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I loved the class creation bit and I'm not convinced on having perks in elder scrolls to be honest.

Dual wield sounds promising though.

corpsesarefun wrote:I loved the class creation bit and I'm not convinced on having perks in elder scrolls to be honest.

Dual wield sounds promising though.

Duel Wield sounds promising, indeed. Especially if they re add throwing stars/daggers

As for Perks, it all depends on how they do them for me. I am open to the idea, but I hope they are more than simply + Damage, + health type of things.

Melissia wrote:I actually prefer steam, but for TES products it's not very good.

Personally I thought Oblivion was good, at least as good as morrowind anyway. But call me an oldbie, I still remember Daggerfall, which was better than either

I never got around to playing Daggerfall, I've heard it was the buggiest of the series and while it is massive, it is also a lot of cut and paste. Morrowind stands out as being the best MQ in TES (even though Daggerfall does an awesome end to its MQ) and the best world. Oblivion really improved the gameplay, especially for casters, but the world is too drab and the AI in the game was incredibly overhyped.

Chrysaor686 wrote:Although I find it rather strange that Bethsoft decided to use one of Vvardenfell's less unique locations yet again (this was one of the complaints that I had with Oblivion), I can't say I'm not excited for 11.11.11.

Oh, how I wish this was set on Summerset Isle, or in The Black Marsh. Nordic culture has already had plenty of reference within the Elder Scrolls series, with things like Bloodmoon and Northern Tamriel. I want a unique culture to sink my teeth into.

On a side note, this was probably one of the worst teaser trailers I've ever seen.

Yeah, I'm not impressed with the trailer or their choice of Skyrim. They have some of the most exotic locations in modern fantasy to choose from and yet they chose Cyrodil and now Skyrim.

Peter Wiggin wrote:Been playing TES games since Arena. I'll buy ANYTHING with that label and a Bethesda stamp. Although Morrowind was very fun, folks tend to forget that you basically became godmode with melee after a while. For powergaming casters were fairly useless, or I'm just a complete noob! They've all been solid games that I MORE than got my money's worth out of, and Oblivion was gorgeous in comparisson to the others. With a sandbox game graphics can actually be a very very important thing....look at the screenie from Arena for an example.

I'd also like to note that I played on a PC up through Morrowind. I eventually got the Xbox version of it and ran into FAR less bugs and game crashes than on a PC. I played Oblivion exclusively on Xbox and have never once had a glitch or game crash. Bethesda stuff seems far more stable on a console. <shrug> Their older computer releases were awesome, but bug ridden in the extreme.

A lot of the bug issues in the PC versions end up being fixed by modders. The modding community produces a lot of excellent tweaks and add ons, the trick is avoiding the really warped stuff that is put out.

The new leveling changes and the addition of built in dual wielding look promising.

Hey I'm a fan of norse stuff so I'm probably going to enjoy the setting.

VikingScott wrote:Hey I'm a fan of norse stuff so I'm probably going to enjoy the setting.

I agree, vikings and dragons is a great combination.

The perks system in fallout 3 was highly successful and added a lot of flavour to the game but what worries me is that fallout was a pretty grim world that used subtle humour (something strongly embodied by the vaultboys) to cut the generic grimness whereas the TES worlds were more high fantasy that doesn't need the kind of flavour perks brought.

You know, I hope they turn Torches into Blunt Weapons that have a Light on self and Fire Damage 1 for 5 seconds on target. They should be enchantable after that, too.

The reason why I say that is because being a Fire Mage in Oblivion, Fire Spells, Mythic Dawn Robes, and a Torch, was always a blast. I just wish the Torch would actually do something for me when I did that other than cosmetics.

The reason it should be Enchantable is because I always used to pretend that "The Torch is the source of my power", and it would be nice to actually have a Mana Regen Enchant on it

I actually just got Oblivion and am playing a Nord
This game looks great! any clue if you'll be able to import your character like in Fable?

Lord of battles wrote:I actually just got Oblivion and am playing a Nord
This game looks great! any clue if you'll be able to import your character like in Fable?

No. There is a significant time difference between all of The Elder Scrolls games. It is also not a good idea to ever mention a TES game and Fable in the same paragraph.

Amaya wrote:

Lord of battles wrote:I actually just got Oblivion and am playing a Nord
This game looks great! any clue if you'll be able to import your character like in Fable?

No. There is a significant time difference between all of The Elder Scrolls games. It is also not a good idea to ever mention a TES game and Fable in the same paragraph.

Indeed, one is good.....

Why should TES and fable never be in the same paragraph?

Happygrunt wrote:Why should TES and fable never be in the same paragraph?

Because one promises you the Moon and you get the Stars along with it, and the other promises the Stars and you only get the Moon.

Slarg232 wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:Why should TES and fable never be in the same paragraph?

Because one promises you the Moon and you get the Stars along with it, and the other promises the Stars and you only get the Moon.

More; one promises you the moon and you get the whole cosmos along with it. The other promises the moon and you only receive a little sphere of cheese which resembles the moon in some way.

On a more on topic note, I seriously cannot wait for this game...

Glad they are doing away with scaling. That was a huge negative for Oblivion.

Agreed. That was one thing I loved in Morrowind. You just didnt know if going into a dungeon was a good idea t your current lvl. Many times would I run away screaming because I bit off more then I could chew.
Oblivion was no problem at all. Its ok, I have a rusted knife and some ratty looking clothes, Ill man handle anything down there

Slarg232 wrote:Copy Pasta from Facebook App:

One wildly unpopular aspect of Oblivion was the fact basic enemies levelled up alongside you, meaning even the most powerful warriors could sometimes be undone by sewer rats or angry crabs. In Skyrim, though, your opponent's levelling is more like that found in Fallout 3.

Sounded good except for this bit. What are they talking about with those rats and crabs? Maybe it's because I only played it on the PS3 but those critters are one hit kills for my high level character (in cases I still encounter them). It's just that most of the other monsters are all high level and some other lower tier monsters seem to have vanished entirely.

I found that a lot like Fallout 3. Or are they referring to how Raiders have a power-cap so even though you still encounter them they do become real easy in the end (and give as much XP as a Super Mutant Behemoth)?

Everything in Oblivion scaled, but only to a certain level.

I remember the first thing I learnt in Morrowind; don't go swimming and avoid the mountains.

The big problem with Oblivion scaling was how it interacted with levels and your skills.

By having your main combat abilities (be they spells, armor, weapons, etc) actually not be one of your primary or secondary skills, you were able to become incredibly powerful with that ability without raising your level. So, you could hit like a tank, but still be low level and hence, enemies would be low level.

The most munchkin strategies in Oblivion focused on remaining low level, which is just silly, IMO.


Don't get me wrong, I loved Oblivion (and Morrowind's) leveling system. Use skills to improve them, skill improvement means you gain levels. It makes way more sense than a set xp reward. But, it didn't work with enemy scaling based on your level.

've gotta wonder, since Skyrim is right up North there next to Morrowind, will we be seeing more unique creatures and monsters in the wild? Don't get me wrong, it was plenty fun fighting off wolf packs and Bears... the first four or five times. But I'd like to see some Nix hounds, or Horkers or something. Heck, after Oblivion, even Cliff Racers would be welcome!


And about that, hoping to Vivec that they bring back three dimensional movement. I want my Icarian Flight, dangit!

Grakmar wrote:The big problem with Oblivion scaling was how it interacted with levels and your skills.

....

Don't get me wrong, I loved Oblivion (and Morrowind's) leveling system. Use skills to improve them, skill improvement means you gain levels. It makes way more sense than a set xp reward. But, it didn't work with enemy scaling based on your level.

You're completely right about that. My brother's wife played Oblivion before I had the game myself and ran into huge problems later on in the game. She had taken one of the pre-set classes which meant she was levelling up like crazy, but hardly getting any attribute point increases. So she simply became too weak for the monsters of her level.

That made me read an online guide before I started the game, and so I made a custom class with a good spread of main skills and faithfully grind some skills for attribute points before I purposely level up again. Boring grind fests.....long live those Everscamps to train my combat skills.

Didn't want the 'stay at low level' route though. I wanted some progress in the kind of enemies I faced and the loot I could find (also I wanted to be able to do more Daedric quests).

Slarg232 wrote:As for Perks, it all depends on how they do them for me. I am open to the idea, but I hope they are more than simply + Damage, + health type of things.

There were plenty of flavourful perks in Fallout 3.


The issue to me is the same as with all ES games, will the terrible, stupid experience system get in the way of an otherwise fun game? It was terrible in Morrowind, but that game had enough going for it I didn't mind. It was an even poorer system in Oblivion, just stunningly poor really, and with the 'everyone else is levelling up just as fast as you are' silliness, it resulted in a really disappointing game. Fallout 3 fixed a lot of this, as they finally had the bright idea to disassociate individual skill progress from levelling.

From what I've read so far they've taken a back step with ES V, once again worrying about how individual skills affect your overall level. As such, predictably, there will be a right way and a wrong way to level, and when you add in the scaling enemies, you end up with the same silliness as Oblivion*.

Really, at some point someone over there has to realise that if you're going to track the us of individual skills, then you might as well throw levels out the door entirely, and just have characters reflected through their skills.




*The actual skill in this game, the only skill really, was in learning how the stupid levelling system worked, and then gaming it to make your character gain levels in the right proportion to his skills and no faster. Absolutely ridiculous, and to be honest I can't believe people were paid to design something like that. Especially when the game had so much going for it elsewhere.

I'm a bit concerned about the removal of the Class system; I enjoyed making my own custom Inquisitor, Demon Hunter, Monster Hunter classes and using the pre made Witch Hunter class. Now without the classes its going to be a bit more difficult to do that...

I just hope there are much more factions to join in this game to make up for the lost classes; and that they actually begin to matter game-wise. Oblivion would have been better if the Blackwood Company was permanently joinable and not destroyed for example.

Still, I'll get the game. I also want an overhaul of the spell making system.

sebster wrote:
Fallout 3 fixed a lot of this, as they finally had the bright idea to disassociate individual skill progress from levelling.

I agree with everything else but this makes no sense, you increased skills in fallout 3 BY levelling.

http://www.gameinformer.com/p/skyrim_wall.aspx

I don't believe this has been posted yet.

The moving wall we saw in the trailer is apparently called Alduin's wall. The link will take you to an interactive version of the wall where the components of it are explained.

corpsesarefun wrote:I agree with everything else but this makes no sense, you increased skills in fallout 3 BY levelling.

Hmm, that wasn't my finest moment, was it?

In fact, I'm not even sure what I meant by that.

The way I took it you meant to say that levelling and skill increase is no longer based on skills actually used and are no longer directly related with corresponding attributes. In Fallout 3 I can level up having gained all my XP for that level by shooting critters with my 10mm Pistol and picking locks. Then, as I actually level up, I'm free to put my skillpoints into Energy Weapons (which I didn't use) and take a Smooth Talker Perk (while I didn't Barter or attempted Speech Checks).

This is of course also caused by the fact that Fallout character attributes do not increase each level and can only do so under special circumstances (Perks, Bobbleheads, certain items).

Your suggestion about skill/attribute increase without there actually being any levels might well be pure genius. But it would take a lot of effort to get right.

I saw a thread about Skyrim on another forum, and it reminded me of my biggest bugbear on Oblivion, bigger than the leveling thing.

The 'We know who you are and what you did' Guards, even if what you did was out in the sticks and there where no witnesses.

It bugs me to hell when you have Guards who seem to have some kind of Omnipresence.

If I want to play an evil character, assassin, thief, If I can pull something off and there are no witnesses, then why should the Guards know.

GTA had a similiar problem, and IV at least fixed it to a degree, you had to be spotted, and then you could loose them.

Thats the other thing in Oblivion, I want to be able to loose the Guards eventually. Hell with the masked armour I had at one point, the Guards should have been unable to tell who I was, as soon as removed the set.

So I'm hoping Skyrim has a more forgiving punishment system.

It was worse in Morrowind if I remember right.

I'd like it if they did do something like that, but town specific. So its not like in GTA 4 where you walk past a police officer and they're like "oh hey mr babypuncher, going for a walk?". You're not stabbing someone at the time, so you mustn't be such a bad guy after all.

It would probably be better if they remembered how much of a jerk you are. If you do your time they no longer try to kill you, but go out of their way to show you how much they hate you. News could spread to the other areas, but it would have to reach a certain threshold and then it should be those couriers you saw from time to time. So you could disrupt it and keep the effected towns silent about your exploits.

Aye actually I think you summed up pretty much exactly what I'd want.

Town specific would actually be ideal, most towns have their own worries, and you'd need to do some serious stuff for guards in other towns to even notice.

That alone would be a huge boon for me if it was the case.

There are mods for Oblivion that fix the stupid Guards somewhat. But yeah, tjhe vanilla Guards are annoying as hell.

I should really consider getting one or two RPG's on my PC. My oblivion was on Xbox, but I do see the mods and wonder if I'm missing out.

Hell look at Sims 3, I'd never consider getting the 360 version as you are hamstringed by only being able to buy stuff from EA.

Think I've downloaded something in the region of one thousand items from Sims Resource for my PC version.

So why my brain gets that, but fumbles over RPGs, I'm not entirely sure.