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I was inspired to propose this question upon examining the potential competitive Black Templars builds and finding them disappointing.

It seems like a cool templar chapter would excel at well, crusades, so to speak: spearheading into enemy lines to carve everybody up while support units shot whatever's left. As of now that isn't necessarily the best build for the Templars. So...

Obviously, their codex is out of date, which makes them limited. So how would you mold the general "feel" and intention of the new Black Templars codex?

I, myself, would like to see them get some good spearhead units, like Assault Marines getting extra attacks or Initiates getting extra power weapons. Who knows.

Although, the current codex sort of does this with vows and Land Raider Crusaders but everything is too expensive points-wise to be viable. Still, shooty templars still seem to be the best competitively.

Anyway, thoughts on the general future of the Templars?

I would like them to get some cool bike options, I think having a unit of bikes that can act as line breakers while the main footslogging force charges up would be cool.

Ah! I second that. Templar bike spearheads would be epic.

Sword Brethren that are/stay different from Sternguard/Vanguard veterans, and no devastator squads. Why? HEY, ROBOUTE! WE USE YOUR CODEX AS TOILET PAPER! That's why...

No, but seriously, Sword Brethren that are radically different to the current 5th ed veterans. Preferrably something that emphasizes the non-codexishness of the Black Templars.

sigh...

I really don't see much, outside of a couple outdated rules that were addressed by the FAQ, that requires a real update. Maybe my battlebuddy has just fallen into the perfect combo, but a lot of people have real issues fighting his Black Templars.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:sigh...

I really don't see much, outside of a couple outdated rules that were addressed by the FAQ, that requires a real update. Maybe my battlebuddy has just fallen into the perfect combo, but a lot of people have real issues fighting his Black Templars.

Oh, so we're just gonna keep using our 4th Edition Codex forever, because we're not completely pushover like some other 4th edition 'dexes. We're not supposed to wishlist anything like other people have done for other armies, because we "don't need it"... right?

Aye, I'm not saying the Templars aren't feasible, but an update to make them more... templar-ish would be nice. Modernize their niche in the 40k gameplay universe so to speak.

And newer, unique sword brethren would be awesome.

I agree with this. Sword brethern need to be to space marines what Wytches are to Dark Eldar - i.e. the most kick face close combat unit. EVER.

I wonder if Helbrecht next edition will allow them as troops? (a'la Dante and Sanguinary Guard).

I may have just wet my pants.

liam0404 wrote:I wonder if Helbrecht next edition will allow them as troops? (a'la Dante and Sanguinary Guard).

That'd be AWESOME.

Also, wouldn't mind seeing a few more special, named characters. I know the BT fluff has gotta have more than 2 notable people. At least, I hope so.

Well first get everything to 5th ed standards (smoke launchers, grenades, WS 6 Marshalls etc)

As for the Sword brethren, I really like the veteran skills to represent their experience, so I'd say keep that in. Black templars have always seemed to me to be the "veterans" of all the marines because they fight constantly. Possibly even WS 5 for the Sword brethren.

Helbrect should definitely be able to take the "Sword Wing" and give him something else to stand out form the crowd, Dante has tactical precision and hit and run, Calgar and Kantor all ahve their unique traits to represent their command ability Helbrect needs something as well.

The Emperor's champion should have WS7 and the ability to challenge enemies to duels where the two just fight and no one can interfere.

yeah, that would be cool

Cavalry mounted on mecha horses ala Empire Engineer. You could do them now, actually, and use the SW dex, just count them as Thunderwolf cavalry.

Various witchhunting equip, crossbows and that from the WH dex.

Initiates carrying ammo drums/power cells to give Heavy Weapon blokes Relentless.

A bloody massive plastic kit for an extraordinary unit that's never even remotely been hinted at in the fluff before.

At least one of these suggestions is a troll :3


Automatically Appended Next Post:
...actually, a Slow And Purposeful dev squad, with ammo-carrying Initiates accompanying gunners with the old 2E Devastator legs with the crenelated greaves would look pretty awesome. Especially if it has mostly short ranged weaponry, make into like a siegebreaker unit. I was building something like this (below) for my counts-as-BT army until I found out they didn't have Devs:

EmilCrane wrote:Well first get everything to 5th ed standards (smoke launchers, grenades, WS 6 Marshalls etc)

Smoke's been FAQ'd already.

I am looking into starting BT now, and I agree with alot of points above. But I do feel like they should be more CC related. Thats just what I think of when I think Templars. Unfortunatly I have never had the pleasure of seeing a BT army fielded. So I can't really accuratly judge how they are now.

AlmightyWalrus wrote:

EmilCrane wrote:Well first get everything to 5th ed standards (smoke launchers, grenades, WS 6 Marshalls etc)

Smoke's been FAQ'd already.

Has it? I know that storm shields and CMLs and such have been but I didn't know about smoke.

The rules for Smoke Launchers have been FAQ'd, but you still have to pay for them. And Searchlights.

lindsay40k wrote:
Various witchhunting equip, crossbows and that from the WH dex.

That's actually a good idea. BT hate witches so much, so why shouldn't they have access to witch-hunting equipment? It doesn't have to be anything special, but maybe you should be able to equip your elite squads with Witch Bolts (like the ones from FF Deathwatch). Not sure what effect they should have in-game.

lindsay40k wrote:The rules for Smoke Launchers have been FAQ'd, but you still have to pay for them. And Searchlights.

Thats what I mean, this should be fixed, as well as the cost of rhinos.

Initiates that are fleet and have furious charge. I think that would fit there fluff quite well

Marshall Ragnar wrote:Initiates that are fleet and have furious charge. I think that would fit there fluff quite well

it really would, but I think the current righteous fury is better than fleet, with both they would be a bit OP

I would want to see a land Raider Crusader that's cheaper then the one in the SM codex. We invented the thing, we should get a discount or something,

I would like to see more options throughout the codex. For instance, more than one troop choice, more heavy and elite options, and more characters. Also, a better emporer's champion and sword brethren would be awesome.

We've got Draco (Games Day figure, 2000) as another character, albeit a hard-to-find one.

Keep the vows, but scrap the "Uphold the honor of..." vow and replace it with "Death from the skies, Brothers!"--units entering combat via deep strike/drop pods may assault enemy units upon the turn they arrive via deep strike/drop pods. Just an idea, haha.

Sword Bretheren with Str 5/ WS 5 or something along those lines would be a help, as would full access to their armory--hell, they're the crusade's veterans. They're the ones who protect the head cheese. And speaking of...Grimaldus could stand to get beefed up, as could Helbrecht--Another wound and higher WS, respectively. I adore their points requirements, however. (Can't take either in a game of less than 1500).

Crusader seals need to stay in, as do neophytes. Naturally.

Ma55ter_fett wrote:I would like them to get some cool bike options, I think having a unit of bikes that can act as line breakers while the main footslogging force charges up would be cool.

How about giving the bikers lance options like Eldar shining spears? I'd love that. Fire first, then charge in with a S6 power weapon on the first turn they charge, plus with army wide preferred enemy, they can cut through units and have the slower templars mop up. Power weapon for the unit champion that is, and the others just get S6 lances for their first charge

timetowaste85 wrote:

Ma55ter_fett wrote:I would like them to get some cool bike options, I think having a unit of bikes that can act as line breakers while the main footslogging force charges up would be cool.

How about giving the bikers lance options like Eldar shining spears? I'd love that. Fire first, then charge in with a S6 power weapon on the first turn they charge, plus with army wide preferred enemy, they can cut through units and have the slower templars mop up. Power weapon for the unit champion that is, and the others just get S6 lances for their first charge

It would indeed be awesome.

Also some sweet dreadnaught options would be cool, buffing the BT ven dread would be a good start.

removal of all vows and a total reworking, such as vows on a unit by unit basis
removal of prefured enemy, they were never meant to be able to re-roll hits, this was added by 5th
More characters
Emp Champ WS7, and black sword returned to 3rd abilites (Power fist etc.)

Formosa wrote:removal of all vows and a total reworking, such as vows on a unit by unit basis

I disagree purely due to a conflict with fluff

Vladamyr wrote:

Formosa wrote:removal of all vows and a total reworking, such as vows on a unit by unit basis

I disagree purely due to a conflict with fluff

Seconded due to the practicality of trying to remember which unit has which vow over the course of a large game without any way to WYSIWYG it.

It's one thing remembering which two buffs a couple of Psykers have passed around this turn, but pretty much every unit being able to take an invisible upgrade raises all manner of problems.

lindsay40k wrote:

Vladamyr wrote:

Formosa wrote:removal of all vows and a total reworking, such as vows on a unit by unit basis

I disagree purely due to a conflict with fluff

Seconded due to the practicality of trying to remember which unit has which vow over the course of a large game without any way to WYSIWYG it.

It's one thing remembering which two buffs a couple of Psykers have passed around this turn, but pretty much every unit being able to take an invisible upgrade raises all manner of problems.

.... pen and paper works wonders.

But I think you lot Misunderstood.
I meant, Remove current Vows AND rework them, as in "back to the drawing board"
because currently, everyone takes "accept any challenge"

The Emp Champ needs a slight buff too, Or just give him "Challenge" back

EmilCrane wrote:The Emperor's champion should have WS7 and the ability to challenge enemies to duels where the two just fight and no one can interfere.

This is the best thing i have heard yet !!

What really grinds my gears, is that the current Grey Knights brotherhood champion, is EXACTLY what the Emperor's champion should be - i.e, if he goes down, he goes down fighting. That seems like a complete theft of BT fluff to me.