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LordWynne wrote:Site I use is Wikipedia....Thunderhawk....from there you can see the history of the Stormhawk.....all the way to Storm Raven in one blog and even find stats from there to lead you to stats that are legal. Besides I bet a new Armor Book will have to be made just to handle the fluff for this kind of craft.

So a mini-thunderhawk is a stormraven, a thunderhawk is a mini-stormhawk, and a stormhawk is a mini-stormbird?

shrike wrote:

LordWynne wrote:Site I use is Wikipedia....Thunderhawk....from there you can see the history of the Stormhawk.....all the way to Storm Raven in one blog and even find stats from there to lead you to stats that are legal. Besides I bet a new Armor Book will have to be made just to handle the fluff for this kind of craft.

So a mini-thunderhawk is a stormraven, a thunderhawk is a mini-stormhawk, and a stormhawk is a mini-stormbird?

No. They're not created from the same source. They're independently developed. There's no "mini-<insert name>" about it.

The Stormbird was a much bigger, more unique piece of machinery that was described during the Horus Heresy novels as resembling a giant piece of functioning art.

The Thunderhawk was its replacement, designed to be more utilitarian rather than artistic.

And the Stormraven is just a natural offshoot of the Thunderhawk, where we've got a craft designed to land a small amount of troops rather than a functional army.

Look in the Imperial Armor II book basic stats of the Thunderhawk are there enough said. Storm Ravens are a smaller craft used for 10 man unit insertion with a vehicle.

LordWynne wrote:Look in the Imperial Armor II book basic stats of the Thunderhawk are there enough said. Storm Ravens are a smaller craft used for 10 man unit insertion with a vehicle.

Yes, for the Thunderhawk.

There's no such craft, that I can find anywhere I've looked, as a "Stormhawk".

I know there is a Stormbird, but again...that's three times the size of a Thunderhawk.

Kanluwen wrote:

LordWynne wrote:Site I use is Wikipedia....Thunderhawk....from there you can see the history of the Stormhawk.....all the way to Storm Raven in one blog and even find stats from there to lead you to stats that are legal. Besides I bet a new Armor Book will have to be made just to handle the fluff for this kind of craft.

You mean the Stormbird?

It's nearly triple the size of a Thunderhawk. It could carry an entire Chapter at once, not a Company or Strike Force.

Errr.... A vehicle 3x the size of a Thunderhawk cannot carry 1000 marines. In any case, the Stormbird is usually described as carrying about 60-100 marines, so that WOULD be a company.

And yeah, I haven't been able to find anything about a stormhawk at all. Although I have a theory as to where the name/obviously made up fluff came from...

chaos0xomega wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

LordWynne wrote:Site I use is Wikipedia....Thunderhawk....from there you can see the history of the Stormhawk.....all the way to Storm Raven in one blog and even find stats from there to lead you to stats that are legal. Besides I bet a new Armor Book will have to be made just to handle the fluff for this kind of craft.

You mean the Stormbird?

It's nearly triple the size of a Thunderhawk. It could carry an entire Chapter at once, not a Company or Strike Force.

Errr.... A vehicle 3x the size of a Thunderhawk cannot carry 1000 marines. In any case, the Stormbird is usually described as carrying about 60-100 marines, so that WOULD be a company.

It was described as landing a full Chapter worth of Marines during "Horus Rising".

I'd say it's all about the spacing within. The Thunderhawk is extremely wasteful with how it's set up, what with the heavy armament and all.

Meh,I'll stick with the older description for now, that sounds a little ridiculous IMO. Even if the Thunderhawk isn't optimized for carrying people around, going from 30 guys to 1000 seems like a bit of a stretch (and then there is the issue that there weren't chapters during the Horus Heresy... only Legions, unless Chapter was a term used to describe another type of formation at the time...)

and I think I figured the stormhawk thing out

Look in the Imperial Armor II book basic stats of the Thunderhawk are there enough said. Storm Ravens are a smaller craft used for 10 man unit insertion with a vehicle.

Sounds to me like he pretty much described a Stormraven. 10 or so guys + a dread...

The stormraven doesnt scare me . Im just going to Load up on 3 long fang squads 15 missiles should be plenty plus what ever else ill be throwing at them.

chaos0xomega wrote:Meh,I'll stick with the older description for now, that sounds a little ridiculous IMO. Even if the Thunderhawk isn't optimized for carrying people around, going from 30 guys to 1000 seems like a bit of a stretch (and then there is the issue that there weren't chapters during the Horus Heresy... only Legions, unless Chapter was a term used to describe another type of formation at the time...)

That's pretty much the only description of a Stormbird out there, coming from the Horus Heresy novels. It's mentioned that it's huge and carries no armament, but actually features armories, etc within its hull. It was also described as "dwarfing" Thunderhawks.

Next:
"Chapter" was a term used to describe an organization of 1000 Marines.

It's why, following the Horus Heresy, the Legions broke up into Chapters.

The "big" organizational matrix was: Legion->Chapter->Company.

chaos0xomega wrote:and I think I figured the Stormhawk thing out

Look in the Imperial Armor II book basic stats of the Thunderhawk are there enough said. Storm Ravens are a smaller craft used for 10 man unit insertion with a vehicle.

Sounds to me like he pretty much described a Stormraven. 10 or so guys + a dread...

Except he said "Stormravens are a smaller craft used for a 10 man unit insertion with a vehicle."

I.E.; what we already know. He didn't provide any information about this "Stormhawk".

Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Meh,I'll stick with the older description for now, that sounds a little ridiculous IMO. Even if the Thunderhawk isn't optimized for carrying people around, going from 30 guys to 1000 seems like a bit of a stretch (and then there is the issue that there weren't chapters during the Horus Heresy... only Legions, unless Chapter was a term used to describe another type of formation at the time...)

That's pretty much the only description of a Stormbird out there, coming from the Horus Heresy novels. It's mentioned that it's huge and carries no armament, but actually features armories, etc within its hull. It was also described as "dwarfing" Thunderhawks.

Next:
"Chapter" was a term used to describe an organization of 1000 Marines.

It's why, following the Horus Heresy, the Legions broke up into Chapters.

The "big" organizational matrix was: Legion->Chapter->Company.

I think you need to go back and re-read Horus Rising then, poking around online, it seems that the general consensus is that they aren't quite that large. This seems to be the most reliable source I could find, giving page references, etc.
http://z15.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Crusade/index.php?showtopic=816&st=0
scroll down to the 5th or 6th post (by a certain Gagoc the Ancient)

Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:and I think I figured the Stormhawk thing out

Look in the Imperial Armor II book basic stats of the Thunderhawk are there enough said. Storm Ravens are a smaller craft used for 10 man unit insertion with a vehicle.

Sounds to me like he pretty much described a Stormraven. 10 or so guys + a dread...

Except he said "Stormravens are a smaller craft used for a 10 man unit insertion with a vehicle."

I.E.; what we already know. He didn't provide any information about this "Stormhawk".

Doh, All this Storm this and Bird that has me confuzzled...

chaos0xomega wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:Meh,I'll stick with the older description for now, that sounds a little ridiculous IMO. Even if the Thunderhawk isn't optimized for carrying people around, going from 30 guys to 1000 seems like a bit of a stretch (and then there is the issue that there weren't chapters during the Horus Heresy... only Legions, unless Chapter was a term used to describe another type of formation at the time...)

That's pretty much the only description of a Stormbird out there, coming from the Horus Heresy novels. It's mentioned that it's huge and carries no armament, but actually features armories, etc within its hull. It was also described as "dwarfing" Thunderhawks.

Next:
"Chapter" was a term used to describe an organization of 1000 Marines.

It's why, following the Horus Heresy, the Legions broke up into Chapters.

The "big" organizational matrix was: Legion->Chapter->Company.

I think you need to go back and re-read Horus Rising then, poking around online, it seems that the general consensus is that they aren't quite that large. This seems to be the most reliable source I could find, giving page references, etc.
http://z15.invisionfree.com/The_Great_Crusade/index.php?showtopic=816&st=0
scroll down to the 5th or 6th post (by a certain Gagoc the Ancient)

Then I've got the carrying capacity wrong. Big deal.

It still doesn't change the fact that there's no Stormhawk, now does it? That's what I'm more concerned with.

The Stormbird part may just be me misremembering, as it's been awhile since I read False Gods/Horus Rising.
I do know that in "Descent of Angels" it was mentioned that they landed a full Chapter of Dark Angels utilizing "Stormbird drops".

That may just be me misinterpreting more than one Stormbird performing the drops, the same one making repeated trips, etc.

Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:and I think I figured the Stormhawk thing out

Look in the Imperial Armor II book basic stats of the Thunderhawk are there enough said. Storm Ravens are a smaller craft used for 10 man unit insertion with a vehicle.

Sounds to me like he pretty much described a Stormraven. 10 or so guys + a dread...

Except he said "Stormravens are a smaller craft used for a 10 man unit insertion with a vehicle."

I.E.; what we already know. He didn't provide any information about this "Stormhawk".

Doh, All this Storm this and Bird that has me confuzzled...

Yeah. It is annoying how many of the names overlap.

It'd be ridiculous for the Space Wolves to get the Stormraven in its current form. It would have to be renamed the Stormwolf gunship, be armed with four Wolfstrike missiles, and come with the Skies of Wolf special rule, and then it would be suitable for Space Wolf use.

@Raxmei You forgot, it does all that, whilst being able to split fire, and deploy TWC who can assault that turn.

Aside from that, OP, it's very simple to destroy, your army should look up with its "bajillion(15)" Krak missiles, and laugh as it spirals out of the sky on fire.

I play space wolves and when i read about this thing my only thought was yippee something more for my long fangs to shoot at. and now that the model is out any game i play against it that thing will be the first to go simply for being one of the ugliest models i have ever seen. really a big box with wings. but there is no reason to get so worked up about the dang things.

I don't really understand what all the anti-stormraven rage/pro-stormraven nerdgasming is about really. Its not that survivable nor is it all that killy. I'm tempted to say its not really worth the points, just a fun unit. Then again, it can make for a potent anti-tank platform, which is why I want three of them... but thats not really OP'ed when you consider that I'm fielding a Sanguinary Guard army.

A five-point rebuttal to the op.

1.) Welcome to the real world, how was the weather under that rock you've been living under for the last 2 years?

2.) The actual model for this thing is hideous or at best passable, so it's not like you're denied an awesome kit.

3.) The rules for this thing are impressive, but more than balanced by the enormous cost.

4.) Wolves get plenty of things no one else does. Best troops, best devastators, best scouts, a very unique and powerful fast attack, tons of extremely potent psykers, etc. etc.

5.) STFU.

I can't believe this thread is still going...

Just Dave wrote:I can't believe this thread is still going...

*whispers* Why did you post then, and its like the plague it comes back to haunt you. *whispers*
Jokes Aside. Storm Ravens are nothing to be afraid of its like saying that Space Wolves fear little childern. Just grab a lascannon and watch the Storm Raven crash into the Blood Angel Lines..

I think it's hilarious that anybody would complain that the Stormraven is hard to destroy considering it will never, ever get a cover save unless it's moving flat out. I can't wait for GW to release a Hydra kit so Guard players can make Blood Angels cry. Tears of blood.

Crap, tears of blood is probably a Blood Angels psychic power isn't it

Brother SRM wrote:I think it's hilarious that anybody would complain that the Stormraven is hard to destroy considering it will never, ever get a cover save unless it's moving flat out. I can't wait for GW to release a Hydra kit so Guard players can make Blood Angels cry. Tears of blood.

Crap, tears of blood is probably a Blood Angels psychic power isn't it

Most likely. I really want the Blood Angel vechiles like Land Raiders to accidently fall down and kill their own forces. XD

I like Pink fluffy bunnies and stuff .... lets all hug now

sweet now my vendetta can dogfight something lol i'll be sure to add skulls beneath the cockpit to represent aerial victories

Vendetta vs Stormraven isn't much of a match.

it's all about which goes first.

either the vendetta blasts the Raven with it's lascannons or the Stormraven shuts the vendetta down with it's MM(which can be fired while turbo-boosting)

^what about the blood angels bloodstrike missiles of bloodening?
s8 ap1 and 72" one shotters. probably more range than a MM

That too.

Locking this now, as it appears that the original poster has had a chance to breathe and relax and realize that the sky is not falling, but the original post has strong potential to draw more flaming responses.