour) and the Ravenwing. So that's a 20% variance from the codex... We only field two battle companies, then reserves, then scouts as normal. Devastators are not really in the fluff as something they wish to field on a regular basis. Ever read the Codexes? Either of them? Probably not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:fairly easy.

add Belial and Samial to the Codex and have Belials ability be to take Terminators as troops.

Samial would allow Bikes and Speeders to be troops

And Dark Angels already do this,so what is the point?

IMO, BTs need a codex more than the Dark Angels. I have played several games against the BT and have tabled them by turn 4 each time.. and with different codices as well.

The problem is though, that GW has created a monster of a codex in C:BA which is, again, IMO way over powered, and so, if the templar codex doesnt come close to the CC monster codex that it should be, players will be unhappy with it. Of course, there are those who, even if you gave them the end all beat all codex, they would be unhappy because they screwed up the fluff or something (you know the ones... no matter what happens they are unhappy with something in GW)


I also think along the same lines as many other on here in that the DA should be a couple added pages of fluff and SCs in the C:SM book, or maybe even a WD PDF codex like the previous edition of BA.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Xyon wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:DA are 100% Codex following fluffwise, BA are not.

Sure... other than the deathwing and ravenwing, thats still 100% right?

Blood angels dont even have more than 1 reserve company of assault squads.

So fluffwise they might favor assault squads, but organization wise they dont. They have as many assault squads as any other chapter does, but they're able to field 3 battle companies worth of assault squads in a single army.

A little rewrite here and there and poof, dark angel devastator squads as troops.

Try your math again... The Dark Angels lose two companies to special formations, in the Deathwing (veterans who are only in terminator armour) and the Ravenwing. So that's a 20% variance from the codex... We only field two battle companies, then reserves, then scouts as normal. Devastators are not really in the fluff as something they wish to field on a regular basis. Ever read the Codexes? Either of them? Probably not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Well the Ravenwing is the 6th "biker" company, and the 1st is the first and the 8th being an assault reserve is an assault reserve, 100% codex.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:fairly easy.

add Belial and Samial to the Codex and have Belials ability be to take Terminators as troops.

Samial would allow Bikes and Speeders to be troops

And Dark Angels already do this,so what is the point?

Eliminating an unnessisary codex for a chapter that is more ultramarine than the Sallies or IH.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Xyon wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:DA are 100% Codex following fluffwise, BA are not.

Sure... other than the deathwing and ravenwing, thats still 100% right?

Blood angels dont even have more than 1 reserve company of assault squads.

So fluffwise they might favor assault squads, but organization wise they dont. They have as many assault squads as any other chapter does, but they're able to field 3 battle companies worth of assault squads in a single army.

A little rewrite here and there and poof, dark angel devastator squads as troops.

Try your math again... The Dark Angels lose two companies to special formations, in the Deathwing (veterans who are only in terminator armour) and the Ravenwing. So that's a 20% variance from the codex... We only field two battle companies, then reserves, then scouts as normal. Devastators are not really in the fluff as something they wish to field on a regular basis. Ever read the Codexes? Either of them? Probably not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grey Templar wrote:fairly easy.

add Belial and Samial to the Codex and have Belials ability be to take Terminators as troops.

Samial would allow Bikes and Speeders to be troops

And Dark Angels already do this,so what is the point?

wait a second, are you arguing with me or with grey knight? because it seems like you're arguing with points i make, except that your arguments are exactly the same thing that i said but with different words.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:PDF codex like the previous edition of BA.

don't PDF us please, thats like asking for sand in the vaseline.

@Ensis: PDF any codex =

So next release should be GK ?
Awesome psyker marines.

I think its a bad idea to cramp anything into codex supersmurfs, as M.W. was unable to give at least 1 SC to any 1st founding Legion included
in that codex. So there is no space to fill in any additional SC.

Secondly, DA and BT are concepts.
Both differ from codex, as BT mostly ignore it and DA could add " extra shooty and defensive marines" to the colllection of
"assaulty marines", " hero/counterassault marines", " basic marines ".

You know what would really break the mold?

Having a dex that focused on both the Iron hands and the Iron Warriors, with some Mechanicum/Dark Mechanicum stuff thrown in.

I'd gak my pants.

Manchu wrote:You know what would really break the mold?

Having a dex that focused on both the Iron hands and the Iron Warriors, with some Mechanicum/Dark Mechanicum stuff thrown in.

I'd gak my pants.

I dunno, I really want a proper Ad Mech codex. That wouldn't do much to bring my dream to fruition.

On behalf of nobody at all, I hereby veto your idea!

I just think you're much more likely to get any AdMech if it can be sold as part of a Marine army.

Just look at the poor techpriest!