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Buddy of mine just got one of these, we played his first game using it a couple weeks ago and in turn one I got a lucky hit with my heavy destroyer and immobilized it on the other side of the board behind a tall building. I don't remember his loadout of weapons on it but the only thing he had that could hit me from that far away (we played a mission that deployed longways from each other in a triangle shape) was his bloodstrike missiles. I felt kinda bad for him but there was no way I was letting that thing get close to me if I could avoid it.

On a side note though, that was the ONLY time my heavy destroyers have ever been useful. Well, that and later in the same game when he exposed rear armor of his dreadnought to them. But it was about to get assaulted by tomb stalker anyway so it was pretty much a goner.

sourclams wrote:For a purely competitive environment, I think you would be insane to dedicate significant assets to an AV12 vehicle that is virtually impossible to block LoS to in a meta that almost ensures at some point fighting 20+ missile launchers.

If you can get around that, then by all means, take three.

Over simplification for the loss. First ask yourself versus a good player can you afford to fire every weapon at a Stormraven to bring it down? The answer is no you can't... You are going to have assault units all over your grill ready to charge. So when you except this fact you'll realize that the reality is you'll have some lesser portions of your long ranged AT targeting the Stormraven... It's survivability then goes way up and it can do what it needs to do. Really when you stop to consider you are fighting an entire army, not a single Stormraven, then you'll see why it has a lot of merit. You don't need three when one is more than enough to snuff you.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:

sourclams wrote:For a purely competitive environment, I think you would be insane to dedicate significant assets to an AV12 vehicle that is virtually impossible to block LoS to in a meta that almost ensures at some point fighting 20+ missile launchers.

If you can get around that, then by all means, take three.

Over simplification for the loss. First ask yourself versus a good player can you afford to fire every weapon at a Stormraven to bring it down? The answer is no you can't... You are going to have assault units all over your grill ready to charge. So when you except this fact you'll realize that the reality is you'll have some lesser portions of your long ranged AT targeting the Stormraven... It's survivability then goes way up and it can do what it needs to do. Really when you stop to consider you are fighting an entire army, not a single Stormraven, then you'll see why it has a lot of merit. You don't need three when one is more than enough to snuff you.

That's hardly true. If you're taking the SR + Unit + DC Dreadnought, you're looking at an easy 600 points investment in one AV12 model.

If everything starts on the table, can I afford not to shoot all my heavy weapons at the SR? If I go first, it's an easy kill, and will not require me to fire all my weapons. It will probably take 9-12 missile launcher shots firing upon it, which leaves me with all my other heavy weapons to fire at my next target of priority once it's immo/destroyed/exploded. If I go second, the SR will have turbo boosted 24" up the table and will be in position to assault next turn. Now I must hit it with all my firepower, else, as you say, I'll have assault units all over me ready to charge.

If the other player (opponent) goes first then hold it reserve. Simple really in my opinion.

200+ points for an av12 vehicle?

No way.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:If the other player (opponent) goes first then hold it reserve. Simple really in my opinion.

So now the first two turns will be my 2,000 point army list versus your 1400 pt army list. You've still got significant assets sunk into a vehicle whose fragility forces you into these sorts of aerobics.

They are not good whatsoever they suck and will not work well as a missile shot will pop them like tuna cans that and they are exspensive.

Considering the average stormraven from a BA army with dreadnaught and cc assaulty squad is about 600-700 points...

a SW army can fire 15 missiles from 3 long fang squads and still have some other unit somewhere doing doughnuts in their rhino on the table for giggles for the same points...

not very common but tau are out there. For the points you invest in a stormraven a tau player can put enough markerlight hits on your stormraven to make your cover save 6+ instead of 4+ with mediocre rolling from 2 broadside squads firing at you with twin linked railguns.... Thats 6 twin linked railgun shots where you only get a 16% chance for cover instead of 50% for a few less points than you spent on your SR+Dread+Squad inside. Some mediocre rolling on the tau players part will see 4-5 hits at ap 1 so most likely 3-4 penetrating hits in 1 round of firing.

IG anti aircraft battery can field 3 tanks with twin linked autocannons which deny you your cover save for 150-200 points less...

I am not saying the SR is terrible, but its not a unit to start on table in a competetive tournament setting that is 1850pts or higher. It is too many points in 1 target and there is no trick to getting your opponent to fire at it making it good for the rest of your army, at 1850 1/3rd of your army in points is most likely sitting in that 1 target. Yeah I know theoryhammer is not really warhammer but still this is just not a sound tactical move.

I shudder to consider the pointscost GKs will load into their 220 SR transport. I am sure it will approach closer to the 1k level.

Draigo, Librarian, 5 normally equipped Paladins (i.e., not trying to break the unit via point cost) will run 800-900. If you glue a Dreadnought onto the back, up it another hundred. A single GK Storm Raven could easily be 1200-1300 points in one AV12 basket.

sourclams wrote:Draigo, Librarian, 5 normally equipped Paladins (i.e., not trying to break the unit via point cost) will run 800-900. If you glue a Dreadnought onto the back, up it another hundred. A single GK Storm Raven could easily be 1200-1300 points in one AV12 basket.

Best deployment ever? "Ok, I'll place my Storm Raven here, everything's in it, your turn!"

If this thread was called "Landraider - Too big a risk?" then it would probably be dead by now because it's unlikely that many people would even consider debating the fact that it is simply not too big a risk.

The fact that many opinions are at least wavering suggests that the points put into the stormraven could be better used elsewhere and that it's effectiveness is based more on luck than it is with the landraider.

The idea that you almost have to put it in reserve if you don't get first go suggests to me that there are some glaring weaknesses where the stormraven is concerned.

I like to think of it this way: there are no models for TWC, but every SW player and their grandma is taking 3rd part models or sculpt/model their own just to get those wolves on wolves. Before the Stormraven model, not a lot of people are willing to make their own SRs. I've seen more people modelling their MotFs with conversion beamers on bikes AND people modelling autocannons on dreads.

If a unit is unquestionably good, even if there are no available models people will make a way to field them in a competitive setting.

ColdSadHungry wrote:If this thread was called "Landraider - Too big a risk?" then it would probably be dead by now because it's unlikely that many people would even consider debating the fact that it is simply not too big a risk.

The fact that many opinions are at least wavering suggests that the points put into the stormraven could be better used elsewhere and that it's effectiveness is based more on luck than it is with the landraider.

The idea that you almost have to put it in reserve if you don't get first go suggests to me that there are some glaring weaknesses where the stormraven is concerned.

it's not really a weakness. it's just a model that has to be used in a certain way for it to be effective.



you don't let a Wraithlord just advance into the enemy lines right out in the open. it's gonna die to a few krak missiles.

you don't Deep Strike Ravagers, but rather use their movement, fleet, and 12" charge to get into combat quickly.



the Stormraven isn't any different.

it's really simply.

you go first, deploy on table.

you go second, reserve it.


you always run the risk of your opponent seizing the inititive when you won first turn, but them's the breaks.

sourclams wrote:

Afrikan Blonde wrote:If the other player (opponent) goes first then hold it reserve. Simple really in my opinion.

So now the first two turns will be my 2,000 point army list versus your 1400 pt army list. You've still got significant assets sunk into a vehicle whose fragility forces you into these sorts of aerobics.

The Stormraven is anything but fragile. AV12 all around, can move flat out for the 4++ and still fire a twin linked weapon, immune to 2d6 AP versus meltas from deep striking assault squads. Statically they require many shots to take down. Sure one lucky shot can bring them down but that is not something I'm going to worry about in a competitive environment. A good DoA player will neutralize most threats coming in with close range melta fire. Right? Why does your best close combat unit(s) have to engage the enemy early on ?? Weaken them first then pull a KO for the win... That is a big part of what DoA is all about. The only army that really worries me is Tau with rail guns and marker lights but seriously how often do you ever see that anymore outside of friendly games ?? I think people in general are seeing through fallacious counter arguments such as these. You've got to come up with some better reasons and provide some valid counterpoints.

The point you keep ignoring is that your 1400 point army has to absolutely trounce my 2000 point army in the 1-4 turns before your AV12 'knockout' shows up to do its thing.

Reserving big chunks of your list more easily results in being defeated in detail, not in this hammer and anvil that you're claiming.

There is no reason to assume the Strormraven won't show up until turn 4 or 5... Sure that can happen but it's not something that's going to happen a lot. People are playing DW and daemons - same thing and to be honest I see them winning lots of games. It's more of a perceived weakness than reality.

Deathwing are guaranteed to have 50% of their squads show up T1, as are Daemons.

Stormravens lack any sort of Drop Pod Assault/Deathwing Assault/Daemonic Incursion rules.

By your "logic", Terminators never die, since 1s on d6s are relatively rare.

I played DoA, and I have one in my 2000pts list. I've not actually used it yet, and I'm not really expecting it to be amazing, because in a list with no vehicles and it being armour 12, it'll probably die in a turn if anything can shoot it.

However, my plan is to try to lock down or destroy all ranged anti-tank (or a good portion of it) before it enters the board on turn 2 or 3. With VV and assault squads I should be able to ensure there's either nothing left to hurt it, or it can outrange them. It'll also move flat out on the turn it comes on, and PoTMS something nice with missiles or kraks.

With a sang priest and tac terminators in it, I'm relying on it to apply pressure on those units I've not yet got in assault, or those I can't catch (for instance, when fighting eldar or another really fast army, like biker marines).

The sang priest will also have a huge bubble, due to the large base size. I think it's cool enough to make it work, and certainly fits my chapters fluff enough to make it work.

That's just it, it's not one Stormraven versus the entire opponent's army - you'll have your assault units to support the Stormraven.

Stormravens are not very good..............

sourclams wrote:For a purely competitive environment, I think you would be insane to dedicate significant assets to an AV12 vehicle that is virtually impossible to block LoS to in a meta that almost ensures at some point fighting 20+ missile launchers.

If you can get around that, then by all means, take three.

I have won several tournaments with one in my DoA list. It has worked very well for me so far.

as well as land raiders, a storm raven is the first thing aother player sees and wants to get rid of