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I was played a game recently versus Chaosilla - three dreads and three defilers. My Stormraven could pretty much outrange the entire CSM army so I systemically destroyed all six walkers over the course of the game never having to worry about being shot at in return. PotMS was useful and towards the end of the game I was able to pop two Chaos walkers a turn. Sure this is a very specific case but I think it helps to illustrate the potential brilliance of the Stormraven when you have the right set of conditions to take advantage.

Afrikan Blonde wrote:One thing I failed to mention is that the percentage should be multiplied by the number of rockets in the Dev squad. They are still not great odds but if we only look at one shot it's misleading. If I were playing a shooty army versus BA with a Stormraven I'd want three squads of Devs - one deployed in the middle and the other two out towards the short edges of the table with overlapping fire lanes - you don't want to leave any blind spots or else the Stormraven could come in from reserve and pull an alpha strike with no immediate threat. The Bloodstrike missiles outrange rockets and you could blast a Dev squad on entry from reserve.

Actually, if you're looking for odds of destroying a vehicle, you don't multiple the percent chance of success by the number of shots. That could give you a number >1, and doesn't take into account the potential to roll more than one wreck. What you have to do is find the probability that it fails each shot, and take the compliment of that.

Probability of wrecking with 5 shots = 1-(1-0.0651)^5 = 28.6%

I belive that models are allowed to at least move their entire base onto the board.


you place the model in BtB with the board edge and it counts as having moved 6" regardless of how far it actually had to move to get onto the board.



it's a moot point anyway, the Ravens base is only about 4.5" long(it's tail doesn't count)

The whole model has to be on the board. The tail DOES count as hull.

The only time you measure to the base is assaulting (per the skimmer rules), embarking, and contesting (per the IG FAQ about the Vendetta).

I believe there's a rules thread going on about this at the moment, too. (http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/350743.page)

Afrikan Blonde wrote:I think that within two years all Imperial chapters will have access to the Stormraven and if mobility continues to be a cornerstone to the game it will eclipse the landraider - it's cheaper and more powerful.

I disagree. While the stormraven is good, it is not a better termie transport than a LR. AV 14 is hard to crack. Your best bet is a MG, and by the time your using those it's delivering the termie cargo.

In terms of long range AT the raven is much easier to crack. A LC has a ~3.78% chance of destroying a LR and a ~11.06% of destroying the raven.

I played against the Stormraven for the first time this weekend. Armed with TL MM & PC and Bloodstrike Missiles. It was 1,000 points, I had Guard, my opponent was BA. Spearhead deployment. He had alpha strike and boosted his Raven into the squadrant adjacent to mine. He used POTMS to fired a Bloodstrike missile at my Manticore. It missed. My turn I got three shots with my Manticore, all three hit, one burnt the armor, one glanced and one penetrated. I roll for the penetrating and get a 5. Since it was 1,000 points, it seemed a bit too much at that level, but it was still very dangerous. I fear that thing more than a Land Raider.

Luckily all he had in it was a 5 man tac squad. Our scenario put a premium on scoring units in table quarters.

I would never take the Storm Raven over a Land Raider. First off, its without a doubt just a flying Land Raider with a simple role in mind= delivering dangerous assault cargo while providing fire support. It has tons of parallels (POTMS, Assault Vehicle, high rear armor to protect from assaults). It is counter productive in this role being that it is only AV 12.

AV 12 on a 60 point chimera with 70 pts of contents= good.

AV 12 on a massive 220+ pt flyer with 200-400pts of cargo= extremly bad.

Most armies can drop a stormraven with long range shooting in a single phase, leaving your assault element stranded on foot. A Land Raider, on the other hand, almost always needs to be taken out with short range weapons (melta), where it should be in a position to deliver its cargo anway. Someone has stated already, forcing to put the Stormraven in reserves means its contents could only see combat on turn 4-5 if at all. This, again is very bad. A Land raider can always be deployed first turn, and will then move 12" every turn to deliver its cargo.

Land Raiders have ample mobility and amazing protection for your precious assault units, and can provide decent fire support after they deliver their cargo (if they have not been destroyed by melta already). Storm Ravens are highly mobile, and have a wide array of weaponry, but offer poor protection, and are a MASSIVE target to be picked out by almost all anti-tank shooting. The flying toaster should never be used, ever. Waste of 70 bucks.

the Stormraven can turboboost for a 4+ cover while firing 1 weapon.

Av12 is surprisingly durable against long ranged weapons(especially all around)

Why is it "immune" to melta? Is the flying stand more than six inches long?

Grey Templar wrote:the Stormraven can turboboost for a 4+ cover while firing 1 weapon.

Av12 is surprisingly durable against long ranged weapons(especially all around)

Its admittedly durable against long range shooting, especially with a turbo boost save, but still not durable enough to justify the cost (nowhere near as durable as a LR from long range shooting). Enough determination and shots will bring it down


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kilkrazy wrote:Why is it "immune" to melta? Is the flying stand more than six inches long?

Immune to the melta special rule in its profile.

Not that big of a deal because meltas can still pen with 1D6.

Kilkrazy wrote:Why is it "immune" to melta? Is the flying stand more than six inches long?

For the same reason spacecraft can reenter the atmosphere, Ceramite Plating.

Multi-meltas(Melta range is greater then 6") and weapons that don't use the weapons range for melta(Banewolf melta cannon)

The Stormraven is, I think, very good for about two turns. But then, everything in your opponant's army will turn on it.

In an Apoc game, I outflanked it with a unit of GK termies (including Grandmaster) with an allied Sang. Priest in the squad. The grandmaster cracked apart a super-heavy while the rest of his squad killed a techmarine. The stormraven killed some scouts, and shot down the enemy disruptor beacon.

But then fire was returned. When you're shot at by an exorcist, you're not that likely to survive. Especially due to a slight mistake with the cover saves.

In the only other game I've used it so far, dozens of shots flew off it, but then it fell to a single plasma pistol.

While it's armour is high enough to keep most things from doing much, like the land raider, when something does get through, you can't do a thing.

In my view, it takes alot of firepower to down the Stormraven compared to it's cost and actual threat.

I'm pretty sure that the lower AV is made up for by:
1. The cheaper cost of the SR compared to the LR
2. The "effective vs melta" rule
3. That it can move twice as far as a LR in 1 turn, and over cover/units (gaining a cover save in the process)
4. That it can carry more than 1 unit

Andilus Greatsword wrote:I'm pretty sure that the lower AV is made up for by:
1. The cheaper cost of the SR compared to the LR
2. The "effective vs melta" rule
3. That it can move twice as far as a LR in 1 turn, and over cover/units (gaining a cover save in the process)
4. That it can carry a Death Company Dreadnaught

Fixed!

Stormrider wrote:I'm pretty sure that the lower AV is made up for by:
1. The cheaper cost of the SR compared to the LR
2. The "effective vs melta" rule
3. That it can move twice as far as a LR in 1 turn, and over cover/units (gaining a cover save in the process)
4. That it can carry a large, angry horde-blending machine!

Fixed for real now...

haha, I don't have the BA codex so I wasn't sure of all the rules, but the fact that it can carry a dreadnought is insane.

Just wait for GKs.

then it can carry a Dreadnought and Diversified 2 wound terminators with FNP!!!

I would like to reply on this topic concerning the Storm Raven. Yes they make an good troop transport but here is the following on what I have seen (or done myself) that effectively counter this vehicle.

1. It is too large of at target.

The size of the model plus the base makes it an easy target for us shooty armies. Regardless if I am running my DA,BA,SW,Generic Space Marine, my Obliterator Cult Army, my Eldar/Dark Eldar, or even my Tau (9 broadsides), I've got too much fire power designed in my armies to effectively neutralize this model. I know what the vehicle is capable of and must be gotten rid of because of their annoyance factor. Then I'll bait the Death Company (what I have seen so far when people are using the Stormraven for) with one or two expendable units.

2. You could have the Stormraven on reserve, however...

You just effectively gave me a means to blast away on any models that are on the board at start of the game play and or go for the objective -AND- you are at the mercy of the dice for rolling your reserves. When you get on the board I'll just blast you to oblivion with a wall of ML/LC into it.

3. You could simply ignore it.

What I have seen of late by those who have horde armies when they see one or two Stormravens in play is that they get their armies into close combat real quick, nullifying the Gunship mode of the vehicle. Yes I have seen Death Company eat face in hand to hand combat, but I have also seen them get swarmed under by a horde army in a counter attack.


The Stormraven has its merits if played right. I have one myself just because of the cool factor of the model, but I do not play it in my BA Army.

I went with the Land Raider instead because of its survivability to those shooty armies that I own and played against.

knowing the capabilities of the Tau weaponry, your partner should have opted to deep strike the stormraven. At the very least it still would have been able to come in on turn 4 anywhere on the board and fire weapons. That was a poor decision on your team-mates part.

Gornall wrote:

Stormrider wrote:I'm pretty sure that the lower AV is made up for by:
1. The cheaper cost of the SR compared to the LR
2. The "effective vs melta" rule
3. That it can move twice as far as a LR in 1 turn, and over cover/units (gaining a cover save in the process)
4. That it can carry a large, angry horde-blending machine!

Fixed for real now...

Booyah!

The number one thing with the Stormraven is that it needs to be filled with as much lethal cargo as possible. That means a Dred of some sort, and some sort of assaulting infantry.

I accept that starting Vendettas on the table w/o first turn might be optimal in many situations, since they are cheap, and critically, they have a Scout move. If you don't get a flat-out save for a Vendetta on turn 1, you have made a silly mistake. A Stormraven costs 50% more, does not get a cover save going second if it starts on the board, and (should) carry a nasty cargo. An opponent can reasonably shake a Vendetta and move on or even ignore it if there are more pressing targets. A Stormraven should and will draw a ton of fire, as it's the contents that make it nasty, and the contents will have a long slog across the board if it goes down on turn 1.

Mannahnin wrote:

If a Fast Skimmer (specifically; not any other Fast vehicle) moves Flat Out and is Immobilized, it crashes and is Destroyed instead. This applies both during its own turn and in your opponent's turn (p.71).

Is this a direct quote from p.71?

Most of that is from p 71, there's also a bit on p 5 of the 1.2 BRB FAQ

If they can't shoot you it doesn't matter.

the stormraven has PotMS too.


it is impossable to Stun it into uselessness.

For a purely competitive environment, I think you would be insane to dedicate significant assets to an AV12 vehicle that is virtually impossible to block LoS to in a meta that almost ensures at some point fighting 20+ missile launchers.

If you can get around that, then by all means, take three.

sourclams wrote:For a purely competitive environment, I think you would be insane to dedicate significant assets to an AV12 vehicle that is virtually impossible to block LoS to in a meta that almost ensures at some point fighting 20+ missile launchers.

If you can get around that, then by all means, take three.

Very true. In fact, I would guess that the best way to use Stormravens, if you feel compelled, would be to take three, and reserve them if you don't get first turn. 20 BS 4 Krak Missiles is about 5 penetrating and 2 glancing hits, with a 4+ cover save 2.5 and 1, which means at least 1 is making it across the board for turn 2 nastiness when they start on the board. Plus the stuff in the destroyed ones is mostly going to live and be around midfield.

Still not that great, it seems.

if i reserve them, the enemy has to deal with the 2-4 squads of Grey Knights with Teliporters.


those will be more then enough of a distraction for the Stormravens to come on and drop the Terminators.


i can be in the enemies face on turn 2 with PAGKs and the stormravens will be following hot on their footsteps.


the key is distracting the enemy.