Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I would think a more acurate upgrade would just to give it the lance special rule reflecting it really really good penatrating ability.

@Formosa & Jordanis

I strongly disagree with both of the proposed railgun ideas for the following reasons:

1) The drawing a line rule would limit the Railguns range and would reduce its ability for the coordinated pinpoint accuracy that is the basis of the Tau way of war. The profile as suggested would make it very difficult to get clean shots with no cover save on distant tanks and would make early game targeted shots against your opponents backfield a lot harder. Your opponents would layer his forces to where your shot would travel through several infantry units in cover, thus making the shot go through several coversaves before reaching its intended target. With the shot stopping on the first successful coversave.

2)As for the ordinance. IMO, Tau should never get ordinance weapons as to the fact that they are the tools of attrition warfare and by design do long term damage to the enviroment that they are planning to quickly colonize/or return to working. Think of the Tau as the type to use neutron weapons that kill life but does not leave radio-active fallout or destroys infrastructure.

Now I could see the railgun as the ultimate anti-tank weapon that on any AP roll of 4+ two d6 are rolled on the vehicle damage table. Maybe add that the best inv save able to be taken against the railguns S10 AP1 shot is a 5+. Make the submunition shot S6 AP3 and that would be perfect imo.

Edit: addressed individuals

As a budding Tau player. I've only 5 games under my belt as the Tau, and I've seen a few posts asking to buff markerlights. As they are at Heavy 36" These things are devastating my opponents fear them like the plague. Making them assault weapons would indeed put them over the top.

@Thaylan- I agree that range 36" assault 1 markerlights would be op but if the range was reduced to 18" it would be ok.

My personal prefference is that markerlights become range 24" rapidfire.

focusedfire wrote:@Thaylan- I agree that range 36" assault 1 markerlights would be op but if the range was reduced to 18" it would be ok.

My personal prefference is that markerlights become range 24" rapidfire.

On the last pg, someone said that a heavy1 36" or assult 2 18" that would not be so op. taking in your comment, assult 2 12" and heavy 1 36" would be fine.

As I said giving the railgun lance would be a good upgrade that would not be op.

Railguns already kill vehicles left and right w/ little regard for armor facing. Lance would make it ridiculous. As for Markerlights. I wouldn't mind the dual profile. But I find that having a 36" range is the most important part. 18" will ensure that bikes, jetbikes, and cavalry are going to kill me if the markerlgihts don't spell their death.

focusedfire wrote:@Formosa & Jordanis

I strongly disagree with both of the proposed railgun ideas for the following reasons:

1) The drawing a line rule would limit the Railguns range and would reduce its ability for the coordinated pinpoint accuracy that is the basis of the Tau way of war. The profile as suggested would make it very difficult to get clean shots with no cover save on distant tanks and would make early game targeted shots against your opponents backfield a lot harder. Your opponents would layer his forces to where your shot would travel through several infantry units in cover, thus making the shot go through several coversaves before reaching its intended target. With the shot stopping on the first successful coversave.

2)As for the ordinance. IMO, Tau should never get ordinance weapons as to the fact that they are the tools of attrition warfare and by design do long term damage to the enviroment that they are planning to quickly colonize/or return to working. Think of the Tau as the type to use neutron weapons that kill life but does not leave radio-active fallout or destroys infrastructure.

Now I could see the railgun as the ultimate anti-tank weapon that on any AP roll of 4+ two d6 are rolled on the vehicle damage table. Maybe add that the best inv save able to be taken against the railguns S10 AP1 shot is a 5+. Make the submunition shot S6 AP3 and that would be perfect imo.

Edit: addressed individuals

Dude re-read what i posted, i dont mind that you dont like it, like i said its a crazy idea.

1: As to the re-read "IGNORES Cover Armour and invunerable saves" and cannot be used to snipe, so this entire argument is based of an inccorect assumption

2: he didnt mean "Ord, large blast" he just meant "Ord 1" so it uses 2 dice and picks the highest, this is a very good idea i think and would pretty much mean that the Railgun didnt actually need any other rules for poping tanks.

Ledabot wrote:

As I said giving the railgun lance would be a good upgrade that would not be op.

It would be OP, but I think the Tau could use it.


I like the idea of the flamer going to a heavy flamer, but I think the points should be slightly more. Possibly 8/12, because 6 points of a TL Heavy Flamer is ultimate cheese.

Submunissions looks good, it would be ideal against meqs, but if it was ap3 it would get rid of the purpose of ion-heads, so if you made it ap3 I would make the Ion-Cannon free.

I think the railgun should also cause ID, it would give a nice edge against nid-zilla, which is currently fairly hard to play against.


Also, on a side note, the formatting hurts my eyes, and it is kind of hard to read the current article.

Formosa wrote:

focusedfire wrote:@Formosa & Jordanis

I strongly disagree with both of the proposed railgun ideas for the following reasons:

1) The drawing a line rule would limit the Railguns range and would reduce its ability for the coordinated pinpoint accuracy that is the basis of the Tau way of war. The profile as suggested would make it very difficult to get clean shots with no cover save on distant tanks and would make early game targeted shots against your opponents backfield a lot harder. Your opponents would layer his forces to where your shot would travel through several infantry units in cover, thus making the shot go through several coversaves before reaching its intended target. With the shot stopping on the first successful coversave.

2)As for the ordinance. IMO, Tau should never get ordinance weapons as to the fact that they are the tools of attrition warfare and by design do long term damage to the enviroment that they are planning to quickly colonize/or return to working. Think of the Tau as the type to use neutron weapons that kill life but does not leave radio-active fallout or destroys infrastructure.

Now I could see the railgun as the ultimate anti-tank weapon that on any AP roll of 4+ two d6 are rolled on the vehicle damage table. Maybe add that the best inv save able to be taken against the railguns S10 AP1 shot is a 5+. Make the submunition shot S6 AP3 and that would be perfect imo.

Edit: addressed individuals

Dude re-read what i posted, i dont mind that you dont like it, like i said its a crazy idea.

1: As to the re-read "IGNORES Cover Armour and invunerable saves" and cannot be used to snipe, so this entire argument is based of an inccorect assumption

2: he didnt mean "Ord, large blast" he just meant "Ord 1" so it uses 2 dice and picks the highest, this is a very good idea i think and would pretty much mean that the Railgun didnt actually need any other rules for poping tanks.

1) Yes I missed the coversave exception but the concept is still valid. A layered defense would make it more likely that you roll a "1" to wound, before the shot gets to the primary target. Also, there is something counter intuitive to the concept of a fail to wound on an infantry model suddenly stopping a railgun round in its tracks.


2) You might want re-read what Jordanis posted. He talks about scatter which is different than just a second d6 rolled and take the highest.

I'll let you guys get back to the discussion.

I've always had an idea when Shas'o and Shas'el that are equipped with either a Plasma Rifle or Fusion Blaster count their attacks in CC as power weapons, or a slightly more complected rule where they can replace 2 attacks to count as a PW at S6 if equipped with a PR or 1 attack as a PW at S8 if equipped with a FB. This of course representing after years of training being skilled enough to fire their weapons in CC. I wouldn't think this would be too OP and it's nice not being tar-pitted against SM with your awesome commander. Also maybe rules for the other battle suit weapons? I only mentioned PR and FB since they ignore all armor saves when firring.

ObiFett wrote:

Perkustin wrote:Cool updates. Instead of 'evade evade' which i am afraid i am not a fan of. I just came up with....
'Photon Flash': Tau fire warriors and Pathfinders have quickly learned that the hostile forces beyond the Sept are barbaric and well versed in hand to hand combat. Concordently they have adopted new tactics to adapt. Deploying focused magnesium photon emitters just before assault has thus far proved highly effective at blunting many enemy assaults.
When assaulted by an enemy unit each tau may take a free 'shot' at their ballistic skill (can be augmented by gadgets etc..) for every successful 'hit', one of the assaulting models loses an Attack on the turn they charged (to a minimum of 1 per model).

I'm guessing you don't play Tau.

The above would actually be worse for the Tau army. Why? Because all it would do is ensure our units don't die the turn they are assaulted, but they will most definitely die during our assault phase. Which means our army doesn't get to shoot at the unit during our turn and the enemy can charge safely again during his. This is bad.

Tau need a way to either:

1) Slow down enemies from getting into CC or
2) Escape CC once initiated or
3) Punish CC enemies (with casualties) for getting into CC with Tau units or
4) Be more shooty and kill CC units before they can get close.

We do not need a way to be better in CC.

What about allowing Tau to shoot enemies locked in close combat if that enemy is targeted by a markerdrone?

That, is a good idea Shenra.

Devilfish becoming fast vehicles would help the "get out of CC" thing.

It would also be nice if fire warriors could get a failsafe detonator.

but markerlight count as shooting weapons so you couldent fire them at enemys in cc anyway.

... a slight problem

Okay, markerlights can shoot into combat, and they can make other units shoot into combat!

That would be fun. bit iffy that ever happening though.

I'm liking all the suggestions you make in the article. I thought of making a specialized CC suit to solve the CC problem, but the 'Evade!' rule you devised works much better.

More Tau lore is definitely needed, Tau are very different to all the other forces in the game and I would like for the lore to reflect that. I also quite like your ideas for Special Character tank commanders, and BS 4 on Crisis suits is sorely needed.

I think that the Tau don't really have enough heavy weapons available to them in forms other than vehicles and suits, so I suggest having a 'Heavy Fire Warrior Team' as a troops choice. They would cost a bit more than normal fire warriors but will have a lot more options. I'm not sure whether it should work like the IG heavy weapons team or just a Tau Devastator Squad. I would prefer a heavy weapons team as most of their heavy weapons would be too large for a fire warrior to carry.

its nice to see all the lively threads about the Tau, instead of the usual "Tau can't compete so they suck! get rid of them " post I see alot of the time.

And just a few ideas off the top of my head...

Markerlights should never be rapid fire, since it is a laser designator for all intents and purposes, and I don't see a rapid fire setting for something that would need to aquire a lock on.
Keep the 36" range, heck I would love to see something like an increase to 48" myself.
Also let markerlights ignore cover saves ( unless they already do, in which case I have been cheating myself ) as the Tau would have figured out how to use a IR/UV beam or some other invisible spectrum light , since there is no projectile and the operator is merely scanning with the markersystem until he can lock on a target, it would seem cover would not be a factor anymore than armor would be, but I guess the cover save could reflect moving foliage or the target shifting and obscuring the lock momentairly. But just my opinion on this.

Railguns....my favorite
They rock already, and one of the few things tau have that nobody jokes about ( at least where we can see them. ), the only thing I could possibly see as a potential change is perhaps allow a Railgun that would normaly cause ID on a target that has eternal warrior, instead of only causing 1 wound would instead inflict 1d3 , now that would put some fear into those uber IC out in the open !

Tau support Squad:
Maybe a squad simular to the drone sniper squad, where you have a tau with a built in drone controller and 2 special heavy weapon drones, perhaps make the squad 3 tau and 3-6 hev drones, with each drone able to have a different loadout, it would use current fluff and current model designs ( from forgeworld ) also would make for some much needed mid level firesupport.
Just off the top of my head.

hmmm I will keep thinking on more

I have begun work on a experimental Tau artillery system, that we plan to play test over the weekend to see how it works. gotta love the little blue dudes

Marker Lights are not affected by cover saves.

Cover saves are taken against wounds inflicted. Marker lights do not inflict wounds, therefore all cover saves do not work against them.

Not sure if anyone has posted something like this (not read every single post!) but something that disrupts enemy deepstrikers?

Maybe like a drone or piece of wargear that emits an EMP charge or simply shuts down the nav system aboard a drop pod etc.

With all the stupid amount of armies that can get turn 1/2 assaults and/or deepstrike with NO FEAR at all of going astray or even having a mishap we really need something to scare players from just going "Oh, Deepstrike this and that right next to you with no hesitation, game = won"

Maybe something along the lines of:

"Any unit that deepstrikes within 12" of any unit carrying the emitter must scatter 2D6 DIRECTLY AWAY from the unit"

Or - "Unit counts as being in dangerous terrain upon their next assault move"

Deepstriking units have little to fear these days, especially BA (And they are fast enough as it is).

We need a big counter to this.

Castling with a Kroot perimeter prevents drop-podding into any useful melee.

Tau players don't want an "I Win" card, they just want a fair set of rules that compensates for the obvious weaknesses of the codex.

I really like the Evade Evade Special rule, it's a very nice touch that shows the mobility of the Tau. It's something I'd really like to see more in the Tau, but not as much as the Eldar.

The idea of in cooperating Gue'vesa was another really good Idea, I absolutely love it, that's probably because I recently started a Gue'vesa themed Guard army X3.

Kilkrazy wrote:Castling with a Kroot perimeter prevents drop-podding into any useful melee.

Tau players don't want an "I Win" card, they just want a fair set of rules that compensates for the obvious weaknesses of the codex.

Having to take a specific unit (and one that not all Tau players take, albeit I do, I love Kroot) shouldn't be necessary to help us offset the mad drop pod rules that have cropped up lately. A piece of wargear that could be fitted to maybe the HQ only?

Apparently GK will be getting an upgrade that makes any unit Deepstriking within 12" Auto Mishap (Not 100% but seen it on the rumours and has cropped up a lot) and this for an army that will be devastating in CC!!!

It wouldn't be an "I Win" card either. It would simply make the deep strikers think twice before attempting such an easy to pull off tactic.

That solution is the same thing -- a specific unit with a special piece of wargear.

If GK get an item that causes deep striking to mishap, I don't see why Tau shouldn't have one too.

KK, I have a question about your codex. I believe you say Hammerheads have access to all the drones, correct? What would you do with shield drones attached to the hammerhead?

Three options:

1. Nothing. People probably wouldn't bother to take shield drones on vehicles if this were the case. It's easier to allow them to do something pointless than to write more rules to stop them.

2. Grants a 4+ save. (Deldar have got invulnerables for vehicles now, so there is precedent.)

3. Maybe drones can be dismounted and handed over to other units.

Terminators deep strike via teleport
Some Tyranids DS via tunneling
Chaos Daemons warp DS

How would a missile stop any of those?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Formosa wrote:

focusedfire wrote:@Formosa & Jordanis

I strongly disagree with both of the proposed railgun ideas for the following reasons:

1) The drawing a line rule would limit the Railguns range and would reduce its ability for the coordinated pinpoint accuracy that is the basis of the Tau way of war. The profile as suggested would make it very difficult to get clean shots with no cover save on distant tanks and would make early game targeted shots against your opponents backfield a lot harder. Your opponents would layer his forces to where your shot would travel through several infantry units in cover, thus making the shot go through several coversaves before reaching its intended target. With the shot stopping on the first successful coversave.

2)As for the ordinance. IMO, Tau should never get ordinance weapons as to the fact that they are the tools of attrition warfare and by design do long term damage to the enviroment that they are planning to quickly colonize/or return to working. Think of the Tau as the type to use neutron weapons that kill life but does not leave radio-active fallout or destroys infrastructure.

Now I could see the railgun as the ultimate anti-tank weapon that on any AP roll of 4+ two d6 are rolled on the vehicle damage table. Maybe add that the best inv save able to be taken against the railguns S10 AP1 shot is a 5+. Make the submunition shot S6 AP3 and that would be perfect imo.

Edit: addressed individuals

Dude re-read what i posted, i dont mind that you dont like it, like i said its a crazy idea.

1: As to the re-read "IGNORES Cover Armour and invunerable saves" and cannot be used to snipe, so this entire argument is based of an inccorect assumption

2: he didnt mean "Ord, large blast" he just meant "Ord 1" so it uses 2 dice and picks the highest, this is a very good idea i think and would pretty much mean that the Railgun didnt actually need any other rules for poping tanks.

That's 4th Ed. now Ordnance rerolls failed pen.

Tau "heavy fire warriors" sounds really cool. my friend plays Tau, and one of his guys has a plasma rifle that he can fire if he didn't move.
I think that could be expanded on.

Crisis CC suit - maybe modeled after Farsight.

Melta bomb launcher - an upgrade fore firs warriors, allows them to make a melta bomb attack against a vehicle within something like 6-12 inches
OR
at up to 36 inches, small blast template, full scatter (no BS reduction) for say 15-25 points

By rules.

GW can rationalise nearly anything.

"The missile is fitted with a powerful sonic discharger which transmits discordant frequencies that confuse tunneling creatures. "

A Geller Field prevents Daemon incursion.

Some fluffy handwavium.

Etc.

True

I liked a lot of your additions especially the drones.
I Don't know if these were already said so sorry if these are redundant but these are the things i have thought would be nice as a tau player. (also sorry if they are dumb haha)

1. Pulse carbines changed to a dual Stat of 30" assault 1/ 15" assault 2.

2. (i know this'n has been said before but) A unit or ability that would make deep-strikers always scatter at least 1d6.

3. CC battlesuits and enhanced CC abilities for farsight enclaves.

4. Special rules:
--a. Blind To The Warp: Psychic powers that have no damaging effects have no effect on units with this special rule (so things like paroxysm)(idk if this wud be OP but i thought it would reflect
the fluff nicely).
--b. Auxiliaries are Auxiliaries: Auxiliaries are restrained to one unit per one tau unit.
--c. Might be dumb and/or OP but a Special Rule "Duck" where instead of Punching back a squad locked in combat may try and get out of the way while another unit in [Some Range] may fire at
the assaulting unit with I1. any to hits of 1 would hit your own men. The getting out of the way wouldn't get you out of combat i just mean they be trying to lay down and the such.

5. More Auxiliaries something like:
--a. gue'vasa troop choice similar to IG Infantry Platoons but w/out heavy weps and commisars (maybe more tau like equivalents though)(a gue'vasa tank with ion canon-y things would be
awesome)
--b. Gue'vasa Jet pack fast attack squad with tank killin' capabilities and fast attack-y stuff.
--c. Master Shaper HQ choice, Knarloc and some units from the kroot mercs 'dex.
--d. Tarrelians as heavy support mainly meelee choice.
--e. more Vespid flexibility like larvae fast attack or Vespid outcast queen heavy support living tank thing.. idk i don't really like or know much about vespid.

6. Ethereals not as useless
--a. would be cool if they had an inquisitor lord like ability of: anything that deepstrikes within [some range] of him can be appended a free shooting from one of your units.
--b. a commisar "Bring it Down!" like ability but just gives selected unit Twin-Linking action or +1BS on any targeted unit.

7. Pathfinders do not need a Devilfish.

8. XV9's (Fast Attack Battlesuits FTW!) along with A Flechette discharger upgrade for Battlesuits (like shas'O'Rhmyr)

Drone rules -

Drones are no kill point units and can be detached from mother unit.
A tau unit can always chose to fall back based on a Ld test and may forfeit it's drones to the combat. This allows drones to serve the greater good but it also only allows it once for a unit. (e.g. A unit of 10 warriors +2 drones is charged by 10 berzerkers. The Tau choses to fall back, makes it's leadership test and breaks leaving the two drones behind to die. Meanwhile the 10 warriors can regroup and fight on.