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Except they enacted the oldest democracy in the world, which kind of vitiates that the foudning fathers were against democracy. Sure democracy may suck, but it-as Alby might say-stands on the balls of dictatorship in the range of least worst government for a majority of citizens.

Frazzled wrote:Except they enacted the oldest democracy in the world,

Who? George Washington the athenian?

whatwhat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Except they enacted the oldest democracy in the world,

Who? George Washington the athenian?

You mean Athens, Texas or New York?

The oldest continuous 'democracy' is the Manx Parliament. Formed in 979.

Sorry, real countries not girly boy nations.

Frazzled wrote:Sorry, real countries not girly boy nations.

Founded by vikings, yes, really girlie eh Frazzie.

Orlanth wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Sorry, real countries not girly boy nations.

Founded by vikings, yes, really girlie eh Frazzie.

Isle of Man? Really? Isn't that like the Hamptons, or Midway or llike my back yard?

Frazzled wrote:

Orlanth wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Sorry, real countries not girly boy nations.

Founded by vikings, yes, really girlie eh Frazzie.

Isle of Man? Really? Isn't that like the Hamptons, or Midway or llike my back yard?

It's like the indy 500. Small island, road circling it. no speed limits.

Kilkrazy wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

WARBOSS TZOO wrote:

mattyrm wrote:Mate, its just a ridiculous thing to say...

Alright, let's move back to the realm of the more likely to happen. Let's talk about gay marriage. For the sake of the argument, let's assume that the majority of the population are against it. (They're not, in the UK, so far as Wikipedia knows, but moving on...). Is it right for the majority to be able to keep the minority from being equal citizens?

Or, for something completely different, if the majority of the population wanted to ban immigration from islamic countries, would that be right and fine?

Or should there be something to hold back the tendency of the majority to act in its own interests and not in the interests of everyone?

So what you're really saying is...Resolved: Democracy is bad.

Of course democracy is bad. Churchill said so himself.

It's just that other forms of government are worse.

Well that was the very point I was trying to make, just as Winston said.

Sure democracy sucks, but what the hell else are we going to do? Same with capitalism, sure it sucks a bit, but socialism sure as hell doesnt work, and thats why im a Thatcherite. Better the devil you know and all that..

My point was exactly that. Im not disagreeing with that much of what the Warboss says, Im merely saying there isnt a better workable alternative, so whats the point in discussing odd events that wont happen?

whatwhat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

Orlanth wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Sorry, real countries not girly boy nations.

Founded by vikings, yes, really girlie eh Frazzie.

Isle of Man? Really? Isn't that like the Hamptons, or Midway or llike my back yard?

It's like the indy 500. Small island, road circling it. no speed limits.

No speed limits? I am liking this place more. Have they heard of the Gospel according to TexMex? Does Saint Frazzled and 100 weiner dogs need to rid them of snakes and/or squirrels?

Frazzled wrote:Have they heard of the Gospel according to TexMex?

They have. In the british isles it's known as "fried sick" though.

whatwhat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Have they heard of the Gospel according to TexMex?

They have. In the british isles it's known as "fried sick" though.

Dont listen to the Top Gear lads WW, ive ate at plenty of Tex Mex places in the states, and its swwweeeeet.

Refried beans, do kinda look like sick, but they taste nice.

mattyrm wrote:

whatwhat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Have they heard of the Gospel according to TexMex?

They have. In the british isles it's known as "fried sick" though.

Dont listen to the Top Gear lads WW, ive ate at plenty of Tex Mex places in the states, and its swwweeeeet.

Refried beans, do kinda look like sick, but they taste nice.

Yeah I'm taking the piss. I don't base my assessment of food on top gear thanks.

Refried beans are damn good.

Voting doesn't make a damn bit of difference anyway, because of electoral colleges. Feth it.

I say this as a convicted felon.

However, I think that there should at least be some sort of reverse grandfather clause. If you're convicted of a crime that no longer exists (Say, you were charged with posession of marijuana, and then marijuana becomes legal), then you should be able to vote (and should probably be given some sort of compensation, but that's another matter entirely).

Frazzled wrote:Except they enacted the oldest democracy in the world, which kind of vitiates that the foudning fathers were against democracy. Sure democracy may suck, but it-as Alby might say-stands on the balls of dictatorship in the range of least worst government for a majority of citizens.

The founding fathers were in fact anti-democracy in the sense of democracy being direct democracy. In their minds the two greatest threats to the United States were Sectionalism and the Mob. They did not think that they were creating democracy. Democracy to them was equivalent to mob rule. They were creating a republic, to them something entirely different.

whatwhat wrote:

Yeah I'm taking the piss. I don't base my assessment of food on top gear thanks.

Frazzled wrote:Except they enacted the oldest democracy in the world....

You are adorable.

Albatross wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Except they enacted the oldest democracy in the world....

You are adorable.

Alby get off my balls! (I love that phrase now, thanks!)

Patent pending.

Parliament he say "no" to votes for convicts.

What is the European Court going to do about that?

Kilkrazy wrote:Parliament he say "no" to votes for convicts.

What is the European Court going to do about that?

Send a strongly worded letter?

I don't see the EU going after other member states who just ignore them (I'm looking at you France and Spain!). Though since it is the UK they will probably go in with both guns blazing.

I still don't really see why the tories suddenly said it was "too late" to pull out of the EU... surely it is just a case of giving them the finger and pulling our people back across the sea? Something that can be done at any time.

Take that European Dictat!

Let the compromising begin!

mattyrm wrote:And for the record, yes, I think that criminals should absolutely be banned from voting.

FOOL! Her Majesty has been letting Australians vote for years!

Emperors Faithful wrote:

mattyrm wrote:And for the record, yes, I think that criminals should absolutely be banned from voting.

FOOL! Her Majesty has been letting Australians vote for years!

Shes too soft is Lizzie... gawd bless er!

Frazzled wrote:Except they enacted the oldest democracy in the world, which kind of vitiates that the foudning fathers were against democracy. Sure democracy may suck, but it-as Alby might say-stands on the balls of dictatorship in the range of least worst government for a majority of citizens.

Nah, that's a weak claim. Lots of democracies achieve the standard of "worst government for the majority of citizens". India is a fantastic example, so is Brazil, and, really, the United States. What you're talking about is a myth in which democracy is equivalent to representation, and representation is equivalent to satisfactory governance. Most people are average, and average isn't very good. People that aren't very good are unlikely to know what they want, even as they vote for it. Democracy is a means of control, nothing more; though it is better at achieving control than authoritarianism.

Either way, no, that fact the founding fathers founded a succesful democracy does not indicate that they thought was the best possible system of government, it only indicates that they though it was the best available to them. This is exactly what Tzoo has been claiming, but you, as usual, don't bother to read.

whatwhat wrote:

Frazzled wrote:Have they heard of the Gospel according to TexMex?

They have. In the british isles it's known as "fried sick" though.

'Britain this, Britain that...'

Guess I hit a nerve with that one.

You're right. I quite like Tex-Mex food.

whatwhat wrote:Guess I hit a nerve with that one.

No, you mocked him for being too British in another thread, and now he is "returning" fire.

You should grow thicker skin if you're going to snipe.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Albatross wrote:You're right. I quite like Tex-Mex food.

Only parts of it are good, the Chalupa (nonT-Bell) is awful, for example.

Go with the Taco Pizza.