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Ordo Dakka wrote:I can vouch that nothing was said about Starcraft at GD 2000.
You can vouch for every single conversation held at Games Day? Wow, you're powerful.
There are other ways of getting information from GW employees than just the seminars.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
This has got to be a very good contender for the crappest thread for the year. 2 & a bit pages because some company uses the term "forgeworld" - really?
2014 will be the year of zero GW purchases. Kneadite instead of GS, no paints or models. 2014 will be the year I finally make the move to military models and away from miniature games.
fullheadofhair wrote:This has got to be a very good contender for the crappest thread for the year. 2 & a bit pages because some company uses the term "forgeworld" - really?
+1
But hey, lets argue over which company stole what from who for another page!
Seriously people, turn off the damn computer and go outside for some time.
Oh hi there I see you haven't read any GW novels written in the last 10 years.
Hmmm, not really sure how to respond to this.......stupidly, I've kept coming back to GW drivel time and time again, partly in the hope that it will get better, and partly because I realise that if it doesn't, its at least a throw away read.....you know, something for the airport lounge, or bath time / toliet reading.
In terms of time frame, I've been suckered into purchasing and reading quite a lot of their recent stuff (quite strange, considering how little I think of it ).....I think I'm well positioned therefore, in my opinion.
Of course, you're free to ignore my thoughts / opinions in place of your own.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/19 21:37:10
Kanluwen wrote:Er, no. That's what a "licensing" department is for.
Sorry, but I worked in Marketing for one of the big 4 banks in Australia... we handled the IP and there was no such entity as a 'Licensing Department'... Im quite sure if GW is as profit motivated as they seem to be a Licensing Department would be something that can be shaved and you can squeeze your little paralegal fanbois into the unemployment queue and have 1 remain to handle this item.
Thus, you can deny and 'Er' all you want, you are still incorrect and a sodding fanboi.
Yeah! Silly Kanluwen, everyone knows that banks have loads of intellectual property to license out, I mean look at all the games universes Barclays created!
You can't forget the smash hit game that they licensed out last year, using their IP: "Stock Analyst 3: The Double Dip Recession"
Or not.
Just because you worked in marketing at a bank and the licensing was merged with marketing, doesn't mean that GW doesn't have a licensing department, they have much more IP to license, in the forms of games like Dawn of War and Warhammer Online, and in films like the Ultramarines Movie.
Oh hi there I see you haven't read any GW novels written in the last 10 years.
Hmmm, not really sure how to respond to this.......stupidly, I've kept coming back to GW drivel time and time again, partly in the hope that it will get better, and partly because I realise that if it doesn't, its at least a throw away read.....you know, something for the airport lounge, or bath time / toliet reading.
In terms of time frame, I've been suckered into purchasing and reading quite a lot of their recent stuff (quite strange, considering how little I think of it ).....I think I'm well positioned therefore, in my opinion.
Of course, you're free to ignore my thoughts / opinions in place of your own.
Of course we're going to ignore them when despite your claims to the otherwise, your posts demonstrate that you actually HAVEN'T read any of it...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/20 00:51:44
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
I highly doubt anything in halo is ripped from Warhammer as they aren't similar in the slightest. Forge World just happens to be pure coincidence as I'm sure barely anyone in bungie who had a say on the map name even knew what GW is.
inb4 Spartans and Space marines. Completely different backgrounds. /Thread
No, no, no, you see, powered armor can only be invented ONCE! and then everything thereafter is a TOTAL rip off of the first time.
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
Oh hi there I see you haven't read any GW novels written in the last 10 years.
Hmmm, not really sure how to respond to this.......stupidly, I've kept coming back to GW drivel time and time again, partly in the hope that it will get better, and partly because I realise that if it doesn't, its at least a throw away read.....you know, something for the airport lounge, or bath time / toliet reading.
In terms of time frame, I've been suckered into purchasing and reading quite a lot of their recent stuff (quite strange, considering how little I think of it ).....I think I'm well positioned therefore, in my opinion.
Of course, you're free to ignore my thoughts / opinions in place of your own.
And the older stuff? what did you like?
I always find the Slayer series a good read (not a lot of "evil for the sake of evil") and the Angelika Fleischer novels are also to be recommended as warhammer fiction IMO.
for the rest, well... I read a really good homage to "with fire and sword/the deluge" called "Riders of the Dead" (Dan Abnett I think).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/20 20:09:14
I am a little surprised that any individual who considers themselves well versed in science fiction would ever state that any of GWs world or race concepts are wholly original. For instance, if I told you that there was a book written a few years before 40K came out that was centered around heroic marines from Terra that wore suits of fully enclosed, powered armor with a backpack that held the power source, you fanbois would call me a liar. Then I could tell you that the armor came in three types, the standard marine type, the extremely heavy version and a scout version. They set out from Terra to reclaim space for mankind from an insectoid race of aliens that was terrorizing the galaxy. I know more lies, right?
Wrong. The book was "ARMOR" by John Steakley and it hit bookstores world wide (that includes little old England) in late 1984. Seems to me that a bunch of Sci-Fi geeks, like the ones that worked at a little fledgling game company, might have read a book like that and been "inspired" to make a game out of it three years later. Hell, even the original cover art looks like a space marine concept drawing.
The idea wasn't original to John Steakley either. Back in 1977, some guy wrote a book about a race of "Bugs" with a hive mind that had twice attacked and nearly destroyed the earth. You might have read it? The guy was Orson Scott Card and the book was "Enders Game"
Oh wait, he didn't create that idea either. Robert A Heinlein did it in the 1950's. I would be willing to bet he drew "inspiration" from somewhere as well.
And Gav Thorpe IS a terrible writer. "Kill Team" is the perfect example. The premise is that they desperately need each of these individuals and their extremely singular and valuable skill sets in order to complete this terribly important mission. Then during training, the leader arbitrarily kills one of the operators. Well, I guess they needed all of them but THAT guy. Pfft.
Oh, I almost forgot about the C.A.D.S. series by John Sievert. A series of books starting in early 1985 about a bunch of post apocalyptic solders in armored space suits who used rocket pistols. (Sound like a bolt pistol to anyone?) They rode around on tricked out trikes (Squats anyone?) that were loaded with weapons systems out the whazoo. There were already three novels from this series in the stores before Rogue Trader was published.
But I doubt 40K was influenced by any of that. Rick Priestly was just an incredible genius that came up with this totally new concept in a vacuum.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2010/09/21 04:40:28
Kanluwen wrote:GW didn't, so rather than Blizzard doing something completely original they altered a few things here and there like names, basic structures of the characters etc(or are you really going to tell me that the Zerg "Overmind" isn't a flatout copy of the Hive Mind?
Do you believe that GW originated the concept of a hive mind? I mean, seriously, it's an old, old SF concept, accusing Blizzard in the 1990s of copying something that has been in books since at least the 1930s. ZOMG someone copied the same thing that GW copied from decades ago, HOW TERRIBLE.
That the Protoss being psychics with a "Path" that their race follows, and the last creations of a dying race doesn't match up the Eldar being the creations of the Old Ones?
Do you think that GW invented the concept of psychics/mystics following a certain path to avoid disaster? ZOMG Blizzard used another old concept that GW ripped off ages ago, OH HORRORS!
Elder weren't creations of the Old Ones back when Starcraft came out, that fluff changed well after 2000 when GW fleshed out Necrons, so if anything GW stole that from Blizzard, not the other way around. Elder were just an old race up until sometime around 4th edition.
Or that the Terran Marines being ordinary criminals jacked up on stimulants and wearing heavy powered armor that they're locked into doesn't match the Space Marine fluff of that timeframe?) but otherwise left their game alone and published it.
Space marines have never been criminals jacked up on stimulants locked into heavy powered armor. What GW fluff are you reading that had anything remotely like that? In old fluff marines were more like what Guard Stormtroopers are today, but they never were criminals locked into armor. And marine armor was never the heavy flight suits Starcraft uses, it's alwas been human-sized not highly over-sized. ZOMG Blizzard did something that's not what GW did, they're copying GW inversely!
Blizzard might have tried to get GW to buy a Science fiction game from them, but since this is the first I've heard of it I'm going to need a better reference than 'some guy who's not very familiar with science fiction says so'. And that is irrelevant to whether or not SC is a ripoff of 40k; it has it's own background and look, which is highly distinct from 40k, but is science fiction so draws on some of the same tropes.
Kanluwen wrote:Noone's saying they did. However, there's undeniable parallels in the way they behave in both universes that are far too similar.
If there's anything more than superficially similar between the cultures of WoW Orcs and WHFB Orcs, I'll eat my left shoe.
WoW orcs are green except when they're not, that's a huge similarity if you ignore the brown ones. Also they fought against humans, clearly that's ripped straight from GW. They also have a battle cry, so that's ripping off "Waaaaggh" from GW. They're aggressive, obviously that didn't come from Tolkien, so again they're ripping off GW. Oh, they use axes, that's another GW rip. If you try hard enough, everything in fantasy is a rip of WHFB, and everything in SF is a rip of WH40k, even stuff that was written before either franchise started.
Kanluwen wrote:Noone's saying they did. However, there's undeniable parallels in the way they behave in both universes that are far too similar.
If there's anything more than superficially similar between the cultures of WoW Orcs and WHFB Orcs, I'll eat my left shoe.
WoW orcs are green except when they're not, that's a huge similarity if you ignore the brown ones. Also they fought against humans, clearly that's ripped straight from GW. They also have a battle cry, so that's ripping off "Waaaaggh" from GW. They're aggressive, obviously that didn't come from Tolkien, so again they're ripping off GW. Oh, they use axes, that's another GW rip. If you try hard enough, everything in fantasy is a rip of WHFB, and everything in SF is a rip of WH40k, even stuff that was written before either franchise started.
They stand on 2 legs , thats ripped off from GW They have have sharp teeth , thats ripped from GW They are very muscular , thats also from GW They dont have melodious war shouts , instead they have blood curdling roars , thats also from GW
People have some really bizarre ideas about what constitutes a 'rip off'. Fantasy is derivative. All of it. Tolkien took his fantasy creations from old myths. None of it is original, the art is found in putting new twists and new ideas onto old works.
Picking out who used a concept or an idea first is a fun game, but it doesn't tell us anything about the quality of the work. Using it first doesn't mean using it well, afterall.
One of the things I like most about GW has been their willingness to embrace the pastiche nature of the universe. It's a shame that that's slowly been dropped by GW in favour of a more coherent tone.
βWe may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.β
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
The issue with GW is not that they have been inspired by, borrowed from and down right stolen other peoples ideas over the last 30 years. The issue is not that many of the ideas and concepts GW touts as it's own date back to the earliest recorded history, being part of legend and folklore as long as men have sat around a campfire and wondered what was out there in the dark.
The real issue with GW is that they are trying to convince people, perhaps because they are truly convinced themselves, that they created and now own every little single sci-fi and fantasy idea out there. I used to think it was funny, until people started to actually side with GW. Then I was just stunned. Stunned that people are either so lacking in intelligence that they believe everything they read or hear with out even a little bit of skepticism , or they are just too fricken lazy to to actually do any research into a subject to find out the truth for themselves.
If you look up any idea that GW thinks they created, you will find other people that did it first. Perhaps slightly different, perhaps not. Then research those people and their work and you will find someone that did it before they did. And so on and so forth. There really is very little "new" under the sun.
Don't get me wrong, anything GW came up with they should be able to protect. It is just that they have come up with almost nothing.
For Example:
Tau: The 19th letter of the Greek alphabet. The name of an alien race in the game "Freelancer" two years before GW released the Tau Codex
Dante: A 14th century poet named Dante Alighieri wrote the "Divine Comedy", which has been more commonly known by the name of its opening portion, Inferno, just a few hundred years before GW thought it would be cute to name a character Dante and give him an Inferno pistol.
Nostramo: The Night Lords home world is a slight letter adjustment of the name of a book written in 1904. Nostromo was written by Joseph Conrad.( What was the name the Emperor gave Night Haunter?) The book is basically the Horus Heresy story.
If you just research just about anything you think GW created, you will find that they did not. The fact that GW tries to tell people they own these ideas, attacking any person that has the audacity to write anything "inspired" by their thievery, like a pack of rabid dogs, makes them unscrupulous men without honor. In other words, corporate business men.
taebeck wrote: The issue with GW is not that they have been inspired by, borrowed from and down right stolen other peoples ideas over the last 30 years. The issue is not that many of the ideas and concepts GW touts as it's own date back to the earliest recorded history, being part of legend and folklore as long as men have sat around a campfire and wondered what was out there in the dark.
The real issue with GW is that they are trying to convince people, perhaps because they are truly convinced themselves, that they created and now own every little single sci-fi and fantasy idea out there. I used to think it was funny, until people started to actually side with GW. Then I was just stunned. Stunned that people are either so lacking in intelligence that they believe everything they read or hear with out even a little bit of skepticism , or they are just too fricken lazy to to actually do any research into a subject to find out the truth for themselves.
If you look up any idea that GW thinks they created, you will find other people that did it first. Perhaps slightly different, perhaps not. Then research those people and their work and you will find someone that did it before they did. And so on and so forth. There really is very little "new" under the sun.
Don't get me wrong, anything GW came up with they should be able to protect. It is just that they have come up with almost nothing.
For Example:
Tau: The 19th letter of the Greek alphabet. The name of an alien race in the game "Freelancer" two years before GW released the Tau Codex
Dante: A 14th century poet named Dante Alighieri wrote the "Divine Comedy", which has been more commonly known by the name of its opening portion, Inferno, just a few hundred years before GW thought it would be cute to name a character Dante and give him an Inferno pistol.
Nostramo: The Night Lords home world is a slight letter adjustment of the name of a book written in 1904. Nostromo was written by Joseph Conrad.( What was the name the Emperor gave Night Haunter?) The book is basically the Horus Heresy story.
If you just research just about anything you think GW created, you will find that they did not. The fact that GW tries to tell people they own these ideas, attacking any person that has the audacity to write anything "inspired" by their thievery, like a pack of rabid dogs, makes them unscrupulous men without honor. In other words, corporate business men.
+1, also, can I adopt you?
Also, Rick Priestly is the devil.
Gav Thorpe is to authors what a quadraplegic is to lap-dancing. Sure, he can do it, but not as well as those equipped to do so.
MikZor wrote:
We can't help that american D&D is pretty much daily life for us (Aussies)
Walking to shops, "i'll take a short cut through this bush", random encounter! Lizard with no legs.....
I kid Since i avoid bushlands that is But we're not that bad... are we?
sebster wrote:People have some really bizarre ideas about what constitutes a 'rip off'. Fantasy is derivative. All of it. Tolkien took his fantasy creations from old myths. None of it is original, the art is found in putting new twists and new ideas onto old works.
Picking out who used a concept or an idea first is a fun game, but it doesn't tell us anything about the quality of the work....
+1
Augustus wrote:I prefer to think that each generation revisits great stories and puts their own fresh perspective on them, and we as gamers and lovers of the art should welcome these fresh interpretations!
Certainly controversy is fun, especially in forums. But I have seen this come up before and regret when the discussion follows this pattern:
Well my favorite <great fictional thing> is better than, or pre dates, or ripped off from your favorite <great fictional thing>.
We ought to recognize the great common elements, and appreciate the advancement of the genre and the myriad permutations making for greatly expanded worlds that comes with every retelling.
eledamris wrote:Could Halo have come up with something a little less GW-ish than "Forgeworld" for it's level builder? This might just be coincidence, and it might just be that I don't like the Halo games, but it seems like a lot of things rip off of those few nuggets of originality that GW has. See virtually anything that Blizzard has ever produced. Now I'm not saying that GW has never ripped off of anyone. They do it all the time. Sometimes it's a bit tongue-in-cheek, such as naming all the Lizardmen special character mounts after the Dinobots, and sometimes it's a bit more overt, like Tyranids, Space Marines, and half of WHFB. But I am tired of people getting into the hobby and saying "Man, those Orks are totally just a rip-off of WoW."
I dunno, just my $.02.
Man, you wrote this post in English. Don't you know that people have been doing that for literally YEARS now? Hell, English is just a ripoff of Latin anyway. Jeez.
eledamris wrote:Could Halo have come up with something a little less GW-ish than "Forgeworld" for it's level builder? This might just be coincidence, and it might just be that I don't like the Halo games, but it seems like a lot of things rip off of those few nuggets of originality that GW has. See virtually anything that Blizzard has ever produced. Now I'm not saying that GW has never ripped off of anyone. They do it all the time. Sometimes it's a bit tongue-in-cheek, such as naming all the Lizardmen special character mounts after the Dinobots, and sometimes it's a bit more overt, like Tyranids, Space Marines, and half of WHFB. But I am tired of people getting into the hobby and saying "Man, those Orks are totally just a rip-off of WoW."
I dunno, just my $.02.
Man, you wrote this post in English. Don't you know that people have been doing that for literally YEARS now? Hell, English is just a ripoff of Latin anyway. Jeez.
Technically, it's mostly German as read by a blind Frenchman.
I dislike Halo as well, but I'm not going to get all up in arms about this. Everyone draws inspiration from all types of common sources and each other, it's what they do with the ideas and how they twist them that makes them their own.
In other news the sun came up in the east this morning.
Goliath wrote:Since when has GW gone around saying that they invented all of Sci-Fi and Fantasy?
Did I miss the world-wide memo?
And can you give me an example of times that GW has attacked people for writing stuff based off of their "thievery"? (as you put it)
taebeck certainly is comedy gold. I reallly didn't expect anyone to be dim enough to literally take my last post and blow it up into a full-blown rant.
Taebeck, here's a hint. When you have to completely make up a target for your 'righteous indignation,' that should be a hint about just how full of it you really are.
Seriously, you've never actually read 'Armor' have you, because your synopsis sounds like the most you did was glance at the back of the book. And the similarities between it and Space Marines, or even any other facet of 40k? Pretty close to non-existent, beyond they both have sci-fi powered armor in a war setting. Take a guy and put him in fancy armor, and there's a pretty good chance someone, somewhere, has already done something similar. Direct comparisons to 'Armor' are particularly laughable. Take any of the eponymous suits and plant them in the 40kverse, and they could probably tear through an entire marine chapter while only working up a moderate sweat. The military, setting, scale, none of it meshes. The only coinciding factors are a focus on sci-fi guys in fancy armor.
Seriously, if you're going to tear into GW, do it for something they've actually done wrong, not some custom crafted little butthurt you made for yourself.
"-Nonsense, the Inquisitor and his retinue are our hounoured guests, of course we should invite them to celebrate Four-armed Emperor-day with us..." Thought for the Day - Never use the powerfist hand to wipe.
