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Think of it like this.


all the GKs take the test at the same time and 1 roll is good for all of them. they all get the ID benifit for the FW, but only 1 test is ever made.

Are vindicare T3 or T4?

Either way best case scenario for being shot at is 3++ cover with a 6+fnp. They are a lot more deadly, but a lot less durable now.

Even at T4 a wagon full of shoota boys can drop a vindicare in 1 turn, or lootas.

Speaking of lootas its not hard to keep a scouting jump infantry unit off lootas. They can't end their scout move within 12" of an ork model, so other units can stop the turn 1 charge.

schadenfreude wrote:Are vindicare T3 or T4?

Either way best case scenario for being shot at is 3++ cover with a 6+fnp. They are a lot more deadly, but a lot less durable now.

Even at T4 a wagon full of shoota boys can drop a vindicare in 1 turn, or lootas.

Speaking of lootas its not hard to keep a scouting jump infantry unit off lootas. They can't end their scout move within 12" of an ork model, so other units can stop the turn 1 charge.

Vindys are T4. One rokkit will overkill them, although they will get a 3++ cover or 4++ dodge save. Shootas can do a pretty good job too.

Wrapping up lootas so they cannot be assaulted first turn would be easy. grey knights are going to have fewer units, so they will have to deploy their interceptors before the ork player has to deploy his lootas, then he can add some speed bump unit in between to make sure they wont get charged. On the other hand, a tacked out interceptor squad going after some lootas might be a good thing as the ork player can counter attack on their turn and likely wipe the interceptors with minimal losses due to how isolated they will be and how concentrated the orks will be.

Exergy wrote:

schadenfreude wrote:Are vindicare T3 or T4?

Either way best case scenario for being shot at is 3++ cover with a 6+fnp. They are a lot more deadly, but a lot less durable now.

Even at T4 a wagon full of shoota boys can drop a vindicare in 1 turn, or lootas.

Speaking of lootas its not hard to keep a scouting jump infantry unit off lootas. They can't end their scout move within 12" of an ork model, so other units can stop the turn 1 charge.

Vindys are T4. One rokkit will overkill them, although they will get a 3++ cover or 4++ dodge save. Shootas can do a pretty good job too.

Wrapping up lootas so they cannot be assaulted first turn would be easy. grey knights are going to have fewer units, so they will have to deploy their interceptors before the ork player has to deploy his lootas, then he can add some speed bump unit in between to make sure they wont get charged. On the other hand, a tacked out interceptor squad going after some lootas might be a good thing as the ork player can counter attack on their turn and likely wipe the interceptors with minimal losses due to how isolated they will be and how concentrated the orks will be.

I think you are confused on how deployment works. Its been a few YEARS since people took turns placing units BTW. Player going first, deploys his entire army -infiltrators. Then player going second does the same, then both people infiltrate, scout, then second player rolls to seize... The more you know.

Of course, it makes "bubble wrapping" your lootas pretty easy... but why do they need bubble wrapping? You do have more than one unit of lootas right? TWO small units of lootas is better than one big one, and your nobs probably should be troops, and burna boys should be only one unit. Interceptors are a pretty good unit, but are not the only unit that can mess you up early. How much do orks like having a dredknight drop a large S7 rending blast template on them?

Nurglitch wrote:But a good player wouldn't let 5 infantry models multi-charge two different Ork mob, so what's the problem?

While I agree with you, the point still stands. Why did they ever think thats ok to put on a unit? Also, the Ork horde is still a popular build, and I can tell ya from experience that sometimes tables just arnt big enough to fit them on with enough space, also the same as depending on where the terrain is at on the table. The chances pop up enough with a horde army, that your just going to have 2 mobs close enough, at some point in the game, to allow those 5 guys the chance to crush a full mob+ on the table.

Thats just a serious WTF. Id honestly say, thats even more game breaking then when they allowed Njal or whoever to use MOTWW to just make things disappear

On a side note I had a conversation with a GW Blackshirt general manager the other day that said he was in on some of the play testing. He said that GK's play tested average against Orks, and Orks didn't have any problems more then against normal SM armies.

We'll see.

I have not read this entier thread, but you are asuming that when you meet grey knights thats= purgatory squads.

Unles they take doctor crow then they will be hard pressed to take both purgatory, troops and anti tank. What else the model count will be very low. With 30 orks, if you shoot them then it will not be mutch standing afterwads, and then charge in lose around 20 orks but winn the fight.

Purgation squads have the same anti-tank options other GK squads have.

the only real sacrifice is that they arn't scoring( and this is easily remidied with Grand Masters or Crowe)



they really are under costed. being cheaper then regular PAGKs, but having the same stat lines as last edition PAGKs and more cheaper options and abilities.

notabot187 wrote:
I think you are confused on how deployment works. Its been a few YEARS since people took turns placing units BTW. Player going first, deploys his entire army -infiltrators. Then player going second does the same, then both people infiltrate, scout, then second player rolls to seize... The more you know.

Of course, it makes "bubble wrapping" your lootas pretty easy... but why do they need bubble wrapping? You do have more than one unit of lootas right? TWO small units of lootas is better than one big one, and your nobs probably should be troops, and burna boys should be only one unit. Interceptors are a pretty good unit, but are not the only unit that can mess you up early. How much do orks like having a dredknight drop a large S7 rending blast template on them?

yeah I was posting very early in the morning after staying up all night. probably not a good idea. Still it shouldnt be hard for orks to prevent interceptors from getting a scout move then first turn charge.
I dont know if orks really fear the dreadknight, with a hidden klaw they should be able to down it easily right?

on average, a Nob with PK will put 1 wound on it per round which it then has a 33% chance of saving.


the Regular boyz need to be charging to wound it at all so that means the mob is taking fearless wounds each round.


They will Tarpit the Dreadknight for sure, but a GK player won't likely let it get caught, especially if it has a Personal Teliporter.

Grey Templar wrote:on average, a Nob with PK will put 1 wound on it per round which it then has a 33% chance of saving.


the Regular boyz need to be charging to wound it at all so that means the mob is taking fearless wounds each round.


They will Tarpit the Dreadknight for sure, but a GK player won't likely let it get caught, especially if it has a Personal Teliporter.

orkz are str 3
str3 can wound T6 on a 6

ok, but thats still not netting any wounds as the thing has a 2+ armor on top of it.

Grey Templar wrote:ok, but thats still not netting any wounds as the thing has a 2+ armor on top of it.

sure, but charging they are Str4 and still need a 6 to wound it.
I have seen marines take down a Talos, which has a 3+ save
boys have more attacks and the klaw. without support i dont like the knights chances.

personal teleporters only work once per game right and they cost a whole lot on a dreadknight IIRC

Grey Templar wrote:on average, a Nob with PK will put 1 wound on it per round which it then has a 33% chance of saving.


the Regular boyz need to be charging to wound it at all so that means the mob is taking fearless wounds each round.


They will Tarpit the Dreadknight for sure, but a GK player won't likely let it get caught, especially if it has a Personal Teliporter.

Honestly I'm not sure which is getting tarpitted, the ork horde whose cost is higher than the knight, and is decent at taking out non purifiers, or the cheapish knight who probably has better things to do than CC a horde


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Exergy wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:ok, but thats still not netting any wounds as the thing has a 2+ armor on top of it.

sure, but charging they are Str4 and still need a 6 to wound it.
I have seen marines take down a Talos, which has a 3+ save
boys have more attacks and the klaw. without support i dont like the knights chances.

personal teleporters only work once per game right and they cost a whole lot on a dreadknight IIRC

The personal teleporters only SHUNT once per game, the rest of the game they make the unit move like jump infantry IIRC.

notabot187 wrote:

Grey Templar wrote:on average, a Nob with PK will put 1 wound on it per round which it then has a 33% chance of saving.


the Regular boyz need to be charging to wound it at all so that means the mob is taking fearless wounds each round.


They will Tarpit the Dreadknight for sure, but a GK player won't likely let it get caught, especially if it has a Personal Teliporter.

Honestly I'm not sure which is getting tarpitted, the ork horde whose cost is higher than the knight, and is decent at taking out non purifiers, or the cheapish knight who probably has better things to do than CC a horde

depends on which one eventually wins and how long it takes.
if the DK makes it to combat with 3 wounds left and the PK nob + boys bring it down in 3 rounds of CC I think the boys win. The DK cant kill enough boys in 3 rounds even with the charge and a round of shooting to make that worth it unless he is very lucky rolling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

notabot187 wrote:The personal teleporters only SHUNT once per game, the rest of the game they make the unit move like jump infantry IIRC.

right right right, but they cant shunt out of combat right? I havent fully read the rules on shunt.

So nobs are bad, but whats better than a nob? A nob on a bike of course! I'm just curious, will the nob bikers get raped just as bad as nobs, or are they just less affective, or are they still total badasses?

loota boy wrote:So nobs are bad, but whats better than a nob? A nob on a bike of course! I'm just curious, will the nob bikers get raped just as bad as nobs, or are they just less affective, or are they still total badasses?

Just as badly.

yeah, the GKs will be wounding on 5s, but each wound is goind to be a dead Nob.

and there won't ever be as many Nob Bikers as on foot. or the army is going to be seriously small.

Not to mention that if the unit of GKs has an independant character or Justicar Thawn, then they can use hammerhand AND their force weapons at the same time, meaning they'll be wounding on 4s anyway. And if the unit has a Grand Master with rad grenades, it just gets worse for them. Multiwound models without significant invulnerable saves are just not effective against Grey Knights, period.

Yes, against specific units (Purifiers) Ork Mobs will get torn apart.

Your best option is to shoot them to hell (or Titan, whichever is worse).

Shoota boys, lots of shootas. I'd say rokkits for your special weapons.

Meched, with a KFF giving them cover all the time.

Lootas, bubble wrapped with shootas. Obviously squad leader Nobz with power claws for when you get into combat.

While it'll be a tough fight, remember that you can easily outnumber the GK three or more to one.

Shoot rokkits at Paladin. While they get a 2+ save, at least they won't get FNP and if they roll a 1 they die.

Chowderhead wrote:Punch them with Ghazzy, which as all ork players know, is the appropriate answer for all of 40k.

Titan? Punch it with Ghazzy. Dread? Punch it with Ghazzy. Swarmlord? Punch it with Ghazzy. Dreadknight? Laugh it into submission, then punch it with Ghazzy.

Do you mind if I Sig this?

Freman Bloodglaive wrote:Yes, against specific units (Purifiers) Ork Mobs will get torn apart.

Your best option is to shoot them to hell (or Titan, whichever is worse).

Shoota boys, lots of shootas. I'd say rokkits for your special weapons.

Meched, with a KFF giving them cover all the time.

Lootas, bubble wrapped with shootas. Obviously squad leader Nobz with power claws for when you get into combat.

While it'll be a tough fight, remember that you can easily outnumber the GK three or more to one.

Shoot rokkits at Paladin. While they get a 2+ save, at least they won't get FNP and if they roll a 1 they die.

I spam rokkits anyways. I realized that no matter what Im playing, AP3 str8 just seems to work on it all. Mainly my nerd rage seems to spam from that purifying whatever they get (do ALL GKs get that ability? Do they have to pay for it or is it standard? Again, I have yet to read the codex. Next week I get to) That just seems so holy crap overpowered.

Wouldnt it be smarter to bubble wrap lootas with grots? Or are you saying, its best to just shoot the piss out of them, try and kill some in CC and then when they die off, let the lootas rip into them one last time?

it's just Purifier squads which are an elite choice(unless the player takes Castallan Crowe when they become Troops)


they basically have the same stats and options of the Previous Codex's PAGK plus the Cleansing Flame Psychic power. they cost about the same as last editions PAGK too.

And they have an additional attack. Take Falchions and they each have 5 attacks on the charge.

Why protect Lootas?

Depending on the army build, a Loota squad is either 5 or really big. If it is 5, the 75 points you allocate per squad is not going to be a game breaker if the GK player kills them. In fact, that's a good thing if they go after the Lootas but not the Battlewagons if you run them.

For Loota essential armies, taking large amounts of grots is a good answer. Just remember to bring in two Big Meks with SAG as well.

Fafnir wrote:And they have an additional attack. Take Falchions and they each have 5 attacks on the charge.

Well, PAGKs last edition had 2 attacks(True Grit) so the difference is the Falchions.

I'll still miss my WS5.

WarOne wrote:Why protect Lootas?

Depending on the army build, a Loota squad is either 5 or really big. If it is 5, the 75 points you allocate per squad is not going to be a game breaker if the GK player kills them. In fact, that's a good thing if they go after the Lootas but not the Battlewagons if you run them.

For Loota essential armies, taking large amounts of grots is a good answer. Just remember to bring in two Big Meks with SAG as well.

Now that would be a fun list to play around with. SAGs a bunch of lootas and grots everywhere else. Doubt itll be close to competitive but that could so serious damage other wise. But you do make a good point, I play lootas in 5s so 75pts isnt a game breaker by any stretch. If the game came down to 75pts, it was a slaughter on both sides, and I like those kind of games