Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2011/06/02 18:24:10
Subject: Black Templars - what would you like to see?
Cheaper Rhinos, upped WS for HQ/SB, as well as a few more special characters. Maybe another troops selection?
Keep the vows, and make them a bit more 'competitive'--most everyone uses AAC, and occasionally Abhor the Witch. I still think it'd be a nice vow to allow the BT to assault from deep strike, akin to Heroic Intervention.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/03 13:41:25
Humans were put on this earth to fart around, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
-Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.
-7k - 10k
2011/06/03 16:04:02
Subject: Re:Black Templars - what would you like to see?
Things like Zeal and Vows should certainly stay for the new codex. They should stay foot and assault based and be made well enough that they can be competitive in doing so.
I think that they should have some incentive to be foot based aside from pushing forward when shot at. Something that allows them to for go moving that allows them a charge at a unit getting within say 6+1d6" of dismounted squads would be interesting. Combined with Zeal you'd have to give a healthy distance around them or risk having them in your face rapidly.
I could also see them breaking the codex and mixing assault and tactical termies in a single squad. So seeing something like assault cannons with TH/SS termie squads would be unique.
I could also see them getting unique drop pods as well. Something like a multi-melta pod would help with the problem of assault based armies that want to deepstrike units in. If that sounds too OP, then maybe a missile pod might be more suitable.
2011/06/03 18:04:19
Subject: Re:Black Templars - what would you like to see?
the last time you shamelessly posted that thread, I almost added something to it, and then the Dakka warning thing popped up, informing me that it was over a month since the last person posted in the thread, so I didn''t. >_>
It was something along the lines of not liking the idea of having a drop pod vow. I can see it on a special character, but from the EC seemed a bit off.
I was also wondering if you considered re-working the vow (It's name eludes me at the moment) that gives your entire army an invuln save at the cost of cover saves. It was originally used to get your guys on foot across the board. I know that foot slogging isn't the way to go anymore, but that was something unique about the templar... when you went on foot, you dropped 50+ marines on the board. It'd be nice to be able to rework the vow and make that viable again.
2011/06/04 11:24:21
Subject: Re:Black Templars - what would you like to see?
the last time you shamelessly posted that thread, I almost added something to it, and then the Dakka warning thing popped up, informing me that it was over a month since the last person posted in the thread, so I didn''t. >_>
It was something along the lines of not liking the idea of having a drop pod vow. I can see it on a special character, but from the EC seemed a bit off.
I was also wondering if you considered re-working the vow (It's name eludes me at the moment) that gives your entire army an invuln save at the cost of cover saves. It was originally used to get your guys on foot across the board. I know that foot slogging isn't the way to go anymore, but that was something unique about the templar... when you went on foot, you dropped 50+ marines on the board. It'd be nice to be able to rework the vow and make that viable again.
Now that you mention it, I can see how it's a bit strange to have the Drop Pod thingie as a Vow, it really doesn't have too much to do with the mind-set of the marines. I was considering the invuln vow, but I didn't think of any good way to fix it back then. Perhaps something like this?
He is our Shield!
Fanatical beyond belief, the Templars surge forward, slashing and hacking at everything in their path, firmly believing that the Emperor protects them. This lets them shrug off the most grievous of wounds, wounds that would fell even a fellow Astartes of a lesser Chapter. Black Templars infantry, jump infantry and walkers always count as being in 5+ cover, but may never take a cover save better than 5+. Any enemy wishing to assault a unit under the effects of this vow counts as charging through difficult terrain.
Or we could simply take the current one, buff the Invulnerable Save to 5+ and make vehicles unaffected?
I'll repost my OP in the other thread so we can brainstorm without indulging in threadnomancy:
Spoiler:
AlmightyWalrus wrote:
NOTE: The term "Righteous Zeal test" in this context means a leadership test as per the "Righteous Zeal" rules.
The Emperor's Champion
Unit type: Infantry
Points: 120
WSBS S T W I A LdSv 7 5 4 4 2 5 3 10 2+
Wargear: The Black Sword, the Armour of Faith, frag grenades, meltabombs, crusader seals, bolt pistol
Special Rules: Independent Character, Eternal Warrior, Slayer of Champions, His will be done.
An Emperor's Champion must choose one of the vows below, for the points cost listed.
Accept any challenge, no matter the odds - 40 points
Abhor the Witch, destroy the Witch - 30 points
Let no blow go unanswered - 20 points
Let the heavens tremble! - 25 points
Options:
May master-craft any weapon for 5 points each.
May take any of the following for 5 points each:
Digital weapons
Defensive grenades
The Black Sword: This relic of the Chapter is invariably one of the Crusade's most potent weapons. It increases the Emperor's Champion's strength by 2. In addition, any wounds caused by the Emperor's Champion to special or individual characters in close combat always inflict instant death, regardless of the enemy's toughness.
The Armour of Faith: This relic armour is adorned with finely wrought catechisms of hatred, wards and prayers and is a relic of the Chapter. The loss of even one of these suits is a disaster for the Chapter, for few still live capable of creating a new one. This armour confers a 3+ invulnerable save at all times. Furthermore, any unit of which the Emperor's Champion is part is fearless.
Special rules:
Slayer of Champions: Ever since the first Emperor's Champion, Sigismund, strode forth on the battlefield, it has been the sacred task of an Emperor's Champion to smite the leaders and champions of the enemy. In any combat involving the Emperor's Champion and either a special or an independent character, the Emperor's Champion must direct all his attacks against the character. If there's more than one, the Champion chooses which one to attack. Note that this rule is in effect even if the enemy has a retinue or is an upgrade to the squad. The wounds done to an upgrade character or a character with a retinue when using this special rule cannot be allocated to anyone else than the character unless the character's unit has a special rule allowing this (I.e. "Look out! Aargh!" in Codex: Imperial Guard or similar), and any excess wounds caused are lost. (Design note: No, this doesn't work against nobz in boy squads and similar, as they're not special characters. This rule is simply intended to let the Champion attack things like Justicar Thawn, Creed and similar.)
His will be done:
Prior to combat, the battle-brother destined to become the Emperor's Champion recieves a prophetic vision of the Emperor, inspiring him to great deeds. The Emperor's Champion, and any unit he is attatched to, can never be hit on anything better than a roll of 4+ in close combat. Automatic hits are not affected by this special rule. Furthermore, the Emperor's Champion may reroll any rolls to hit and to wound, as well as to penetrate vehicle armour, in close combat. Against vehicles, his attacks always hit on a 4+ unless the normal roll would be better.
Vows:
Accept any challenge, no matter the cost: As current. 'Nuff said.
Abhor the Witch, destroy the Witch: Suspecting that there's a psyker present in the enemy army, the Black Templars rush forward, intent on destroying anything tainted by the warp. All Black Templars non-vehicle units gain the scout special rule. This rule can be confered onto dedicated transports as normal, with the exception of Land Raiders and Land Raider Crusaders. Note that this may not be used to outflank. In addition, anytime a psychic power is used, all Black Templars units must take a Righteous Zeal test. As opposed to normal Righteous Zeal tests, nothing happens if this test fails. All Black Templars units may nullify any psychic power cast that targets them or includes them in it's area of effect on a roll of 5+. If more than one squad is affected, you may only attempt to nullify any given psychic power once.
Let no blow go unanswered: Furious even beyond what's considered normal for a Templar, the Templars advance, their mind set on vengeance for their fallen. All Black Templars units called upon to take a Righteous Zeal test can choose wether to fail or to pass. Black Templars vehicles instead may fire on any enemy unit within 12" when any such unit causes at least one Black Templars model to be removed from the table, regardless of whether this model was removed as a casualty or not.
Let the skies tremble!: The Black Templars strike from their ships in orbit, annihalating everything in their way. Drop Pods, assault marines and terminators who deep strike may re-roll their reserve rolls. Furthermore, they may also reroll their scatter dice. Any Black Templars unit that deep strikes gains a cover save the turn they deep struck. Vehicles instead count as obscured.
I'm also currently working on a suggested ruleset for BT Chaplains which will hopefully be done later today, so stay tuned!
(BTW, I just realized that Digital Weapons on the Champion with my ruleset is just as stupid as digital weapons on a Gk Brother-Champ. )
Special Rules: Independent Character, Unmatched Zeal, Reclusiam Command Squad, Litanies of Righteous Hate, Holy Rage (Master of Sanctity only)
May take the following weapons and wargear for the cost indicated:
Melta-bombs - 5 points
Artificier Armour - 15 points
Adamantine Mantle - 30 points
May master-craft any weapon for 5 points/weapon
May replace Bolt Pistol with one of the following, for the cost indicated:
Power Fist - 10 points
Storm Bolter - 3 points
Combi-melta pistol (bolt pistol/infernus pistol) - 5 points
Combi-plasma pistol (bolt pistol/plasma pistol) - 5 points
Combi-flamer pistol (bolt pistol/hand flamer) - 5 points
Plasma Pistol - 15 points
Storm Shield - 5 points
May replace Power Armour, Frag and Krak Grenades and Bolt Pistol for Terminator Armour and one of the following, for the cost indicated:
Storm bolter - 25 points
Combi-flamer, -melta of -plasma - 30 points
If Terminator Armour is not chosen, may have one of the following:
Jump pack - 15 points
Space Marine bike - 35 points
A Master of Sanctity may replace his Crozius Arcanum with one of the following, for the cost indicated:
Crozius Hammer - 20 points
Crozius Glaive - 15 points
Relic Crozius - 10 points
Special Rules:
Litanies of Righteous Hate: While all of the Emperor's Chaplains are able to rouse extreme hatred of the enemy in their brethren, Chaplains among the Black Templars, being the most zealous of zealots, have perfected this art during the never-ending Crusade. Once during each assault phase (including your opponent's) after assault moves are made but before blows are struck, a Chaplain with this special rule may take a Leadership Test. If successful, all friendly units within 12" of the Chaplain may reroll hits and wounds during this assault phase. If a unit that already has the ability to reroll hits or wounds is affected by this rule, it's members may instead increase their strength by 1 for the rest of the assault phase, just as if they benefited from the "Furious Charge" USR (note that their initiative stays the same). If the Chaplain's unit charged an enemy unit, the Chaplain and his unit automatically benefit from this special rule (you may still test to affect nearby friendly units though).
Holy Rage: The Master of Sanctity, being among the highest ranking Chaplains in the Chapter, is privy to the full accounts of the Black Templars' recorded history. As such, he can draw inspiration from the past deeds of the Chapter to go into a frenzy in close combat, smiting the enemies of the God-Emperor with his rage. If the Master of Sanctity loses combat, the fallen Brothers inspire an even greater fervor in the Chaplain, spurring him to deeds of Legend. For every casualty a Master of Sanctity loses combat by, he immediately attacks against a unit he is locked in combat with. Furthermore, a Master of Sanctity that passes his test for the Litanies of Righteous Hate (see above) is granted an extra attack during the same assault phase, resolved as normal. If wielding a two-handed weapon or a Storm Shield, the Chaplains gains no extra attack, as he is hindered by his wargear.
Wargear:
All Crozius weapons are power weapons, in addition to their other bonuses.
Crozius Hammer: A Crozius Arcanum in the shape of a maul or warhammer, this holy badge of office counts as a (two-handed) Thunder Hammer that always strikes at S10.
Crozius Glaive: This spear-like Crozius is tipped by a power blade, held up by an Imperial Aquila. It's tip deals death to those who oppose the Emperor's will. A Crozius Glaive is a 2-handed power weapon. A wielder of a Crozius Glaive gains the Counter-attack USR (note that this only applies to the Chaplain, not to any unit he is currently part of). In addition, successful invulnerable saves taken against wounds caused by a Crozius Glaive must be rerolled. This represents the holy spear piercing even the most potent of charms and shields.
Relic Crozius: A relic from the Chapter's past, this Crozius has a ranged attack that may be used in the shooting phase. For all intents and purpouses, this is the same as firing a ranged weapon. R6" S6 AP3 Assault 2 (Design note: Yes, I ripped it straight from Ultramarines: The Movie. Sue me!)
As per my normal modus operandi I'll leave it up to my fellow Dakkanauts to decide what a fair initial price would be for the model(s).
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2011/06/04 15:54:05
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
2011/06/05 05:24:26
Subject: Black Templars - what would you like to see?
Honestly, if I was going to run a Black Templar Army...I would just use the Grey Knights Codex at this point in time.
Sure there are things that aren't totally perfect with it, but essentially a purifier list could easily fit within the realm of Black Templar structure...but I digress.
I foresee any update to the BT 'dex taking a lot of pieces of the GK bandwagon and then take a few things out and add a few things in. Take out the heavy psyker influence and toss in more barbarism and then remove some of the wacky AM tech and more pragmatic things. Anyway...just my .02
stay hip
2011/06/05 07:18:42
Subject: Re:Black Templars - what would you like to see?
seanzor wrote:Honestly, if I was going to run a Black Templar Army...I would just use the Grey Knights Codex at this point in time.
Sure there are things that aren't totally perfect with it, but essentially a purifier list could easily fit within the realm of Black Templar structure...but I digress.
I foresee any update to the BT 'dex taking a lot of pieces of the GK bandwagon and then take a few things out and add a few things in. Take out the heavy psyker influence and toss in more barbarism and then remove some of the wacky AM tech and more pragmatic things. Anyway...just my .02
Why would you bother with the GK Codex when there's a perfectly competitive BT Codex? In my mind that's as despicable as the guys who play their Ultramarines as Blood Angels.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
3000pts - Hell Guard
2000pts - The Scholars 
-7k 
- 10k 
