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Snarky wrote:

Melissia wrote:Which they could have done if they had lasguns too...

True, but i'm just pointing out that lasgun > autogun is not true. It's more like lasgun = autogun in effectiveness (ruleswise too!)

.... eeeexcept that it isn't.

Because it only has a 30 shot magazine standard, and even if you use extended magazines you'd be hard pressed to match the amount of shots in a lasgun's power pack, which is in most sources about ten times the standard autogun magazine. And the lasgun's shots don't weigh anything while autogun bullets do have weight. And lasbolts are more accurate. And the lasgun itself has fewer moving parts, making it almost impossible to jam. And so on and so forth.

While it is equal in raw damage potential, the autogun is generally inferior to the lasgun in almost all other areas save for versatility (special ammo, sound and flash suppressors) and it being more primitive allows it to be made easier on primitive planets.

Lasguns can have more shots per clip, are easy to maintain, can take one hell of a beating and still work, easy to store ammo for and the power packs can be recharged from a variety of sources.

This is pretty much the reason I understood for the widespread use of Lasguns over autoguns. In the Guns of Tanith operation lasriel (not sure of the spelling) one member of each of the squads takes an urdeshi made autogun called something like a u90 cannon. The only reason they take them is because Loxal (again not sure of the spelling) are highly resiliant to Las weapons.The ammo has to be distributed across the whole squad because it is so chunky.

I also remember some fluff some where about catachan ork hunter prefering auto rifles fpr pychological reason, something to do with orks not respecting the noise lasguns made.

Fluff depeds on your source, differences can always be glossed over by its a big Galaxy. In a lot of the guard books auto guns are used, as many of you have said, by heretics and pdf. I've always assumed this a production thing, if memory recalls the guerilla units in Flesh and Iron are able to produce autoguns with relative ease.

Snarky wrote:

Melissia wrote:Which they could have done if they had lasguns too...

True, but i'm just pointing out that lasgun > autogun is not true. It's more like lasgun = autogun in effectiveness (ruleswise too!)

Historically, both were noted as being equivalent in damage aspects.

Well, the lasgun is superior that you can carry more shots within each power pack, however, the lasgun isn't more accurate. The lasgun won't have recoil allowing for better sustained fire, but the autogun is just as accurate when firing in a semi-automatic fashion. It's only when firing full auto that the recoil becomes too much to handle.

However, I expressed my point poorly, what I meant to say is that the stopping power of an autogun is pretty much the same as a lasgun, although they have different impact effects, being shot by an autogun will do just as much as being shot by a lasgun.

Snarky wrote:however, the lasgun isn't more accurate. The lasgun won't have recoil allowing for better sustained fire, but the autogun is just as accurate when firing in a semi-automatic fashion. It's only when firing full auto that the recoil becomes too much to handle.

A lasgun fires a laser and so must be more accurate. It will hit where you point it (within range), whereas an autogun round will dip and could be affected by factors such as the wind. The laser goes in a straight line, an autogun round will not.

SomeRandomEvilGuy wrote:

Snarky wrote:however, the lasgun isn't more accurate. The lasgun won't have recoil allowing for better sustained fire, but the autogun is just as accurate when firing in a semi-automatic fashion. It's only when firing full auto that the recoil becomes too much to handle.

A lasgun fires a laser and so must be more accurate. It will hit where you point it (within range), whereas an autogun round will dip and could be affected by factors such as the wind. The laser goes in a straight line, an autogun round will not.

Lasers can be affected by diffraction that can affect it's accuracy. In fact there are so many different factors that can affect a fictional weapon that involves so much physics that I don't even know why I'm continue to argue this. I'm just going on the background I read on autoguns in IA5 where it compares the lasgun to the autogun.

there is probably a difference in damage done by the 2 guns.


Lasgun can inflict horrific 3rd degree burns which can cause death from cooking internal organs and such.

Autoguns do have an advantage that wounds caused by them can bleed out and also cause Hydrostatic shock. 2 things a lasgun isn't as likely to cause. 1 because it cauterizes the wounds, and 2 because there isn't an "impact" persay, small, but most likely not enough to cause Hydrostatic shock.

Snarky wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:It depends on what enemies.

Against most unarmored mutants and heretics: they'll be overkill.

Against pretty much everything else or anything with armor: it's underkill.

Tell that to the marines and guardsmen fighting on Vraks. The renegade infantrymen were ALL armed with autoguns, and managed to inflict horrendous casualties on both the Krieg Guardsmen and the Dark Angels and Red Scorpion space marine chapters.

You're aware that the renegade infantrymen with autoguns weren't the ones "inflicting horrendous casualties" on the Dark Angels and Red Scorpions, right?

It was the heavy/special weapons teams doing that, and they were using the 'standard' Imperial heavy/special weapons.

Power Armour is strong but it's not strong enough to resist meltaguns, repeated fire from heavy bolters, etc.

Kanluwen wrote:

Snarky wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:It depends on what enemies.

Against most unarmored mutants and heretics: they'll be overkill.

Against pretty much everything else or anything with armor: it's underkill.

Tell that to the marines and guardsmen fighting on Vraks. The renegade infantrymen were ALL armed with autoguns, and managed to inflict horrendous casualties on both the Krieg Guardsmen and the Dark Angels and Red Scorpion space marine chapters.

You're aware that the renegade infantrymen with autoguns weren't the ones "inflicting horrendous casualties" on the Dark Angels and Red Scorpions, right?

It was the heavy/special weapons teams doing that, and they were using the 'standard' Imperial heavy/special weapons.

Power Armour is strong but it's not strong enough to resist meltaguns, repeated fire from heavy bolters, etc.

I may have over exaggerated my claims a bit .

I do believe that autogun armed renegades did do a number on the krieg guardsmen and also must have picked off a few space marines. The main casualties for the marines were from chaos marines on Vraks.

Of course they did a number on the Krieg Guardsmen, flak armor only protects a certain amount of the body.

I can't think of them picking off a few Astartes though. Mostly the Astartes were cutting through them before Chaos Marines got involved, except for some losses to Ogryn Berserkers.

Obviously you don't field any space marines that don't wear helmets.

Snarky wrote:Obviously you don't field any space marines that don't wear helmets.

damn right.


keep your helmet on at ALL times

Grey Templar wrote:there is probably a difference in damage done by the 2 guns.


Lasgun can inflict horrific 3rd degree burns which can cause death from cooking internal organs and such.

Autoguns do have an advantage that wounds caused by them can bleed out and also cause Hydrostatic shock. 2 things a lasgun isn't as likely to cause. 1 because it cauterizes the wounds, and 2 because there isn't an "impact" persay, small, but most likely not enough to cause Hydrostatic shock.

The effect, however, is the same.

That's why it's energy versus impact in Dark Heresy.

hence why in 40k there is no ingame difference, but in Dark Heresy there is a minor difference.

If space marine armour was completely impervious to autogun rounds then marines would never die to close combat attacks or the like... which is bunk.

There are plenty of weak spots on marine armour and repeated hits from rifles will damage and fatigue armour over time.

PA is impervious on the actual plates.


its the joints and the Eye sockets that are vulnerable.

I'll agree that major armour plates are for the most part impenetrable... but throw enough shots at the eyes, joints, power pack (hell, even shooting at the bolter itself could be viable as a disarming measure) and you will eventually find the mark.

Yes, which is accurate to the lore too.

Effectively invulnerable is not the same as actually invulnerable.

SpankHammer III wrote:[
This is pretty much the reason I understood for the widespread use of Lasguns over autoguns. In the Guns of Tanith operation lasriel (not sure of the spelling) one member of each of the squads takes an urdeshi made autogun called something like a u90 cannon. The only reason they take them is because Loxal (again not sure of the spelling) are highly resiliant to Las weapons.The ammo has to be distributed across the whole squad because it is so chunky.

.

The U90 was so they had something which could do proper platoon scale damage, it was about the size of a mon-portable HB, they had AP round for dealing with Loxtal as a Las round and Long-las rounds would bouncve of their shells laving only heads shots as an option and they could hide their heads like turtles. Tubes charges are quite effective against them as well.

Melissia wrote:

Sir Pseudonymous wrote:

wizard12 wrote:They're also used by resistance fighters and IG units on stealth mission (thats if Gaunts Ghosts are anything to go by), due to the fact autoguns can be silenced whereas lasguns can't.

A lasgun would still be quieter than a "silenced" autogun.

False.

Air suddenly raised to superheated levels is quite loud. That's what causes the thunder associated with lightning.

Las weapons quite literally CANNOT be silenced because of this. They will always be loud, they will always give away the firer's position, and so on.

The point was more that even a "silenced" gun comes out louder than a jet engine, and the effects of a suppressor only go down the higher the caliber, so a "silenced" autogun would still come out louder than a lasgun. Remember that lightning is an electrical arc in a high-resistance medium, not a beam of light, and so heats up the air significantly more than even a comparable laser would. A lasgun also likely wouldn't need a flash suppressor, seeing as how light passes through air, rather than reflecting off of it, assuming a lasgun's beam is even in the visible spectrum.

Lets not forget now with the Las vs auto that I have read in multiple novels (Eisenhorn and the last story in the Imperial Guard Omibus) that Las guns are inferor to autoguns in a sub zero setting.

A well oiled and maintained autogun can fire in sub zero/artic enviroment whilst a Las gun pack would have its energy sapped by the cold.


I believe the las gun is superior, but not in specalist circumstances such as artic war. Wonder why the Valhallan regiments use las guns... Honestly :p

Chaos Lord Gir wrote:Lets not forget now with the Las vs auto that I have read in multiple novels (Eisenhorn and the last story in the Imperial Guard Omibus) that Las guns are inferor to autoguns in a sub zero setting.
A well oiled and maintained autogun can fire in sub zero/artic enviroment whilst a Las gun pack would have its energy sapped by the cold.

Yeah...remember that the story in question has the autoguns being in an uninsulated and unheated transport for some 10+ hours.

I believe the las gun is superior, but not in specialist circumstances such as arctic war. Wonder why the Valhallan regiments use las guns... Honestly :p

Because lasguns can be modified for arctic warfare. That's been mentioned in the Gaunt's Ghosts novels before, it requires careful calibration and regulation when it's being done--but it's doable.

With the Imperial Guard, they know the circumstances they should be facing. The Munitorum can fail to come through with proper 'winterized' lasguns, but more often than not they are equipped for it.

I've basically range all Autoguns as any from of automatic weapon that still shoots ballistic projectiles made from metal or metalic materials with a 50 caliber or less

Riddick40k wrote:I've basically range all Autoguns as any from of automatic weapon that still shoots ballistic projectiles made from metal or metalic materials with a 50 caliber or less

50 cal is way too large for an auto gun. I would say maximum 40-44.

Nope, it can't just "shoot bullets".

Autoguns are distinct from stubbers in that autoguns are caseless, fully automatic affairs. Yes, they are two separate kinds of weapons.