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I would like to see it when it is done. What version of Evade Evade! will you use?

The most up to date. hopefuly it will still be useful since just about everything has photon grenades. I started it before you last post so that stuff is not in it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Tau Empire 2000pts experimental codex

Weapon descriptions are at the bottom.

HQ (220)

Commander Long shot or Shas’o F’roihi
He has a modified XV10 battlesuit.
Comes with twin linked railguns, twin linked charged ion blasters. Shield generator and a drone controller that has two shield drones (220 pts)

Troops (722)

Two identical fire warrior squads. They have 12 in each with photon grenades, bonding knife and two light plasma rifles. The rest have pulse rifles (166 each)
They have fishes with D-pods, multi trackers, 2 rail drones and 2 seeker missiles. (120 each)

Two identical pathfinder squads of 5, One Shas’ui. They all have photon grenades and marker carbines. (75 each)

Elites (780)

1 XV8 squad of 4 with plasma rifles, targeting arrays and smart missiles systems. Shas’vre has 2 shield drones. (300)

1 XV8 squad of 4 with plasma rifles, targeting arrays and fusion blasters. Shas’vre has 2 shield drones. (300)

XV10 battlesuit.
Has Twin-linked charged ion blasters, Vectored retro thrusters, targeting array, shield generator and 2 shield drones. (185)

Heavy support (265)

Hammerhead with railgun, smart missile system, targeting array, disruption pod, Target lock, multi tracker and 2 air defence missiles. (175)

Demurig artillery squad with an Ion cannon team and a railgun team. (90)

Grand total of 1997pts.

About the weapons

Railguns are R72”, S10, AP1, Heavy 1
Charged ion blasters are R30”, S6, AP3, Assault 3 or Heavy 5
Pulse rifles are R30” S5, AP5, Rapid fire (double tap at 15”)
Light plasma rifles are R24”, S6, AP2, Rapid fire
Rail rifles are R36”, S6, AP3, Heavy 1 sniper
Seeker missiles are R unlimited, S7, AP3, Heavy 1
Pulse carbines are R18”, S5, AP5, Assault 2
Plasma rifles are R24”, S6, AP2, Rapid fire, Rending
Smart missile systems are R24”, S5, AP5, Heavy 4
Fusion blasters are R12”, S8, AP1, Assault 1 Melta Lance
Ion cannons are R60”, S7, AP3, Heavy 3

The XV10 suit is my little bit of fun. You saw it before on the sp character I made though the normal ones don’t have as meny of the usr.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have finished the profile for the XV10 battlesuit

XV10 ‘Prohibiter’ battlesuit
Shas’vre
110pts

Walker
Bs..Ws...S....F......S.... R.....I....A
4....2.....5...12....11...10....2....2

Special rules:
Heavy jet pack
Deep strike
Acute senses
Evade Evade!

Wargear:
Smart missile system
Photon grenades
EMP grenades
Hard-wired drone controller
Shield generator

Twin linked plasma rifles may be exchanged for
• TL Charged ion blaster 25pts
• TL Ion cannon 25pts
• TL Railgun 40pts
• TL plasma rifle 10pts
• TL fusion blaster free

The battlesuit must take 1-2 other support system from
• Targeting array 10
• Vectored retro thrusters 10
• Blacksun filter 3
• Command and control node 5
• Positional relay 10
• Advanced stabilisation system 10

The battlesuit may take any of any number of these systems
• Ejection system 10
• Failsafe detonator 15
• Iridium armor 15
• Hard-wired blacksun filter 3
• Stimulant injector 10

The stats for the charged ion blaster are.

Range 30'
S 6
Ap 3
type heavy 5


I may have a solution for the problem with Evade Evade!
Have the squad ake a Ld test before the 2d6 move or 3d6 for units with jet packs. If they fail, they are put in the sweeping advance senario.
The 2d6/3d6 move is made so that the squad move in the same derection as the enemy is charging, the unit does not have to make difficult or dangerus terrain tests. If the unit would move into inpassable terran, they cease to move. If the move would take them off the board, they stop on the table edge.

There could be three diffrent types of missile.
1. Seeker missile
used as anit transport/light tank and anti meq. You know how it works. remove a markerlight and they shoot at the squad with BS5.
Range unlimited
S 8
Ap 3
Heavy 1, one shot

2. Barrage missiles
Used as anti horde/geq. They work the same as seekers but the hitting works diffrently. the template is placed over any member of the squad under fire. then is the drifting test. the missile counts as BS5 for this.
range unlimited
S 6
Ap 6
Heavy 1, large blast, one shot

3. Air defence missiles
They count as being in the 0-2 missile slot but they are not used on ground unit often. When an enemy unit deepstrikes, roll a d6 and on a 3+, the unit takes a deepstriking mishap with a -2 on the mishap chart.
Range unlimited
S 5
Ap 3
Heavy 1, one shot


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I have finished the stats for the Dermrig artillery squad

Infantry

WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv
2 4 3 3 2 2 2 7 4+

Squad consists of 1-3 units of Dermrig artillery teams
Each team costs 30pts and has an Ion cannon and 2 pulse pistols

Dermrig artillery teams may replace there Ion cannon can be replaced with one of the options below.

• Railgun (limited to one per squad) 40pts
• Any two missiles (Seeking, Air defence, Barrage) 5pts
• Charged ion blaster 5pts
• Twin-linked missile pod free

The Dermrig artillery squad may equip its members with any amount of wargear from this list.

• Photon grenades 1pt per model
• EMP grenades 3pts per model
• Blacksun filter 3pts


Its starting to feel a bit lonely here. were did everybody go?

Thanksgiving in the USA means that some people get very busy about now.

For the DS defence missile, is it just that it Kills the unit on a 3+? If so that is very powerful. why does it have a profile then? What if it was just part of the Rules for the Skyray instead of being a missile. For example:

A Skyray can be equipped with a Defensive Interceptor Missile System (DIMS). Any unit attempting to deep strike that the Skyray has line of sight to (After the Scatter roll) takes D6-1 S6 AP6 hits, as the interceptor missiles pummel the target on the way down.

I like the blast missile, but maybe AP5 for GEQ killing? AP6 is fine too. Sky ray has 6 missiles right? what about a super powerful missile that takes up 2 missile slots. Like S8 AP3 Ordinance Blast?

Fluff wise, I thought that Fire warrior squads always standard weapons, ie. they did not special weapon carriers. Not saying that should not be changed, but what if as an alternative, the unit has drones that carry the heavier weapons. You can have either a Plasma/Targeter drone, and a Fusion/Targeter drone?

I like the Demurig weapon team, but I though that the Demurig were actually good in assault? Maybe Ws3 instead of 2 to differentiate them from tau a bit more.

I think that the Evade Evade! stuff will just take play testing to work out, I am not sure exactly what would make it the best. Do you have a game with this list lined up?

Want to but exams are taking up everyone time round here. all my mates can get driven it to exams but i need to stay at school all day. very boring and no one to talk to except my text books.

I dont know anything about Dermig background so I made the stats based on the idea that 'they had taken up the tau phelosphy of cc is bad'

Maybe the DIMS or ADMs or what ever they could be called are overpowered. reduce the hit chance to 4+ and remove the penilty on the chart and they are ok but as you said, they could take damage after they have landed to represent the incoming fire. They have a profile because they can still be used to shoot at ground units, but you will find that anti air stuff is not so good when being used no ground tatgets.
The reason I had them as missiles was so they could be equiped to any tau tank under the 0-2 missile thing.

The missile could be Ap5 but dont want to be to op. one of my friends rants about this kind of thing. thinks its a sin to make stuff thats not cannon.

I think the charged ion blaster is overpowered.....
5 points on the heavy team for range 36" heavy 5 wounding MEQs on 2's and no save?

I would make it more points.

well, thats what its designed to kill. I was thinking about the strenth thu when i was designing it. The thing is, you wont see it on anything other than vechales. Go ahead and tell other tank guns that arent that strong

Predator Missiles

Current Traits of the Tau Seeker Missiles.

Expensive Cost 10 points per missile and 10 points per Markerlight upgrade

Expendable(One use)

2 Rolls to hit one with markerlight one with missile.

Currently have to be mounted to vehicles hull *maximum two per vehicle

Krak missile stats *Except unlimited range

Seeker missiles are expensive for the tau army and are expendable, which makes them not very attractive to take. Other armies with missile launchers use one person firing a krak missile. These armies are able to fire multiple krak missiles through out the game and especially good against multiple wound toughness 4 models. Take a marine tactical squad for example who gain a ML free when the reach 10 marines in the squad. They gain a heavy weapon capable of firing every round. The standard range of Missile Launchers in armies is 48". Seeker missiles are unlimited from their location, but are restricted by a markerlights 36" range.

I suggest Tau gain the ability to upgrade one model in a particular unit to gain access to the a Naval Strike Markerlight. This marker light would allow for the launch of a seeker missile from a low orbiting craft on the designated target. The in-game operation would remain similar to a normal seeker missile. The special markerlight would use the operators BS to hit. The seeker missile would resolve wounds as normal but vehicles it hits on the vehicles top armor value due to deployment from a aerial craft, which equals its side armor *like barrage weapons pg. 60 rulebook.

It strengths the fluff of Tau displaying their superiority and massive naval role in their army bringing air caste roles into the fight more.

In game grants the infantry the ability of heavy weapons with out carrying any heavy weapon, which is the tau way of war.

so you are saying that seekers should be changed to a troop weapon. Thats what it is but you can choose to get a missile or a + to a stat. Isent the old way better? what are you trying to say?

Ledabot wrote:so you are saying that seekers should be changed to a troop weapon. Thats what it is but you can choose to get a missile or a + to a stat. Isent the old way better? what are you trying to say?

I feel they need to change markerlights in general, but make the markerlight that only team leaders get more worth it. Right now their markerlights do not benefit their squad. So the big use for them is to launch a seeker missile. I just believe that the seeker missile should not cost 10 points a missile and have other restrictions, such as expendable and roll another die to hit with a BS of 5. It makes it a long process and not very attractive to take if you waste points for expendable krak missiles that you need to Hit twice once at 36" Heavy range and then again on a 2+, then you roll to wound. The Special markerlight would need to be taken at a price just for the team leader and possible require a squad size before it becomes available. I think it would work nicely in a static Tau gun line. The seeker missiles expandability would diminish with the fluff of them being launched from a low orbiting naval ship, which would be carrying a large payload of missiles.

I don't particularly mind this idea. I think it could be useful. Let's change Fire Warrior Team Leader markerlights thusly -

"One member of a Fire Warrior squad may be upgraded to a Shas'ui Team Leader for 10 points. He gains access to Infantry Wargear section, and may take items from there. He may also buy a Naval Bombardment Markerlight for 15 points."

15 is an arbitrary number. Based on the information I'm about to provide for naval bombardment, I like 15 points as the cost.

-Added to Infantry Wargear -

"Naval Bombardment Markerlight.

Fire Warrior Teams may be equipped with a special markerlight to designate high-priority targets that cannot be taken out with conventional pulse weaponry. With the Tau restriction on carrying heavy arms in infantry units. it has been decided that giving Fire Warriors that are either isolated, serving as advance units, or are operating without proper support a more effective chance of dealing with threats would be otherwise impossible to deal with. This weapon has the same statline as a markerlight (36" range, no str or ap, heavy 1), and has a built-in target lock. If the user hits with a markerlight target, the attack is resolved at BS 5, Str 8 Ap 3, Barrage, Large Blast."

Alternatively a regular seeker missile, maybe 10 points then.

EDIT: I suggested the blast because the Tau are severely lacking in good blast weaponry, and the BS should be high due to the targeting system (but not fool-proof). A restriction on the number of times this could be done would be nice (maybe 2 shots per markerlight in the army), and you shouldn't be able to use markerlights to improve the BS of the firer.

I like the idea of "Evade! Evade!", but as it is listed in your link, it is insanely overpowered. I think a Leadership test should be required, and even then, it shouldn't be a full fallback move. And you list that if they still get caught, they go in I1. Well, most of Tau is I2, so big whoopity-do. Everything goes before you anyway. I really don't think there is anyway to fix that rule.

Love it

Hey kk, good to see you still working on the fandex/ideas for the Tau. I had a version of what you call the evade, evade rule in my fandex. I balanced the rule by allowing only units that had remained stationary in the prior turn to be able to make use of the voluntary fallback in any direction move. Also, once the unit had made such move they were to be treated as a unit falling back inall ways and would have to roll to regroup.

Hope this helps

While i was playing today, my opponents deamon prince spent the whole game jumping between combats with his wings and lash and fleet and dumb stuff like that. there was no way to kill him inbetween combats because most of the combats finished in my turn with my squad dead and he would consoladate a good deal towards his next target, meaning their was no possable way to escape his wrath. The intire game was ruled by one prince because i could not kill him while he was in cc. Evade evade is not broken, it just makes the troops behave like any troops would do in real life and try not to get smacked by a giant monster.

Ledabot wrote:While i was playing today, my opponents deamon prince spent the whole game jumping between combats with his wings and lash and fleet and dumb stuff like that. there was no way to kill him inbetween combats because most of the combats finished in my turn with my squad dead and he would consoladate a good deal towards his next target, meaning their was no possable way to escape his wrath. The intire game was ruled by one prince because i could not kill him while he was in cc. Evade evade is not broken, it just makes the troops behave like any troops would do in real life and try not to get smacked by a giant monster.

hearing this i can see that they do need evade evade but if we could change the rules to say..... an order, they have to get the order from their shas'ui if the order passes then they get to move the 2d6 directly away from the enemy, and by order i mean a ld test so they would have to pass a ld test of an 8.

idk thats just personal thoughts becasue those 2d6 every time would be over kill, but they do need something better than what they have right now and thats my 2 cents

Denying the enemy the ability to assault is something that strikes me as bad game design.

I'd prefer deadlier shooting to some ability to dodge melee.

Jack

I agree that Tau should not be given a way "out" of melee. They should be given better tools to slow down armies to prevent melee, though.

All Tau need are improved pinning techniques that work even if the enemy is fearless. Or ways to restrict/slow enemy movement.

Slowing the enemy down is essentially similar to giving Tau weapons more or better shots, but less effective at actually efficiently breaking/destroying enemy units.

Given the choice I'd prefer more (effective) shots.

Jack

I have nothing wrong with Tau being more effective at actually destroying enemy units.

Problem, though, is that with enemies being able to get into melee from across the board by turn 2, if Tau are to be effective enough to kill those units before they reach Tau lines, then Tau should be able to kill melee units in 1-2 turns. That's no fun for anyone and too good, imo.

Slowing enemy movement and causing pinning would require strategy/target priority and complement Tau's movement superiority.

The majority of units in the game can break (and often completely destroy) a unit of firewarriors in a single game turn, why shouldn't firewarriors be able to manage the same over two shooting phases?

Too many units are either immune to pinning or not slowed reliable by difficult terrain.

I feel like charging units of firewarriors across open ground should be a bad idea for most units, and I hope any newer version of them achieve this.

Jack

The problem I have with tau is deep striking. The only ways I can see to beat them are:

1. Give tau a good assault unit.
2. Give tau an anti-assault special rule
3. Give tau a way to stop deep striking.

#3

Have units that can shoot at deepstriking units while they are deepstriking.

Or pay points for "air superiority"-traited Special Character, which gives an increased danger to all enemy deepstriking units as a deterrent.

Rather then getting to blast Deepstrikers for free (which we've seen no one likes with mystics) I'd prefer something like the jamming beacon from the LS Storm on a few units (perhaps a standard vehicle upgrade?); anything which deepstrikes within 6 or 12 inches must re-roll hits and scatters double the distance shown or some such.

Jack

Or a command vehicle with a piece of wargear that prohibits deepstriking within a certain radius (12"?)...

I've been thinking about pulse carbines for a while now. There just doesn't seem to be much reason to take them.

So why not really change them into something that makes you really thinking between choosing at 30' pulse rifle with the 15' rapid fire and a carbine?

Carbines traditionaly were designed for to be smaller than the rifles, meant for close quarters work and not be so bulky. Thus, an assault status. However, because they were smaller, they didn't have the accuracy or range of a full assault rifle. Hence, the 18' status. So far, we're good to go. But since Tau don't assault, no one ever chooses it. Pulse rifle is the standard.

Why not use them for real suppression work? Increase the rate of fire on them, decrease the power of it and give it a modified pinning rule that actually has a good chance of pinning something.

For instance


Pulse Carbine 18' S3 Assault 5

Example 1

Each Pulse Carbine in a unit causes a pinning test with each unsaved wound.

Example 2

Pinning: Each wound to an enemy caused by a Pulse Carbine in a unit reduces the leadership of that enemy unit by -1 for purposes of a pinning test.

Throw a limitation of 2-4 pulse carbines per unit and suddely, why would you need "Evade! Evade! Evade!"? Anything that comes within 18' is going to start taking a whole lot of pinning checks which could stop them in the dirt.


"But what about fearless units!?" I hear people cry. Well, you just increased your firepower a great deal by 2 carbines in your unit, it should help with those hoards that are mostly fearless.

Btw, not that I don't like 'Evade, Evade, Evade!'. I think it is snazzy. I just would like to see the carbine get a workout.

Pulse Carbine 18' S5 AP5 Assault 2

Every wound (unsaved or saved) on a unit caused by a Pulse Carbine lowers that unit's assault range by 1'. If a unit's assault range is reduced to 0, that unit can not assault the next turn.

OooooOO I like that one too.

Jackmojo wrote:Denying the enemy the ability to assault is something that strikes me as bad game design.

I'd prefer deadlier shooting to some ability to dodge melee.

Jack

It depends on what you want to happen in the game.

At the moment the rules say whenever an enemy contacts one of your FW, all the rest rush in to help fight in melee, although they can't. This is the primary reason the FW are rubbish.

IMO it's bad game design to create an army, the point of which is that they don't engage in melee, then force them to engage in melee, and to make melee the most decisive part of the game.

Evade! Evade! works as a special rule that is only available to Tau, so no other army can evade from melee. This preserves the Tau's difference to everyone else. It doesn't give them overpowered shooting (though there are other places in the codex where I propose improved shooting) but it does stop any assault army from getting an automatic win against Tau. It forces the assault player to think a bit and use tactics to trap the Tau where he can assault them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You need to keep in mind that Tau are absolutely the worst army in the game at melee, and they aren't the best at shooting, yet all other armies which rely on assault also have some effective shooting too.

I will first admit, being rather new to 40k in general. Tau being the first army I had picked up, and though it is difficult, I do enjoy the feel of how they play. Though it seams like there is only 1 way to play them if you want to win.

When I was reading the codex there was the ideas of the different caste, and I enjoyed the structure to it. I think if they were to incorporate it somehow, that would be kinda fun, and maybe give it some different play style.

Water Caste are referred to as the diplomats and could represent that with bonuses
to other races.

Ethereal (Water Caste)
Points - 150
-All Kroot and Vespid Units taken receive an additional +2 leadership (max 10)
-Kroot receive Furious Charge
-Vespid may replace there Neutron Blaster with a Flamer/Fusion Blaster/Burst cannon
-The Ethereal may take a guard of 2 Krootox Riders

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Known typically as the transports of the Tau, Big Ships and Airspace combat. Support from
above would be the idea.

Ethereal (Air Caste)
Points - 150
-May Deapstrike Tanks and Broadsides
-Counts has having an extra 10 Seeker missiles
-Maybe given an Ordanance weapon of some sort

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Warriors, and Fighters of the Tau.

Ethereal (Fire Caste)
Points - 150
-Firewarriors and Battlesuits are given an additional 1BS
-"Thunder hammer" rules for the staff

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Earth Caste are known as the builders, this could be shown with upgrades
and tougher vehicles

Ethereal (Earth Caste)
Points - 150
-Advanced Link Node - Stealth Suits Count as a Troop Choice
-All Vehicles receive a +1 armor to all sides
-Can repair a Wrecked or below status on a roll of 4+

Of course you would only be allowed one Ethereal leader per army, and all effects would last only as long
as the Ethereal remains in play.