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Kilkrazy wrote:Could they be de-programmed, like people who are rescued from cults?

if, by de-programmed, you mean unhinge their minds and bend them to the will of chaos, then yes I suppose,

I was thinking that, as SMs are mentally programmed in the first place to become SMs, perhaps they could be deprogrammed in a similar way.

I suppose so, I mean it seems plausible at least. If may go so far as to point to the Soul Drinkers, I would say that to break Imperial conditioning takes an extremely string willed individual as well as the opportunity for self-doubt to present itself. At the time of the Heresy, marines like Nathanial Garro and Saul Tarvitz witnessed the betrayal of the warmaster and their brothers and broke their loyalty to their brethren and legions. Even though the religious fervor was nothing like it is in the 41st millennium, I still think it speaks to the fact that it takes an incredible moment of disillusionment to break the psycho-conditioning the Astartes endure.

I think it would really really take a lot to break a space marine...

No doubt.

Not impossible, however.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though perhaps a Space Marine who found his will seriously challenged would commit suicide rather than give in.

Or would that be considered a serious lack of faith in the Emperor?

Not sure on that one, for some reason it seems suicide is frowned on by the Astartes, though I've never read anything about the Ecclesiarchy condemning suicide like the catholic church. something to be researched for sure...

Kilkrazy wrote:No doubt.

Not impossible, however.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Though perhaps a Space Marine who found his will seriously challenged would commit suicide rather than give in.

Or would that be considered a serious lack of faith in the Emperor?

In Dead Sky Black Sun (One of the Ultamarines books) There is a part where Uriel, his sargeant and the renegades go through some weird gate/passage way thing and it starts convincing them to shoot themselves and kill themselves, at one point a marine reaches for a meltabomb. Apparently it depressed them so much they decided their lives were worthless and started to kill themselves...

yeah I remember that, it was inside the Iron Warriors fortress, though you have to remember, the majority of that force was made up of marines who had already foresworn their chapter oaths, thus they were already possessed of a weak constitution, might have made them easy targets for depression lol. also explains why Pasanius and Ventris fought it off.

Yeah but Mr. Ventris inspired the ohters as well they were also renegades so they would be very hard bitten and seen a lot although they did foreswear their oaths.

purplefood wrote:Yeah but Mr. Ventris inspired the ohters as well they were also renegades so they would be very hard bitten and seen a lot although they did foreswear their oaths.

yeah but in the end Ventris redeems himself, while the surviving renegades team up with Honsou, I'd say that points to some character flaws if you ask me.

Brother Heinrich wrote:

purplefood wrote:Yeah but Mr. Ventris inspired the ohters as well they were also renegades so they would be very hard bitten and seen a lot although they did foreswear their oaths.

yeah but in the end Ventris redeems himself, while the surviving renegades team up with Honsou, I'd say that points to some character flaws if you ask me.

You say flaws i say survival traits
There were only 3 at the end.
And some of the renegades redeem themselves by dying trying to take down Honsou etc etc heroic stuff

fair enough, this would all be solved so easily if they just had a self destruct option like Eversor assassins, "my lord we've captured an Astartes....wait, uh oh... BOOM."

Brother Heinrich wrote:fair enough, this would all be solved so easily if they just had a self destruct option like Eversor assassins, "my lord we've captured an Astartes....wait, uh oh... BOOM."

A nuclear self-destruct button... that would make using Death company like Battle Royale

purplefood wrote:

Brother Heinrich wrote:fair enough, this would all be solved so easily if they just had a self destruct option like Eversor assassins, "my lord we've captured an Astartes....wait, uh oh... BOOM."

A nuclear self-destruct button... that would make using Death company like Battle Royale

why not that codex is already ridiculous enough as is.

Brother Heinrich wrote:

purplefood wrote:

Brother Heinrich wrote:fair enough, this would all be solved so easily if they just had a self destruct option like Eversor assassins, "my lord we've captured an Astartes....wait, uh oh... BOOM."

A nuclear self-destruct button... that would make using Death company like Battle Royale

why not that codex is already ridiculous enough as is.

Seriously? You had to put "the BA codex is ridiculous" in there?

Anyways, On-Topic, the whole idea and psyche of the "average" astartes would likely involve taking as many of the enemy with them before dying if the battle is a lost cause. Maybe try to blow something big up while they're at it. Otherwise, you'd need something BIG to subdue a SM without killing him, but you need to be able to control that BIG thing, as if it doesn't have fine control, anything strong enough to subdue an astartes would likely just crush him. I really like the idea of a marine, no matter how out-numbered or out-gunned, stills figures "Heh, I wonder how many I can blow up before I get taken down? I'm guessing 436, any takers?"