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wait- how many points is a stormraven?
coz' then we could minus the lascannon turret down to a autocannon turret (-35), then minus extra AV (how ever many points it is), minus the whole "flyer" thing, take away "fast", take away deepstrike, and swap the ability to carry dreads for the ability to carry 4 more 25mm bases. IIRC, it has an assault ramp (like the uber-rhino), a turret (like the uber-rhino), can carry 2 units (like the uber-rhino), can carry jump infrantry (like the uber-rhino).

shrike wrote:wait- how many points is a stormraven?
coz' then we could minus the lascannon turret down to a autocannon turret (-35), then minus extra AV (how ever many points it is), minus the whole "flyer" thing, take away "fast", take away deepstrike, and swap the ability to carry dreads for the ability to carry 4 more 25mm bases. IIRC, it has an assault ramp (like the uber-rhino), a turret (like the uber-rhino), can carry 2 units (like the uber-rhino), can carry jump infrantry (like the uber-rhino).

A storm raven is 200 points base. Though a TL lascannon is hardly worth 35 points more than a TL autocannon, 25 points at the absolute most. Losing Fast, well the BA codex prices fast at 15 points, losing skimmer status (and vicariously DS) and becoming a regular vehicle (tank), I'm unsure as to what to price that at, though 10 or 15 points seems a good place to start. 12/12/12 becoming 12/11/11, I'd take 10 points off for that. If you're not keeping the ceramite plating I'd take 10 more points off for that. Allowing two units still, with a 16 model maximum for losing the dread space, that's fair imho. Though jump infantry should still take up two slots.

So conservatively we come to 130 points so far.

You have extra armor on your vehicle, but no PotMS, so we can call that one a push even if it's not completely equal. No heavy bolter, but two storm bolters, call that one a push again. The biggest remaining difference is the loss of the one shot missiles. That one's a tough call, HK missiles are typically 10 points, but there's a good reason they're rarely seen. I'd say take 20 points off conservatively for the loss of the missiles.

So 110 in total, admittedly it loses Skies of Blood too, but no one would ever pay points for that ability. This is all still assuming this remains a heavy support choice of course. So try it out in some games, 110 points in HS, and get some opinions. If it seems too expensive after that then bring it down to 100 again.

P.S.: Can this thing carry terminators? I missed that if it was mentioned.

thanks for the input- it cannot carry termies.
so the current rules stand as this:
(still free to tweak)

125pts
AV 12/11/11
assault ramp, 4 side ramps
2 SB
TL AC
Cap.- 16 models (jump infrantry count as 2), can carry multiple units.
slot- heavy support seems a bit OTT, as it only has 1 non-defensive weapon, and that's only an AC. It has the firepower of a RB and rhino, so how about fast attack, and make it a fast vehicle?
so that's as neconilis said, but adding 15pts for the "fast" rule, to make it FA.

So when do we get to see a picture of it?

The problem with that is that the Fast Attack FOC is one of the least internally competitive ones in the SM codex, so putting it there makes it far easier to make room for it. I certainly understand why you'd want it there, but if it's too easy of a choice then it's probably the wrong decision.

I'd stick with HS, simply because it's a heavier troop transport that's multi-role and has it's own gimmicks, but of course isn't a LR yet. It's a LR alternative in a lot of ways though, and I feel that it should compete with it in terms of slots.

That's not to say you couldn't find a place for it in FA, but I'd adjust the price somewhat for that luxury. I'd add in 10 or 15 points just to put it into the FA slot choice. Though admittedly, you likely want this thing mostly for assault squads (I would think?) which are FA choices for codex SM. So maybe it would be fair without a point boost, though I'd play it safe at first and leave the final decision down to actual playtesting. Though I have to admit I'm leaning more towards no increase now, just make sure to give it an aptly FA sounding name when you get done with the assault rhino ;-)

As for making it a fast vehicle, that's more of a BA trope to me and I don't think it fits particularly well on this vehicle either. I see this thing more as big hulking thing with a lot of internal space allowing it to do what it does, and it certainly doesn't scream, 'I move faster than any other codex SM vehicle', to me. Still, that being said, giving it a 5 or 10 point dozer blade would be fair I feel, also, allow it to upgrade to a siege shield for 5 or 10 more points as well. That way it has the feeling of mobility through some game effect making it unlikely to get stuck, and it also keeps itself from defying the internal consistency of the codex by not racing far ahead of every other tracked vehicle while being at least twice their size. It also gives it a role no other assault vehicle can play, one that can (fairly safely) unload directly into terrain. (Which is also the reason I suggest that maybe the dozer blade and siege shield should cost a bit more than standard, as two units assaulting directly into an entrenched enemy is nothing to overlook.)

Hopefully that helps some. Also, when you get around to testing this thing out on the table, make sure to play against it as well, with as many other opponents as you can muster, that tends to be the best way to gauge the power of a new rule, when you're the one has to be on the receiving end of it.

Neconilis wrote:I'd stick with HS

give it an aptly FA sounding name when you get done with the assault rhino ;-)

doesn't scream, 'I move faster than any other codex SM vehicle', to me.

dozer blade

siege shield

that tends to be the best way to gauge the power of a new rule, when you're the one has to be on the receiving end of it.

I will play against it.
wouldn't the dozer blade/siege shield be in the way of the assault ramp?
to me, it doesn't really shout "HS!"- what is, in effect, a rhino/razorback hybrid. i would say it's a dedicated transport, but if it can carry 2 units...
the real options are:
HS (already mentioned)
FA
DS
can't really do dedicated transport, as what unit would take it? 2 units are transported...
so FA's the only one left.
anyone got an idea for the name?

heavy assault rhino/fast assault rhino?

meh. needs to be more catchy.

Hippopotamus Carrier? Rhinoceros APC?

Testudo Carrier?

Probably want it to be some kind of an animal that is tough, or large.

"The superhuman astartes ride to battle in fearsomely powerful hippopotamus carriers."

Rhino APC is basically what a rhino is- an armoured personnel carrier.
hmm. It's basically a giant rhino...hmm...

okay guys- i am going to my FLGS to see what the manager thinks of it.

Ursus Troop Carrier has a nice sound to it.


(Latin for Bear, seems to fit least imo)

This sounds pretty cool, just wondering, would it have the fire port on the top like the rhino?

no. The way I've modelled it, Plasicard is covering the roof hatch. Gonna buy the FW RG etched brass.
Ursus sounds cool. "The ursus assault rhino"?
And where should I mount the TL AC?

"Ursus Assault Tank"

how about one AC on each side of the front of the rhino, but still count as TL.

Flanking AC both faced inward slightly, easy to model and gets the job done, just be sure to make it known its TL, and not two seperate ACs.

okay. edited.

Glad to be of assistance ^^ I am quite excited to see the final results.


Also, any chance of a chaos equvilent, or must I attempt to fail and invent one with my limited imagination

I would post pics, but as afore-mentioned, my laptop cannot "copy image location".
for CSM ones? Just use the same rules.
maybe a heavy flamer instead of AC?

I was just wondering that, most likely make it the DT that Khorne Berserkers desperately needed. Im a fan of land raiders as much as the next guy but they can be too expensive in some lists and this just takes the ticket.

so beserkers can't take rhinos? I was playing a guy who had 20 beserkers in 2 rhinos...killed me in 4 turns as I had gunline marines...I call shenanigans!

No Zerkers CAN take rhinos, but the lack of assault ramps really negates their effective ability. It's always a case with me 'Zerkers jump out, they take several hundred rounds to the face, they die.'

With this, its a case of furious charging out of a DT, which I assume can also take daemonic possession to shrug off stunned and shaken.

Hmm... I think if I decide to use a Chaos version, I may have to nerf it slightly :p on the other hand, All zerker lists can become a whole lot more effective.

ah. Since they were MEQ, this is what happened:
Devs. kill a squad before dying to massed fire.
Scouts do sod all.
TH/SS termies kill the DP and a squad, but are too far away to do anything else.
tac. squad does sod all.
v.vets DS and die.
LR gets killed by oblit fire, but manages to kill a squad.