Starting Black Templar style army

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**my iron lung**

You can take the EC as your only HQ check the BT faq

**Nettik189**

tedurur wrote: However, Nettik you should read the forum rules a bit more clearly, you are not allowed to post indicicual costs. You are allowed to post costs for a full squad with upgrades ect but you are not allowed to post the cost of the squad and then sepparate costs for the upgrades.

Yes that is true im not suppose to do individual points per upgrade thats just the way i have it on my ipad and it was a bit late. Sorry for not deleting each individual point cost.

Corennus wrote:NETTIK YOU CAN'T TAKE AN EMP'S CHAMPION ON HIS OWN AS HQ!!!!!!

Not reli that polite would you say? and so you can have a bit more informantion on an army i have been playing since 2000 (hehe thats my army list point too lol) im a lil trained up on them
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1490287a_FAQ_BlackTemplars_2009.pdf
Enjoy

**Corennus**

only going from codex it seems you can't. although having checked the page ok it's canon that you now can.

Another incident of a Codex not being clear enough on what it actually means.

**MarshalKervhart**

Corennus wrote:Well i've finally settled on the list i'm taking.
And it's a pretty nasty list I think (this is the list i'll be making so yes pick holes but i'm still going to make it)

HQ
Knight Chaplain Heraldus
Master Of Sanctity
Terminator Armour
Crozius Arcanum & Chainsword
Melta Bombs
141

The Emperor’s Knight Mardus
Vow: Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch
110

ELITES

Terminator Assault Squad Orphus (5 man)
X 3 LCs x 2 TH/SS
Furious Charge
215
DT: Land Raider Crusader w/ Smoke Launchers & Dozer Blade
275

TROOPS

Crusader Squad (5 man)
Initiates x 5
Flamer
Crusader Seal
88
DT: Rhino w/ extra armour & Smoke Launchers &Dozer Blade
63

Crusader Squad (5 man)
Initiates x 5
Flamer
Crusader Seal
88
DT: Rhino w/ extra armour &Smoke Launchers & Dozer Blade
63

Crusader Squad (5 man)
Initiates x 5
Flamer
Crusader Seal
88
DT: Rhino w/ extra armour & Smoke Launchers & Dozer Blade
63

FAST ATTACK

Landspeeder Typhoon
Multi-Melta

85

Landspeeder Typhoon
Multi-Melta
85

HEAVY SUPPORT
Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons
Smoke Launchers
128

Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons
Smoke Launchers
128

Predator Destructor
Lascannon Sponsons
Smoke Launchers
128

1748

Wargear check:

Crozius Arcanum (Str 5 Initiative 6 Power Weapon with Furious Charge)
Chainsword (Str 5 Initiative 6 CC weapon)
The Black Sword (Str 7 Initiative 6 power weapon with Furious Charge)
X 3 Lightning Claws (Str 5 Initiative 5 Power Weapons with Furious Charge)
X 2 Thunder Hammers (Str 9 Initiative 1 Power Weapons with Furious Charge)
X 12 Bolters (Str 4 AP 5 Rapid Fire)
X 3 Flamers (Str 4 AP 5 Template. Ignores Cover)
X 3 Storm Bolters (Str 4 AP 5 24” range)
X 2 Typhoon Missile Launchers (Str 4/8 AP 6/3 Blast/krak 48”)
X 3 Multi-Melta (Str 8 AP 1 Melta 24”)
X 2 Hurricane Bolters (Str 4 AP 5 T-L Rapid Fire)
X 3 Autocannons (Str 7 AP 4 48” Heavy 2)
X 6 Lascannons (Str 9 AP 2 48”)

TOTAL CC WEAPONS: 8
TOTAL 24” GUNS: 20
TOTAL TEMPLATE GUNS: 3
TOTAL 48” GUNS: 11

Chaplain and Emperor's Champion with terminators =

On the charge out of land raider -
Chaplain - 3 base. 1 CC bonus. 1 charging. at str 6
Emp Champion - 2 base. 1 charging bonus. at str 7
x 3 LC Terminators. 6 base. 3 CC bonus. 3 charging at str 5
x 3 TH/SS Terminators. 4 base. 2 charging. at Str 9

Total attacks: 26 power weapon attacks at minimum of Str 5! 20 of them at Initiative 5 or higher!

Well.....since no-one else is mentioning it, imma pick some holes in your list:

Chaplain:Termy armour means no meltabombs and no chainsword. He's only Str5, but Int6(when you're calculating the total attacks)

Emperor's Champion:As was pointed out earlier, the EC is 2 on profile, +1 for having 2CCWs(Sword+Pistol), and +1 on the charge.

Crusader Squads:"ALL Initiates in the squad may take Crusader Seals at a cost of 2pts per model." You can't pick and choose here, either they all grab up seals at 2 points an Initiate or the squad goes with-out. If you could have a single model take seals it would state "Any Initiate in the squad may take...", but it doesn't.

People have allready corrected the EC 'gaining' FC and the missiles errors.
The vow Suffer Not doesn't stack with Furious Charge. Specifically in the text it states that the Str bonus in NOT cumulative with FC.
There are errors in your first lists but you're not using them, so not gonna waste time pointing them out.

Now as for the whole 1Rock<2Rock debate: Goes both ways. A single LR/C is a huge target because it generates threat. Multiple LR/Cs are nice for target saturation, but come at a Heavy slot and a hefty price. The trick with running a single "Rock" is maximizing its threat factor: Anti-tank will focus on it. An opponent is much less likely to fire his pred into your rhino on his left flank as he is the AV14 smashing up towards his right. And if he does shoot your rhino? Oh noes, the squad can hide behind the wreck while one more turn goes by with your Rock moving forward.
In my opinion the whole point of a "Rock" unit is to force your opponent to focus on it. If they are focusing on the Rock, they won't notice the pebbles.

**Corennus**

Well i actually changed my list at the end. Took Castellan with Terminator Honours in artificer armour and melta bombs with elite terminator CC squad.
2 LR Crusaders, one plasma gun team in a rhino. 1 ven dread (tank hunter) and an annihilator,.

Against black templar army I managed to draw, with my terminators about to rip the last of his initates to shreds before game ended.

**Corennus**

2 new list ideas that i'm doing:

Fist w/ castellan and CC Terminators:

HQ

Castellan
Artificer Armour
Storm Shield
Power Sword
Terminator Honours
130

Emp Champion
Vow: AACNMTO
140

ELITES

Terminator Assault Squad (5 man)
x 2 LC, x 3 TH/SS
Furious Charge
DT: Land Raider Crusader w/ blessed hull
505

Venerable Dreadnought
T-L Lascannon
Missile Launcher
Tank Hunters
Smoke Launchers
168

TROOPS

Crusader Squad (5 initiates , 5 neopyhtes)
Power Sword
Flamer
DT: Land Raider Crusader w/ blessed hull
436

Crusader Squad (5 initiates, 5 neophytes)
Power Fist
Melta Gun
DT: Drop Pod w/ Deathwind Launcher
210

FAST ATTACK

Landspeeder Typhoon
Multi-Melta
80

Landspeeder Typhoon
Multi-Melta
80

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And other option: Cyclone hell

HQ

The Emperor's Champion
Vow: AACNMTO
140

ELITES

Terminator Tactical Squad (5 man)
x 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers
Tank Hunters
275

Terminator Tactical Squad (5 man)
x 2 Cyclone Missile Launchers
Tank Hunters
275

Venerable Dreadnought
Multi-Melta
Extra Armour
Furious Charge
DT: Drop Pod
185

TROOPS

Crusader Squad (5 Initiates, 5 Neophytes)
Power Sword
Flamer
DT: Land Raider crusader w/ blessed hull
436

Crusader Squad (5 initiates, 5 neophytes)
Power Sword
Flamer
DT: Land Raider Crusader w/ blessed hull
436

1747

**TakamineG**

I'd suggest re-tooling the Marshall, depending on what transport he's in:

If he's in a rhino I'd drop the Artificer Armor. In all honesty he's not going to be taking many wounds and if he is taking a lot of wounds they probably ignore his armor save. If you're fighting a unit without power weapons or any real close combat potential you're gonna win anyway. If you fight a unit that is good in close combat they most likely will have power swords/fists/whatever that will be sent: 1) squads way which means your IC doesn't even take saves 2) ICs way which means they ignore your save.

If the Marshall isn't in the rhino give him Terminator Armor. It's actually 10 points cheaper and you get all the benefits of the Artificer version (Term Honors is given to a IC who takes the armor).

**Skavenknight**

If you would like to hear my list that just won first at a local event, this is what I recal:

hq
Emperor's champion - accept any challenge, no matter the odds
marshal - stormshield, lightning claw, adamantine mantle, holy orb of antinoch

elite
Terminator squad x5 - sgt, cyclone rack, cyclone rack, chainfist, tank hunters
- land raider w/ holy vessel and multi-melta

Terminator squad x5 - sgt, cyclone rack, cyclone rack, chainfist, tank hunters
- land raider w/ holy vessel and multi-melta

Terminator squad x5 - sgt, cyclone rack, cyclone rack, chainfist, tank hunters
- land raider w/ holy vessel and multi-melta

troops
Initiates x5 - meltagun, powerfist, crusader seals
- razorback w/ tl lascannon

Initiates x5 - meltagun, powerfist, crusader seals
- razorback w/ tl lascannon

heavy support
Vindicator - power of the machine spirit
Vindicator - power of the machine spirit
Vindicator - power of the machine spirit

the land raiders inheret the tank hunting making s10 lascannons, the lasbacks hold each hq with the troops, the vindicators can outdo any other vindicator or like-vehicle to-date.

my strategy was blast away at transports turn 1 (one game it took two turns, lol), then once vehicles are gone you slaughter infantry with cyclones, vindis and land raiders and then smoosh everything else in combat. each game i tabled the opponent by turn 4. *I am not bragging, but just showing that black templars are very strong if you look advantages.

many people fall to the bait of lightning claw termies, but a powerfist with favored enemy is actually better and causes instant death. plus the tank hunting on cyclone racks means if the land raider blows, you have two lascannons left, essentially. assault cannons may be cool, but you get more utility from a cyclone rack.

**Jabbdo**

I'm pretty sure tank hunters doesnt pass on to your transport...

You'd better hope none of the people you played realize this and come knocking on your door

As for the list:

What point value is that BTW? It looks to be over 2000?

Marshal seems a bit out of place, I'd either keep him naked and still give everyone ld10, or rather give him TDA so you can pick up a termi command squad.

Whats up with the crusaders? 10 marines as troops @ 2000 seems a bit

Especially as BT can get 5 man crusader squads w/lasplas for 101pts. The fists... I'd lose them, 15pts for a single swing doesnt cut it. BT are the only marine codex who can still get heavy and special weapons in a 5 man squad (and dirt cheap), I'd abuse that.

Vindis are fine, they combo well with the LR's.

**Rurouni Benshin**

Jabbdo wrote:I'm pretty sure tank hunters doesnt pass on to your transport...

It doesn't. Otherwise, we'd see a lot more Eldar Fire Dragons with Wave Serpents carrying a TL Bright Lance. Tank Hunting Lance weapons FTW...?

No... unfortunately, not.

The list is supposed to be 2500 points (I know Skavenknight personally, and he told me that it's supposed to be 2500). However, my Army Builder is quoting me at a higher amount, upwards of 2600+. Granted, my Army Builder is out of date, so if someone with a current version could confirm it, that'd be appreciated.

**TakamineG**

Skavenknight wrote:
hq
Emperor's champion - accept any challenge, no matter the odds
marshal - stormshield, lightning claw, adamantine mantle, holy orb of antinoch

elite
Terminator squad x5 - sgt, cyclone rack, cyclone rack, chainfist, tank hunters
- land raider w/ holy vessel and multi-melta

Terminator squad x5 - sgt, cyclone rack, cyclone rack, chainfist, tank hunters
- land raider w/ holy vessel and multi-melta

Terminator squad x5 - sgt, cyclone rack, cyclone rack, chainfist, tank hunters
- land raider w/ holy vessel and multi-melta

troops
Initiates x5 - meltagun, powerfist, crusader seals
- razorback w/ tl lascannon

Initiates x5 - meltagun, powerfist, crusader seals
- razorback w/ tl lascannon

heavy support
Vindicator - power of the machine spirit
Vindicator - power of the machine spirit
Vindicator - power of the machine spirit

I'm showing something like 2800 points.... assuming that by holy vessel he means blessed hull?

In all honesty this list is confusing:
Terminators do not give Tank Hunter to their transport. In addition they can't fire inside the transport so it seems like a huge point sink for units that wont fire much. And Black Templar don't have sgts.

Crusader Seals are not necessary on the crusader squads because they are mounted and will almost never RZ. Also at 5 men per squad if they take more than 1 casually they are pretty screwed. 10 men total to hold objectives in a 2500 point list is as low as you can possibly go and still have a legal list.

Accept Any Challenge really doesn't do much either since you only have 2 crusader squads and 3 terminators. Maybe take Abhor next time?