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Yeah, and the funniest part about it is you can give them Stormbolters for 2 points more than a bolter and actually make the firepower they have useful. I was really hoping they'd stick with the close combat warriors having WS4/BS3 and the ranged ones with a WS3/BS4.

All I want really for it; is an Inquisition tank more like a Leman Russ. Inquisition's focus has always been its infantry and HQs but I'd still like to see what sort of Unique tank they could field. (That isn't a SoB one)

H.B.M.C. wrote:But personally I want to hear more about these With Chunters. They sound ace!

Melissia wrote:Ah, poor HBMC, and his literacy problem. Hopefully someday we'll be able to pitch in enough cash to send him to finish his grade school curriculum so that he will be able to have more coherent conversations with us.

Just to clear this up: For everyone who can read the title, this topic is indeed about Withchunters, not Witchhunters. Who has the literacy problem now?

Back on topic, while Darnok expects Sororitas end of this year, stickmonkey and Captain Ventris expect them early 2012.

Ascalam wrote:I'm hoping on Shaq

100 Marines

vs

Shaq

Not even fair, 7'1" giant versus a hundred 1 1/2" plastic men. Super men, but little plastic ones.

1. Lets remain polite people.
2. I don't see any rumors here. Moving to discussion.

Melissia wrote:Oh come on, you got me all excited. And it's just some rumors from a dinky store manager.

Sounds boring. More special characters? I thought karazmov and celestine were enough, to be honest. Between now and 2013? Good to know. At least I know CSM are before them.

inb4 Manager is just a position you apply for, and is not involved in any way with the design process

Karazmov wasn't a "Sisters" character, but an Inquisitor who could be fielded with absolutely no attachment to the Sisters or Ecclesiarchy.

Well some 'news' is better than none.

Would love for the inquisition to have a large (or about the same size as the WH 'dex) role comparibly.
The GKs pretty much lost all inquisition units pratically.

Good riddance.
The Inquisition can get the hell off of 40k tabletop. They don't belong as anything more than an HQ/Advisor option for the Imperial Guard.

If you don't like them that much why are you in a thread that has something to do with them?

VikingScott wrote:If you don't like them that much why are you in a thread that has something to do with them?

Oh no, I like the Inquisition.

They just don't belong on the bloody tabletop. They're primarily behind-the-scenes operators, not sword waving loons. If they'd done the intelligent thing and made them an alternate HQ choice, unlocking Stormtroopers for Troops on Imperial Guard--we'd avoid them being shoehorned into the Grey Knights book like they were.

I've made that point a few dozen times. I also did not say "I don't like them".
So don't try to put words in my mouth.

Kanluwen wrote:

VikingScott wrote:If you don't like them that much why are you in a thread that has something to do with them?

Oh no, I like the Inquisition.

They just don't belong on the bloody tabletop. They're primarily behind-the-scenes operators, not sword waving loons. If they'd done the intelligent thing and made them an alternate HQ choice, unlocking Stormtroopers for Troops on Imperial Guard--we'd avoid them being shoehorned into the Grey Knights book like they were.

I've made that point a few dozen times. I also did not say "I don't like them".
So don't try to put words in my mouth.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth and I don't exactly follow you arround the forum so wouldn't known you said it a few dozen times.

But I can see where your coming from with what you've said.

But there are also militant Inquisitiors who prefer to run down there suspects as well as the behind the scenes puppet masters

VikingScott wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

VikingScott wrote:If you don't like them that much why are you in a thread that has something to do with them?

Oh no, I like the Inquisition.

They just don't belong on the bloody tabletop. They're primarily behind-the-scenes operators, not sword waving loons. If they'd done the intelligent thing and made them an alternate HQ choice, unlocking Stormtroopers for Troops on Imperial Guard--we'd avoid them being shoehorned into the Grey Knights book like they were.

I've made that point a few dozen times. I also did not say "I don't like them".
So don't try to put words in my mouth.

I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth and I don't exactly follow you arround the forum so wouldn't known you said it a few dozen times.

But I can see where your coming from with what you've said.

But there are also militant Inquisitiors who prefer to run down there suspects as well as the behind the scenes puppet masters

And do you know how rare those types of Inquisitors are?

The Inquisition is full of hundreds upon thousands of Inquisitors. From Acolytes to Inquisitor Lords.
Most of the "militant" individuals are Acolytes or recently elevated full Inquisitors who have been attached to a Guard Command structure. They don't really have the authority or political clout to take control of an entire army--but might be able to call in Inquisitorial Stormtroopers.

Once an Inquisitor reaches a certain point(a hundred years old or thereabouts) they tend to retire more and more from fieldwork, leaving their operatives and agents to do the dirty work.

Both of you actually have a point. Indeed those types of Inquisitors are extremely rare, but people still enjoy playing them tabletop. I've got an Inquisition themed IG army with an Inquisitor leading the show.

If you are truly speaking of rarity, you won't find a reflection of that in a tabletop game. People play things because they like the fluff, army, looks, or whatever. Not because of how common or uncommon they are. Look at all the Space Marine players out there. You'll find 5 out of every 10 players at least playing Space Marines from my experience. Fluff terms, Grey Knights should be even more rare.

I guess my point is that people play to seperate themselves from reality, and that in essence is what RPGs are about. Those come in the form of video games, P&P RPGs, tabletop RPGs, strategy RPGs like 40k and WHFB. In all of these examples, you won't find everyday Joe doing his everyday thing. You won't find an RPG about a guy who goes to work, comes home, has dinner then goes to bed. It's always about something grand.

Back on track, I do however wish that Inquisition Stormtroopers were able to be used as troops just like the Daemonhunters codex.

Lord_Astaroth wrote:Both of you actually have a point. Indeed those types of Inquisitors are extremely rare, but people still enjoy playing them tabletop. I've got an Inquisition themed IG army with an Inquisitor leading the show.

And that's one of those things that bothers me, personally.
What is it with everyone wanting an Inquisitor leading their army? Inquisitors are mostly crap at tactical decisions. Look at Inquisitor Lok's expedition to Anphelion.

The whole "battlefield" Inquisitor idea really should just be reworked to be an advisor who can gives options for veteran squads to be "Inquisitorially trained"--giving them better weaponry options or things of that nature.

If you are truly speaking of rarity, you won't find a reflection of that in a tabletop game. People play things because they like the fluff, army, looks, or whatever. Not because of how common or uncommon they are. Look at all the Space Marine players out there. You'll find 5 out of every 10 players at least playing Space Marines from my experience. Fluff terms, Grey Knights should be even more rare.

Without rehashing the whole mess that has been done before:
The representation of Space Marines? Isn't actually unfluffy. Space Marines will almost always be involved in the Imperium's wars. The Space Marines don't really need to hold defensive positions, or anything of that nature. They're free to engage the enemy whenever they please, however they please.

Grey Knights shouldn't be on the tabletop unless there's Daemons. Period. End of story.

I guess my point is that people play to seperate themselves from reality, and that in essence is what RPGs are about. Those come in the form of video games, P&P RPGs, tabletop RPGs, strategy RPGs like 40k and WHFB. In all of these examples, you won't find everyday Joe doing his everyday thing. You won't find an RPG about a guy who goes to work, comes home, has dinner then goes to bed. It's always about something grand.

Back on track, I do however wish that Inquisition Stormtroopers were able to be used as troops just like the Daemonhunters codex.

You mean like they can in the Grey Knights book with Coteaz.

"Inquisition Stormtroopers" are gone, they're just Henchman Squads now it seems.

Kanluwen wrote:Karazmov wasn't a "Sisters" character, but an Inquisitor who could be fielded with absolutely no attachment to the Sisters or Ecclesiarchy.

Karamasov was a Witchhunter Inquisitor (Ordo Hereticus) in a Witchhunter Codex, sounds about right. Now he can only be fielded with the Ordo Militaris of another Inquisition branch ... and a bunch of Xenos, sounds wrong to me.

That said, I like the Inquisition to be part of one or two armies, because they are the most divers and characterful HQ in the game. And I want the Sororitas Codex to be focussed on new Ecclesiarchy units, so they get their own character, not a copy/paste of the Grey Knight Codex.

Of course Space Marines will be involved in every major Imperial battle, I was just explaining the ratio of Guardsmen to Marine, and it's gotta be an unfathomable ratio. Also, yes, you are correct that Coteaz gives henchmen as troops choices, but they do not have a BS4. It's only a 3, plus they don't get the extra wargear (that I admittedly don't use in a game). The henchmen don't get to deepstrike, don't carry targeters, or frag grenades. You can of course give them hot shot lasguns.

That being said, for my Grey Knights, I'll be using my Wargames Factory greatcoats as "Stormtrooper Henchmen" if I need to cut the points while increasing my army size.

Kroothawk wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Karazmov wasn't a "Sisters" character, but an Inquisitor who could be fielded with absolutely no attachment to the Sisters or Ecclesiarchy.

Karamasov was a Witchhunter Inquisitor (Ordo Hereticus) in a Witchhunter Codex, sounds about right. Now he can only be fielded with the Ordo Militaris of another Inquisition branch ... and a bunch of Xenos, sounds wrong to me.

I'm aware of that. But let's face it--"Codex: Witchhunters" was really "Codex: Sisters of Battle--With Back-up Inquisitorial Action!".

Grey Knights should either have just kept the Ordo Malleus connection or had no Inquisitorial presence. There's no arguing that.

That said, I like the Inquisition to be part of one or two armies, because they are the most divers and characterful HQ in the game. And I want the Sororitas Codex to be focussed on new Ecclesiarchy units, so they get their own character, not a copy/paste of the Grey Knight Codex.

Again: they're really not "HQ". They're advisors and scholars, investigators and hunters. They'd make a great HQ attachment or an Elite choice for IG/SM.

Kanluwen wrote:Good riddance.
The Inquisition can get the hell off of 40k tabletop. They don't belong as anything more than an HQ/Advisor option for the Imperial Guard.

Says... you?

You realize that statements like this are probably what cause you the most grief, right?

Alpharius wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:Good riddance.
The Inquisition can get the hell off of 40k tabletop. They don't belong as anything more than an HQ/Advisor option for the Imperial Guard.

Says... you?

You realize that statements like this are probably what cause you the most grief, right?

And you realize it's a personal preference, right?

But for that matter...
I do not understand this burning need people seem to have with the Inquisition being on the tabletop.
Is it really that important that you can just have the option?
Because frankly, I would actually rather have them represented based on the way they're portrayed in the background. I don't want Inquisitors being Astartes Hero Lite; I want them to be more akin to the Eisenhorns, the Grummans and the Ravenors of the 40k universe.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

notprop wrote:I can't see GW going to the effort of creating a highly complicated and I assume detailed SoB plastic kit to just do a WD article?

I seem to remember some chat from Jes Goodwin recently describing the difficulties they have had in their attempts of making a workable SoB kit.

Nah sorry I'm not buying this one.

I'd put money this one is in fact true, we'll get a PDF but no new models.

We all know that, for whatever reason, GW has problems doing a plastic SOB kit.

We also know that WH are the 2nd oldest codex around (after Necrons) but have never been great sellers so GW is in no hurry to put out a new book. It also had a ton of old mechanics GW would like to get rid of (allies).

So I would bet good money GW is going to do another temporary codex (like they did in 3rd edition) and buy themselves another 2 years or so to develop SoB plastics or drop the range.

This is what I expect to happen too.

The particular army we are talking about simply has never had the interest and $$$-making ability so many others do have that are currently also in line to be redone, so GW has no reason to put them at the front of the line. Money talks, especially these days. Necrons, Chaos, Tau & Templars will all make them a lot more of it.

Kanluwen wrote:

But for that matter...
I do not understand this burning need people seem to have with the Inquisition being on the tabletop.

Probably because it's something that's been in the game since before the Horus Heresy was, and the imagery of the Inquisitor bringing righteous fire to the Heretics in person is something that is almost as iconic to the 40k universe as the Space Marine blazing away at the hip at some unseen enemy.

Because frankly, I would actually rather have them represented based on the way they're portrayed in the background. I don't want Inquisitors being Astartes Hero Lite; I want them to be more akin to the Eisenhorns, the Grummans and the Ravenors of the 40k universe.

Which are only a selection of Inquisitors, and by their own admission not typical.

If we're going this route, the Space Marines should be an ultra limited IG elites choice given their night mythical rarity in the actual battlefields of the 41st millenium.

Vaktathi wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

But for that matter...
I do not understand this burning need people seem to have with the Inquisition being on the tabletop.

Probably because it's something that's been in the game since before the Horus Heresy was, and the imagery of the Inquisitor bringing righteous fire to the Heretics in person is something that is almost as iconic to the 40k universe as the Space Marine blazing away at the hip at some unseen enemy.

And as people are so frequently loving to point out:
40k's changed since then.

Because frankly, I would actually rather have them represented based on the way they're portrayed in the background. I don't want Inquisitors being Astartes Hero Lite; I want them to be more akin to the Eisenhorns, the Grummans and the Ravenors of the 40k universe.

Which are only a selection of Inquisitors, and by their own admission not typical.

Eisenhorn and Ravenor are atypical, sure.

Grumman? Not so much. He's an Inquisitor from the Cadian sector--the Inquisition there takes a very 'hands-on approach'.

Ascalam wrote:I'm hoping on Shaq

100 Marines

vs

Shaq

It only takes a lowly servitor to toss a donut into a ravine, and Shaq would dive after it.

Kanluwen wrote:
And as people are so frequently loving to point out:
40k's changed since then.

Yes, but it's not something that was in the game and went away like Harlequin Land Raiders, World Eaters with Conversion Beamers, Squats or IG Jetbikes. It's been pretty constant since 1987 and through 2nd Edition, 3rd Edition, 4th Edition and now 5th Edition.

Grumman? Not so much. He's an Inquisitor from the Cadian sector--the Inquisition there takes a very 'hands-on approach'.

And then there should be a way to represent that. There are plenty of fluff examples of Inquisitors taking to the field of battle and leading forces to war. Yes, not all of them do this, but some do.

Vaktathi wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:
And as people are so frequently loving to point out:
40k's changed since then.

Yes, but it's not something that was in the game and went away like Harlequin Land Raiders, World Eaters with Conversion Beamers, Squats or IG Jetbikes. It's been pretty constant since 1987 and through 2nd Edition, 3rd Edition, 4th Edition and now 5th Edition.

You're right. It's not like that.

It's more like Astartes being criminals and malcontents, brainwashed and wearing power armor and acting as a kind of police force for the Imperium.
That is to say: they no longer operate in that way and have fundamentally been changed.

Grumman? Not so much. He's an Inquisitor from the Cadian sector--the Inquisition there takes a very 'hands-on approach'.

And then there should be a way to represent that. There are plenty of fluff examples of Inquisitors taking to the field of battle and leading forces to war. Yes, not all of them do this, but some do.

Taking to the field of battle? Yes.
Leading forces to war? Not necessarily. Even in the "Eisenhorn" books, the Inquisition holds back from taking full command.

Kanluwen wrote:

It's more like Astartes being criminals and malcontents, brainwashed and wearing power armor and acting as a kind of police force for the Imperium.
That is to say: they no longer operate in that way and have fundamentally been changed.

Except, they haven't. SM's haven't been portrayed like that since the 80's, that faded away even before 2nd edition came along. Inquisitors are still very much portrayed being able to lead armies and troops in current-use army books.

Taking to the field of battle? Yes.
Leading forces to war? Not necessarily. Even in the "Eisenhorn" books, the Inquisition holds back from taking full command.

And in other instances it does not. Such as the Siege of Vraks for example just off the top of my head.

Detective thriller novels from Black Library aren't the whole of up to date fluff and none of them are contradictory to Inquisitors leading troops into battle, they just don't usually cover the ones that do because that sort of story is generally easier told from a SM/IG perspective for a novel. The Inquisitors are available in army books for a reason, because they can and some do lead troops into battle.

Vaktathi wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

It's more like Astartes being criminals and malcontents, brainwashed and wearing power armor and acting as a kind of police force for the Imperium.
That is to say: they no longer operate in that way and have fundamentally been changed.

Except, they haven't. SM's haven't been portrayed like that since the 80's. Inquisitors are still very much portrayed leading armies and troops in current-use army books.

Okay, and?

There's far, far more examples of Inquisition operating as more akin to Special Forces advisors than bureaucrats seizing control based upon red tape.

Taking to the field of battle? Yes.
Leading forces to war? Not necessarily. Even in the "Eisenhorn" books, the Inquisition holds back from taking full command.

And in other instances it does not. Such as the Siege of Vraks for example just off the top of my head.

And yet in Siege of Vraks--the Inquisition still gave the Death Korps free range of their own operations.
The only thing the Inquisition was really in "command of" during the Siege of Vraks was individual strike teams.
Not unlike what we saw in Eisenhorn, actually...

Detective thriller novels from Black Library aren't the whole of up to date fluff. The Inquisitors are available in army books for a reason, because they can and some do lead troops into battle.

And the army books are outdated. Sad fact, but what can you do.

But hey, you don't think "detective thriller novels" are acceptable?
Let's go with "Cadian Blood" then. The Ordo Sepulturum Inquisitor within that book takes possession of a strike team from the 88th Mechanized, but still defers to the Cadians he is "commanding" when it comes to the matters of combat.
Let's also go with "Emperor's Mercy". Inquisitor Roth, while an investigator, does a bit of "leading troops into battle"...oh wait. He does the same thing that we see in "Cadian Blood".

Kanluwen wrote:
Okay, and?

There's far, far more examples of Inquisition operating as more akin to Special Forces advisors than bureaucrats seizing control based upon red tape.

In the current books, Inquisitors can be taken alongside GK Grand Masters or Cannonness's bringing along their own retinues and specialties to the force, or as the leader of an army. They can do either.

And yet in Siege of Vraks--the Inquisition still gave the Death Korps free range of their own operations.

They took over direct command and integrated themselves into the planning. They didn't go into tactical stuff, but they did get involved on the operational level (where many 40k games take place) and dictated all strategic matters.

The only thing the Inquisition was really in "command of" during the Siege of Vraks was individual strike teams.
Not unlike what we saw in Eisenhorn, actually...

Except when Hector Rex was put in direct command of the 88th Siege Army as its commander?

And the army books are outdated. Sad fact, but what can you do.

By what? BL books? Sorry, but they don't render Codex books obsolete.

Even if they did, they aren't contradictory in any way to Inquisitors leading armies.

But hey, you don't think "detective thriller novels" are acceptable?
Let's go with "Cadian Blood" then. The Ordo Sepulturum Inquisitor within that book takes possession of a strike team from the 88th Mechanized, but still defers to the Cadians he is "commanding" when it comes to the matters of combat.
Let's also go with "Emperor's Mercy". Inquisitor Roth, while an investigator, does a bit of "leading troops into battle"...oh wait. He does the same thing that we see in "Cadian Blood".

Again, these are BL books that cover specific instances, they don't cover the whole breadth of the Inquisition and certainly don't override GW Design Studio stuff.


EDIT: Just because Black Library doesn't have a book with Inquisitors directly leading an army doesn't mean it doesn't happen. It just means that the Black Library hasn't written about it, but the codecies and rulebooks definitely have.

Kanluwen wrote:Good riddance.
The Inquisition can get the hell off of 40k tabletop.

I wish you would shut up sometimes Kan.

Stop telling people what armies they can and cannot have.