Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys, lets stay on the topic the op intended this thread for. Bjorn is not acceptable evidence to marine immortality. Lion El'Jonson is however debatable, seeing how he is sleeping until needed. He is the only loyal primarch that can be measured in terms of age as well final resting status (ie. dispute about leman russ' ventures into the warp) As for Guilliman, we can safely say that he won't be returning, as noted by many respectable ultrasmurfs (Uriel Ventris, I believe Calgar too)

If Alpharius is alive then there is evidence that marines are pretty immortal. If not well there's the guy in the Salamanders novel. Dante's geneseed helps with aging so he will probably live (or not die from aging) for a long time.
SW geneseed is dodgy with aging. Logan Grimnar however is 700 years old and still going strong so i guess he'll be around a while longer.

With alpharius, is there the possibility of minor chaos taint? I know they are doing it under the influence of the kabal, to end chaos, but could chaos affect him? And i guess we just have to stick around for dante and logan to see how they pan out

Didn't he side with Chaos to destroy it?

the Alpha Legion really isn't on anyone's side.

the safest definition of them is "Renegade"



since the Alpha Legion doesn't operate within the EoT, their marines would be, more or less, uneffected by the Timestream changes.

the only thing that would change their lifespan would be gifts of the Chaos Gods which, as they are undivided, would be a rare occurance.


so there are Alpha Legion members that are 10k, actual, years old.

Grey Templar wrote:the Alpha Legion really isn't on anyone's side.

the safest definition of them is "Renegade"



since the Alpha Legion doesn't operate within the EoT, their marines would be, more or less, uneffected by the Timestream changes.

the only thing that would change their lifespan would be gifts of the Chaos Gods which, as they are undivided, would be a rare occurance.


so there are Alpha Legion members that are 10k, actual, years old.

I think youre taking some pretty big leaps there.
1) Anyone who enters the warp is affected by the "timestream", more often than not they get to where they are going, but occassionally they get there, BEFORE they left their original destination, or significantly after they were supposed to. While in transit in the warp I could easily see the Chaos gods manipulating the timestream to aid the Alpha Legion. While they arnt beholden to any particular god, they certainly are on the side of Chaos. Chaos undivided simply means they dont worship one God EXCLUSIVELY.
2) Chaos has the ability to create new Marines, too. Since the Alpha legion are by and large stuck in realspace, their small numbers add credence to the belief that Marine lifespans are limited. Clearly its difficult for them to produce Marines on as large (relative) a scale as Loyalist chapter, hence their small numbers.
3) Just because they are'nt in the EOT doesnt mean they cant find pockets of warpspace or create them. See Warp Rifts: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Warp_rift#Warp_rifts

Worms4u wrote:3: Blood angels and I believe ultra smurfs have all of their organs, however Blood angels usually die from the black rage. If they didn't fall to the black rage they in theory could live forever like Dante.

The Ultramarines don't really seem to live that long - Chaplain Cassius at barely 400 is said to be the oldest active marine in the chapter, always calling his boss "young Calgar". Could have been someone older in their 1st company perhaps, but those were wiped out. That does fit with the "live by the sword, die by the sword"... marines don't really get to test the limits of their longevity.

Well they live for a long time thats all i know

Monster Rain wrote:Guilliman is in stasis, I'm not sure what that makes him.

A vegetable.

DickBandit wrote:

Monster Rain wrote:Guilliman is in stasis, I'm not sure what that makes him.

A vegetable.

But what kind of vegetable?

Celery, he's got a stalk build, BUH DUM TISH

Someone mentioned earlier that in one of the HH novels(I believe Horus Rising) someone (probably Loken) states that Astartes are immortal. However, in A Thousand Sons, Ahriman remarks that they haven't found out yet if they are immortal, as the oldest Astartes are no more then 250-300 years old(Iacton).

Asherian Command wrote:Yeah. Thats true. Humans can only live for 120 years max.

Depends almost completely on the World, Rank, etc.

I'd say around 120 would be a good rounded 'max' to the average life expectancy. The variables then flux greatly either upward (Deathworlds, Underhives, etc) or downward (Paradise Worlds, well paying jobs, etc).

An 89 year old noble in one of the Eisenhorn short stories was considered 'young', but 'remarkably intact' with a lack of Juve drugs, Augments, etc.

I dont think space marines are immortal, every chapter seems to vary in longevity e.g the oldest ultramarine (chaplain cassius) is about 400 years old whereas the oldest blood angel (dante) is about 1200 years old. The only reason the chaos space marines are not dead is because the chaos gods have seen fit to increase their life span.

Of course, no space marine has died of old age.

they have all died in battle or from wounds taken in battle.

Well, research shows that the human body is made to withstand just more than 150 years, but due to diet and our environment, we do not live that long.

Moving on, i was wondering that perhaps some space marines get so old that they are interred in dreadnoughts, because they are so experienced and would be non-beneficial to lose. On the other hand, with the galaxy being such a dangerous place and such, i think at some point of time they would just be killed. Perhaps they gain more machine parts or just work as general staff in thier respective fortress monastaries?

there are occasionally marines who get "retired"


for a Space Marine that means he gets to train and lead the Scout squads where he actually has a pretty good chance of getting killed as he isn't wearing his PA.

Hmm, on the point of CSM's aging, i beleive there was a chaos dex where CSM swuads were allowed to take "Veteran" Skills and it specifically stated this was because many of them were around during the time of the heresy.

If Alpha legion do indeed spend most of their time outside the Eye and other relatable warp rifts then while it safe to say some of them may have been effected by the shift in timestream, its unlikely ALL of them had been effected to a large degree. Even if each one HAD been effected so that the ravages of time where even half as much as they should be, your still talking 5,000 years.

However to countermand this point, CSMs, even Alpha legion who supposedly arent as efffected by chaos, for the most part seem almost bonded to their armour, almost becomming a single hybrid entity, obviously this would give them enhanced longevity while their biological components might wither with time.

Hell in another 10,000 years all CSM;s might be cyborgs....

I'd say their bioengineering and such have them not dying of old age. Instead they die by Lady Gaga.

Space Marines can die of old age according to Ragnar Blackmane in the space wolves omnibus. There are several recorded cases but no names mentioned

It seems that the answer is too widely debated even among the Black Library authors. BA codex points out that Blood Angels live longer than marines from other chapters which would indicate that they do age, but there are sources in some of the BL novels that indicate Astartes are immortal. Maybe the Blood Angels simply don't show the signs of aging?

Dante actually isn't 1100 years old, even though that seemed to be the story at first. The new codex states that he has been Chapter Master for 1100 years, and that nobody knows any more exactly how old he is except Dante himself. He could be significantly older.

About Guilliman, I thought the official story was that they got him into stasis before he actually died, but they can't heal him. So technically he isn't dead?

He hasn't aged in stasis so he doesn't count.

purplefood wrote:He hasn't aged in stasis so he doesn't count.

I know, but somebody said earlier in the thread that he was dead, and that isn't the case.

Orblivion wrote:

purplefood wrote:He hasn't aged in stasis so he doesn't count.

I know, but somebody said earlier in the thread that he was dead, and that isn't the case.

Well it's basically a coin flip between dead and very nearly dead with no hope of recovery. He might be alive or he might be dead. He might be healing (hough this is discounted by most of the Ultramarines).