Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

PraetorDave wrote:There is no such thing as tactics. Just writing a list, deploying, and rolling dice.

+1 for great justice!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

thehod wrote: Wamachine is a better tactical game than 40k.

Well, I suppose even things that are patently true can still be controversial.

C.S Goto is actually pretty entertaining...

He's very entertaining, if only in the same way watching people face plant off skateboards is entertaining.

a Looted Wagon is a good transport option!

Lictors, if used properly, can be lethal.

Mat Ward isn't THAT bad.

Carnifexes are better than Trygons at some things (like long-ranged fire support and tank hunting).

3rd edition Daemonettes are ADORABLE! (No, I'm not a fangirl).

Chapterhouse is technically illegal (but still awesome).

Blood Angels are not THAT overpowered.

Pyrovores are great in Cities of Death.

White Dwarf is a great magazine.

Chuck Norris is a wimp.

The Nemesis Dreadknight is an OK model.

Thousand Sons are quite good.

GW needs to get Andy Chambers back...and fast!!!

Squigsquasher wrote:

Carnifexes are better than Trygons at some things (like long-ranged fire support and tank hunting).

Yeah, they're better at long range fire support, but it doesn't mean they're worth it in that role or even good. A guardsmen is better than a Grot in CC but it doesn't mean Guardsmen are good in CC. Likewise, for Tank Hunting, assuming both the Trygon and Carnifex have dual scything talons for rerolls, a Carnifex is inflicting an average of 1 destroyed/explodes result against a rear AV10 tank and hitting on 4's with 4 attacks while a Trygon with 6 attacks is inflicting an average of 1.083 under the same circumstances, 8.3% better, with 50% more survivability.

the deceiver is the laughing god

and death korps are just normal guard

Librius Machina wrote:He's very entertaining, if only in the same way watching people face plant off skateboards is entertaining.

It's not that his STORY is bad, it's that he's using the wrong bloody setting.

For me?

-Battlefleet Gothic is a much better game.
-Vehicles aren't overpowered, infantry is underpowered.
-Warhammer 40k isn't THAT expensive as a whole.
-Shooting needs to be deadlier, while assaults need to be more decisive.
-Snipers need to be better.
-The game almost never lives up to the fluff.
-Apocalypse is almost worthless without either: a) a tight knit gaming group or b) a well thoutht out, well planned story.
-Grey Knights & Inquisition should have been a Harlequin~esque add on to various Imperial forces.
-GW should do more global campaigns.
-There should be more focus on campaigns in general, and these campaigns should actually affect fluff. (Even a little note in the BRB about one of them would make me happy!)

ChrisWWII wrote:
-Warhammer 40k isn't THAT expensive as a whole.

while i agree on everything else, this is completely wrong.
the AUS dollar is buying something like $1.03US, but your battle forces cost $90, ours cost $150!

if you had to pay an extra $60 for a battleforce youd be pretty cheesed

but it is an expensive hobby which just means sometimes we cant afford shimp on the barby, or a shiny new squad

[edits for spelling]

Matt ward should make his next codex roll D7s

^^ It's only ridiculous for Australians thanks to weird pricing, but I am one of those who hold that in comparison to other hobbies, Warhammer 40k is at the same level as far as costs though.

40k is rather cheap compared to many other hobbies. Compare it to paintball. $120-450 for a halfway decent marker, $150 nitro tank, $60-120 hopper, $50 mask, $40 Pack+tubes, another $50 on stuff like cleaning tools and the like, and that's just to get started. Then you're looking at $100-200 *every* time you go play on food, air, and most especially paint at roughly $50 per box on the cheap side for decent paint, not to mention travel time and gas to the field, repairs, etc.

Mech is not king in the 5th edition. Look! there are nids for example, no vehicles there.

It is possible to make a competive foot-slogging Eldar list.

Grey Knights should be Excommunicate Traitoris for mass genocide against other space marines chapters and humanity.

I heard Matt Ward was re-doing the 40k rules.

redeyed wrote:I heard Matt Ward was re-doing the 40k rules.

He re-did Fantasy and it was better for it. I wouldn't mind seeing his take on 6th edition 40K.

GW is just a miniatures company and uses codex/rules creep and associated human nature to keep people buying new figures.

I'm not sure if this is controversial or not, but it was a big debate at my FLGS:

AoBR is a better Ork battleforce than the Ork battleforce

Ultramarines deserve more respect.

Squats belonged in the WH40k universe and should never have been removed.

Space Wolves and Blood Angels are over-hyped.

DarkDrgon wrote:I'm not sure if this is controversial or not, but it was a big debate at my FLGS:

AoBR is a better Ork battleforce than the Ork battleforce

Yes.

Vaktathi wrote:40k is rather cheap compared to many other hobbies. Compare it to paintball. $120-450 for a halfway decent marker, $150 nitro tank, $60-120 hopper, $50 mask, $40 Pack+tubes, another $50 on stuff like cleaning tools and the like, and that's just to get started. Then you're looking at $100-200 *every* time you go play on food, air, and most especially paint at roughly $50 per box on the cheap side for decent paint, not to mention travel time and gas to the field, repairs, etc.

Agreed. I totalled up my video game purchases, including systems and gaming PC for the last 4 years, and had spent over $10k. In 4 years of playing 40k I wouldn't even spend a quarter of that.

Vaktathi wrote:a Carnifex is inflicting an average of 1 destroyed/explodes result against a rear AV10 tank and hitting on 4's with 4 attacks while a Trygon with 6 attacks is inflicting an average of 1.083 under the same circumstances, 8.3% better, with 50% more survivability. \

If you're sending your Carnifexes against AV10 tanks, you're using them wrong.

As for survivability, use better terrain. There's no reason a Carnifex should be taking as many hits as that towering Trygon is taking. TLOS works in the short, compact Carnifexes favour.

"And the greatest of them all are the Ultramarines..."

-Loki- wrote:
If you're sending your Carnifexes against AV10 tanks, you're using them wrong.

Considering that every vehicle in the game except Dreads/Kans, Defilers/Soulgrinders, Armored Sentinels, Penitent Engines, Monoliths, Land Raiders, Stormravens and Leman Russ Demolisher variants is rear AV-10 (the only value that matters in assaults) sending them against anything that *isn't* rear AV10 is by far a rare exception.

That said, against the higher AV units, it's not like the Trygon isn't still also incredibly deadly in its own right against many/most of these units

As for survivability, use better terrain. There's no reason a Carnifex should be taking as many hits as that towering Trygon is taking. TLOS works in the short, compact Carnifexes favour.

A carnifex itself isn't exactly small, they are hard to hide completely, especially if they aren't build to be compact and hidey. There's plenty of well terrained boards that would either give the same cover save to both or none to either, and the Trygon has Fleet to get into combat faster. Even assuming the Carni gets a cover save and the Trygon doesn't, against non AP3 fire it doesn't matter, and against AP3/2/1 fire it merely puts the Carnifex on statistical par with the Trygon in terms of survivability.

The Outcast created the Tyranids and became the hive mind to consume all life in some sort of crazy continuation of eating a load of the other star gods.

The Dreadknights looks cool, as do all Grey Knights.

The whole Chuck Norris meme thing is getting old.

DarkDrgon wrote:I'm not sure if this is controversial or not, but it was a big debate at my FLGS:

AoBR is a better Ork battleforce than the Ork battleforce

This is pretty obvious. The ork battleforce gets you 3 bikers, 20 boyz, and a trukk. If you are going to use the trukk, you can't load the full 12 in without having 8 left, which is illegal. So You have to load just ten, and then you have 10 footslogging, useless boyz. 3 warbikes is also equally worthless, as they have as much damage output as just three boyz, but still int 2. Also, when you total up set costs, for $22 per 10 orks, $25 for bikers, and $30 for trukk, it totals out to $104.94 with a six percent tax. For the battleforce, it's a total of $95.40. Congratz, you saved a grand total of $9.54. So much for saving money on the battleforce. The blackreach box is stupidly cost effective, because not only are you saving more than the ork battleforce, but that's just for the orks! You also save $8 for templates, $50 for a rulebook, and get some long plastic things! But wait, there's more! You also get an awesome space marines battleforce too! So You could split the cost with a friend, and save even more amounts of money, or you could trade the marines off to some player for some more orks!

loota boy wrote:

DarkDrgon wrote:I'm not sure if this is controversial or not, but it was a big debate at my FLGS:

AoBR is a better Ork battleforce than the Ork battleforce

This is pretty obvious. The ork battleforce gets you 3 bikers, 20 boyz, and a trukk. If you are going to use the trukk, you can't load the full 12 in without having 8 left, which is illegal. So You have to load just ten, and then you have 10 footslogging, useless boyz. 3 warbikes is also equally worthless, as they have as much damage output as just three boyz, but still int 2. Also, when you total up set costs, for $22 per 10 orks, $25 for bikers, and $30 for trukk, it totals out to $104.94 with a six percent tax. For the battleforce, it's a total of $95.40. Congratz, you saved a grand total of $9.54. So much for saving money on the battleforce. The blackreach box is stupidly cost effective, because not only are you saving more than the ork battleforce, but that's just for the orks! You also save $8 for templates, $50 for a rulebook, and get some long plastic things! But wait, there's more! You also get an awesome space marines battleforce too! So You could split the cost with a friend, and save even more amounts of money, or you could trade the marines off to some player for some more orks!

A Definite case of QFT

A lot of people grumbled about the AOBR figure quality, but looking on the GW Site, forums and even Google Images, You can clearly see there's nothing wrong with them,

Remember: There snap fit!
Compare them to older snap fit models and there actually REALLY good quality, downside is only that 'Unique-ing' them is a bit more work, but hey go look at the Dreadnought show off thread for example, and see what can be done with them.

Also, My biggest thumb up for AOBR is that I think the Deffkopta design is FAR superior to the one's bought from GW individually.

New "Controversial Opinion":

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with Ultramarines,

Okay lots of people paint them (and unfortunately, no disrespect to any UM players here, a lot are painted horribly, but consider how many people play UM as there first army when there young, it's going to happen).

Grumble, grumble, grumble, but they get all the glory in the SM Dex

Maybe, but the same can be said about almost all Dex's (Aside from GK, and Non-Vanilla SM Dex's, Dexes, Dexi?) The Ork Dex is All "Goff, Goff, Goff", The CSM is all "THA BLACK LEGION IS THE AWESOME!"

My personal view is that the UM can be good, and even *Gasp!* Cool (yeah I used UM and Cool in the same sentence and Im not 12) as long as there done right. Quick example:


Poorly painted, almost typical UM (Apologize to the painter, but lets be honest)


Well painted UM
(Granted this is GDemon standard, OTT, But still Cool!)

Cheers to CMON for images

/Rant

Finally, someone has spoken the absolute truth on the Ultramarines!


OK, new controversial opinion:

The Tyranid Codex is the best-written, fairest, most balanced Codex in the WHOLE GAME, and if every army had its Codex written by Robin Cruddace, the world would be a better place.

The Squats were a TERRIBLE idea and should NEVER BE MENTIONED AGAIN.


And finally...


Lost In Space was a good film.

Grey Knights aren't borken, just poorly written in both rules and fluff.

Event Horizon is 40k's prequel.

Squigsquasher wrote:Finally, someone has spoken the absolute truth on the Ultramarines!

I'm sig-ing that for future refrence!

Squigsquasher wrote:
The Squats were a TERRIBLE idea and should NEVER BE MENTIONED AGAIN.

Maybe not terrible, but 6th edition should feature the new ruling:
"If your opponent, people at your FLGS, or anyone you ever meet make reference to, or suggest a return of A certain short race, Your are entitled to deliver them a swift kick to the groin area, repeatedly."

GW has never had an original idea.
Upon induction GW staff have a small creature implanted in their ears which forces them to try and sell you models you don't need.
The Tau were created as direct result of GW's fear of pokemon.
Thats all I know.