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Icurrently paly cities of death, and since Eradicators don't allow ocver saves, I think they would be pretty handy.

I personally like the Pasquisher - yeah, it's expensive as balls all kitted out, but I believe he's worth it against SM & IG.
Mine:
Vanquisher
+Pask
+LC
+MMs
+Camo

Yeah, that's about 270 points (with 2 S8 AP1 shots, one S9 AP2, 1 S8+2d6 shot, not including the +1 penetration if stationary). But every SM player with a LR needs to figure out how he's going to deal with it. Every IG player with a LRBT needs to figure out how he's going to deal with it. The camo netting makes him 50% more survivable when not moving, which has a nice synergy with his +1 AP when he's not moving.

If a IG player says, oh, easy, I'll just drop my vets off from a Vendetta, bear in mind, if you move far enough to do so, you're not getting your TLLC (if you're going for it first turn). Your vets now have 3 shots - 1 miss, 1 eats a cover save, and 1 gets through. Now you have a ~62% chance to pen, with a 50% chance to destroy (he's not in a squadron in my list). So that's a ~1/3rd chance. In retaliation, you'll lose the Vendetta to my 2 hydras (which I brought since I'm not legally slowed), and your vets are going to eat lasguns...Outflank? I brought a Officer of the Fleet. You brought an Astropath? 1/3rd chance you'll come in where you want to.

OK, let's say the IG player brought 2 Vendettas with trimelt vets - now you've devoted more points than the Pasquisher to give you a 2/3rd chance to kill it. In retaliation, you've lost at least one Vendetta and probably both melta squads...how are you rolling on your deep strike dice? Sure you're going to be below half-range?

In the meantime, my own trimelts are on their way to your LRBTs, and my LRBTs are pooping on you....

Mech Marines have a tougher time - Landspeeders with MM have a worse chance to kill it (you'd need three to have the same odds as the trimelts), LC at range vs. AV14 are no fun, etc. Even AC lose half their rends vs. cover.

Easiest way to negate the Pasquisher? Bring footsloggers or lots of light armor (DE, SW).

It's not what the Pasquisher can do, it's what he can make your opponent do.

Hmm. The MM's seem a little extraneous, since you need to sit still to benefit from Crack Shot and your Camo Netting. Odds are they will never be in range, especially not Melta range.

It seems like your paying 270 points for 1 guaranteed dead tank a turn. So against competent players you'll be popping those Rhinos, RBacks, Chimeras, and Raiders like crazy. But DE can ignore your fire (flickerfields, nightshield), the Guard guy will kill you with the 2 Manticores/Medusas he bought for the same points as your 1 Russ, and Marines will either Drop Pod Sternguard it, or just assault it (Blood Angels).

I guess I just feel that in a codex with so many good things to spend points on, dumping that many into 1 model is a bit silly.

Just my opinion though. Try and convince me please, I am still new to Guard and I'm willing to try it.

Im paying for a guaranteed dead tank a turn. Thats why its less effective versus razorback spam or dark eldar altogether. Its best against lr and lrbt/predators. The mm are for deep striking terminators and if the main gun gets destroyed. Plus they make more sense than hbs and are cheaper than plasma cannons.

Drop pod sternguard are not cheap, particularly at the numbers you would be talking about to get thru the cover save. Five will not guarantee a kill, especially since you only get one scatter roll. Flicker fields are only a 5 +, and I have already conceded dark eldar are a bad match versus this tank . I believe if you try it you will be pleasantly surprised with how much it affects your opponents play.

bthom37 wrote:Im paying for a guaranteed dead tank a turn. Thats why its less effective versus razorback spam or dark eldar altogether. Its best against lr and lrbt/predators. The mm are for deep striking terminators and if the main gun gets destroyed. Plus they make more sense than hbs and are cheaper than plasma cannons.

Drop pod sternguard are not cheap, particularly at the numbers you would be talking about to get thru the cover save. Five will not guarantee a kill, especially since you only get one scatter roll. Flicker fields are only a 5 +, and I have already conceded dark eldar are a bad match versus this tank . I believe if you try it you will be pleasantly surprised with how much it affects your opponents play.

I'm glad it works for you, but there's no way i'd spend that many points on 1 tank. period.
if you keep it in one place(to use the camo netting/all weapons), i don't see how it's that effective against alot of targets. not to mention it's a setting duck. and if you're driving around, you're wasting the camo netting
albeit keeping it safer.

Same here.

If your intent is to stop transports, there are far better options, like Vendettas or Hydras or whatever.

If you're concerned about AV14, a meltavet squad is 155 points and has a 20" threat range for 2d6 penetration. Manticores are quite potent at blowing up all forms of AV14. If we're talking Russes, Vendettas are adequate for taking care of them by nuking them in the side. Speeders can also frequently get side shots. As for outflankers, even with an Officer of the Fleet they still have a 43% chance of getting the side they want if they don't have any way of getting bonuses. With an Astropath, the two advisors cancel out and they have a 66% chance of getting the side they want (I have no idea what kind of insane math you did to get 1/3).

And I love the use of the word "guaranteed". Nothing is guaranteed in 40K, especially when you're talking about a vehicle with only two shots until things get up close and personal. Two shots that miss 1/3 of the time and bounce off cover half the time.

I'm guaranteed (as much as anything can be in a dice based game) to be presenting a 48" threat zone which will impact my opponents deployment and game behavior. For 270 points thats not bad I also run two trimelts in chimeras, so I am presenting multiple threats from multiple angles. Its not the best option in the world, but it does give guard the true long range at threat it lacks. If your opponent decides its not a threat, he will be most likely quite surprised. If he decides to treat it as a threat and avoid it, you have already gotten into his head. The best solution is to ignore it, but thats hard for many players.

Its not the best option in the world, but it does give guard the true long range at threat it lacks.

Umm.... what?

Vendettas, HWT's, Medusa's, LR Demolishers.... It seems the IG is spoiled rotten when it comes to quality, long range anti-tank.

Maybe I'm just crazy.

odorofdeath wrote:

Its not the best option in the world, but it does give guard the true long range at threat it lacks.

Umm.... what?

Vendettas, HWT's, Medusa's, LR Demolishers.... It seems the IG is spoiled rotten when it comes to quality, long range anti-tank.

Maybe I'm just crazy.

vendettas are the only one you have listed that would qualify in my eyes. What hwt would qualify? Lascannons? It is to laugh. Demolishers would require two, which is more points. Medusas are interesting...

HWT's with Lascannons + Bring It Down! are quite capable of tank busting. They wouldn't be my first choice though.

Why do you need 2 Demolishers? Its a large blast that rolls 2d6 and picks the highest, even on a bad scatter you should be ok for disabling Rhinos and such.

IMHO Manticore and Vendetta are the best long range anti-tank for IG they're versatile plus, they're pretty cheap compared to that 270 point tank.

Back to Topic

2 Medusas, 2 Hydras, and a Manticore is my setup, handles pretty much everything. Though I have yet to try the Basilisks in replacement of the Medusas

I would say Basilisks would be superior in a more MEQ dominated environment but take the Medusas when you need to kill more AV14 than anything else. Yes, the Medusa is AP2, but the Bassie is a bit cheaper, and can hide in safety. Not to mention S9 is more than enough for popping Rhinos, Razorbacks and even Predators and Vindicators if fired indirectly.

@ChrisWWII
Keep in mind that an extra 5 points makes the medusa AP1 with 2d6 ArP. It also give it a bit more range but unfortunately decreases the size of the blast. but for long range anti tank it is an interesting option.

Cheers,
~Volkan

Which is why I said take Medusas when you need to kill AV14, but take Basilisks if you need to kill Marines and their transports.

Besisdes, without the ability to fire indirectly, the Medusa probably won't live very long. It's AV12, open top....not exactly the toughest thing to destroy. The Medusa is only really worth it when you have things like Leman Russes, Land Raiders, or Monoliths that you can't risk getting close enough (or just simply can't) get close enough to melta.

It has a place in the army, and that role is long range anti tank....but that's really quite a narrow role considering what else the heavy support slot has to offer.