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Vladamyr wrote:

Baron von Felixton wrote:

Hopefully, this means that the Space Marine game could be pretty good and we could be in for some more decent 40k themed games

I just want to say, THQ did the Firewarrior game.....and i was not impressed....so I do not have high expectations.

THQ = publisher

they have nothing to do with the development of the game.

Relic != whatever studio made that piece of crap that was firewarrior

I hope that MMO isn't awful, but I would also much rather have a good single player game than an MMO. Getting pretty worn out on MMOs, I don't have a ton of time to just burn any more like I did when I was in college.

Shas'o Nom Nom wrote:Man, I don't know about you all but I'm hoping for something along the lines of Fire Warrior!

Naaaaht.

I have Fire Warrior for the PS2 (go EBgames value bin ) and it sucked badly. I would love to see it remade, you know after Space Marine.

Kuju made Fire Warrior.

Melissia wrote:

skullking wrote:I really hope that dawn of war 3 is more like DoW 1

I hope not, DoW1 was incredibly underwhelming in hindsight. Sure it was good to get a warhammer game and all, its sequel was just such an insanely vast improvement on the original that there is no way I could ever go back to that crappy starcrap style RTS. DoW2, and all of its expansions, are better than any of the DoW1 games ever could hope to be...

Also looooooooooool at ouze complaining about DoW2 having a cookie cutter campaign.

Please, DoW1's campaigns were so much cookie cutter that there wasn't even any cookie to bake after it was done.

Sorry, Dawn of War 2 sucks. It's not an RTS, its like Rainbow Six in 40k. Battles with 10 space marines and a single tank isn't what I want from my 40k RTS experience. Calling that game an RTS is a disgrace to RTS, it's a squad-based third person tactical game. I have have no use for those.

daedalus-templarius wrote:

Vladamyr wrote:

Baron von Felixton wrote:

Hopefully, this means that the Space Marine game could be pretty good and we could be in for some more decent 40k themed games

I just want to say, THQ did the Firewarrior game.....and i was not impressed....so I do not have high expectations.

THQ = publisher

they have nothing to do with the development of the game.

Relic != whatever studio made that piece of crap that was firewarrior

I hope that MMO isn't awful, but I would also much rather have a good single player game than an MMO. Getting pretty worn out on MMOs, I don't have a ton of time to just burn any more like I did when I was in college.

THX also develops games.

But in this case you are right, Fire Warrior was developed by Kuju Entertainment (wich isn't owned by THQ) And god it must have been one of the worst shooters ever xD

Sorry, Dawn of War 2 sucks. It's not an RTS, its like Rainbow Six in 40k. Battles with 10 space marines and a single tank isn't what I want from my 40k RTS experience. Calling that game an RTS is a disgrace to RTS, it's a squad-based third person tactical game. I have have no use for those.

... But it's a strategy game that is played in real-time... Frankly it was much more strategic than the first one. Initially I had my doubts about the scale of DoWII, but in retrospect, DoW was a much more simple-minded game, despite (and possibly because of) the scale.

What you wanted was DoW with better graphics, like what Blizzard did with SCII. And, as SCII proved, the appeal wouldn't have held for long if they'd done that. Better graphics don't really change RTS games.

For me, DoW II redefined RTS in that it was the first pure and genuine strategy game. They cut out all the superfluous crap which had nothing to do with strategy... I guess that was the stuff you liked?

Griever wrote:
Sorry, Dawn of War 2 sucks. It's not an RTS, its like Rainbow Six in 40k. Battles with 10 space marines and a single tank isn't what I want from my 40k RTS experience. Calling that game an RTS is a disgrace to RTS, it's a squad-based third person tactical game. I have have no use for those.

Is the game in real time? Yes. Does it require strategy from an above-ground camera angle? Yes. It's by definition a real time strategy game.

Also "This doesn't fit my preconceived notion for XYZ therefore it sucks" is my favorite ignorant argument.

Melissia wrote:Also looooooooooool at ouze complaining about DoW2 having a cookie cutter campaign.

Um. I'm not even sure how to respond to this, since it's essentially saying "the world is obviously flat and that's clear to all".

Starting with Winter Assault, you could play distinctly different campaigns, all with their own unique cut scenes, missions, and voice work. If you played as Tau, you'd have a completely different game then if you played as Orks.

Specifically regarding Retribution, you literally have the exact same campaign copied and pasted 6 or whatever times, with tiny differences; greater then 90% of the content of the expansion is unchanged no matter who you play as. If you beat the game with one race, there is very little reason to bother doing it with any other, since nearly all of the content will be identical.


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Brother SRM wrote:Is the game in real time? Yes. Does it require strategy from an above-ground camera angle? Yes. It's by definition a real time strategy game.

I respectfully disagree. I also do not consider DOW2 to be a RTS. I'd consider it a Real time tactical, which is similar, but not the same, any more then a cupcake is actually a muffin. Similar, not the same.

A battlefront/battlefield style game would be perfect fro 40k i think.

Necros wrote:Hopefully a BFG space combat sim kinda game...

I just soiled myself

Griever wrote:

Sorry, Dawn of War 2 sucks. It's not an RTS, its like Rainbow Six in 40k. Battles with 10 space marines and a single tank isn't what I want from my 40k RTS experience. Calling that game an RTS is a disgrace to RTS, it's a squad-based third person tactical game. I have have no use for those.

Its an RTS, just because you don't really like its presentation doesn't make it something different. Its a skirmish 40k game, and really, by the end of the game, you can have quite a few units on the field and have very large battles, especially on 3v3.

Melissia wrote:I'd certainly like to see a WFB rpg similar to Dragon Age, Drakensang, Neverwinter Nights, etc. Or even an open ended one like TES, but I think the more linear ones would work better.

This would be delicious if it was like NWN/Dragon Age.

Eclno wrote:

Shas'o Nom Nom wrote:Man, I don't know about you all but I'm hoping for something along the lines of Fire Warrior!

Naaaaht.

I have Fire Warrior for the PS2 (go EBgames value bin ) and it sucked badly. I would love to see it remade, you know after Space Marine.

Kuju made Fire Warrior.

See I had no issues with Fire Warrior, okay is was no Half Life or Halo, but it was fun, same way as Doom was and still is fun. Regardless it made me think it was 40k enough to the point I was able to enjoy it, regardless of difficulty issues and other odd calls, I felt like I was playing a Tau, and it was great shooting those Guard and Marines.

I'd (almost) kill for a team with Bungies ability, to make a proper story based 40K shooter, it would be totally awesome.

It wouldn't be too hard either, all of the IP is already there; the stories, the history, the allegances etc

How 'bout a Battlefield: 40k? Using a number of the squad features from Battlefield 2142 along with design elements and ideas from the newer Bad Company and Call of Duty games, then throw in some Aliens vs Predator for the Tyranids...you'd have the basis for an insanely good FPS

Yes. YES! DO IT! DO IT! Those Battlefield games were awesome, I'd love one 40k-based.

Also, that Homeworld video looked pretty awesome. Haven't played a space shooter since Colony Wars back on the PS1. 40k should be able to pull out some awesome stunts using all of the different races.

You could have kind of like an Ender's Game style simulator, where you could pilot either the small fighters or the capital ships, or have certain people pilot the Capital ships and give tactical info to other players in the fighters/cruisers, maybe even be able to join the battle inside of a ship through boarding pods/torpedoes(it's boarding "something" I just can't think of it, might be torpedoes).

And the larger ships have more access to larger weapons and intelligence gathering like scanners/distance/damage sensors/communication jamming/psychic powers/shields/armor etc.

Seriously, why hasn't somebody made an Ender's Game simulator like that, or is it out there and I just haven't seen it yet?

Necros wrote:Hopefully a BFG space combat sim kinda game...

That would be killer.....BFG would be so sweet

On the one paw its good that a good developer is kept like that.

But on the other paw...the exclusivity of it; and the kinda unfairness that DoW takes race-wise; means I'll never really see a proper Inquisition game (or inclusion in a game)...Bleh.

lol, no. DoW2 is so much better than DoW1 that it takes DoW1's lunch money and then sleeps with its wife, leading DoW1 to develop a complex.

daedalus-templarius wrote:THQ = publisher

they have nothing to do with the development of the game.

False. Publishers have a lot of sway over the developers they finance. They don't just throw money away without having control.

Melissia wrote:lol, no. DoW2 is so much better than DoW1 that it takes DoW1's lunch money and then sleeps with its wife, leading DoW1 to develop a complex.

Well, that's your opinion, and everyone's entitled to their own, no matter how laughably wrong it is.

Ouze wrote:

Melissia wrote:lol, no. DoW2 is so much better than DoW1 that it takes DoW1's lunch money and then sleeps with its wife, leading DoW1 to develop a complex.

Well, that's your opinion, and everyone's entitled to their own, no matter how laughably wrong it is.

Don't be so hard on yourself Ouze.

The second half of DoW1 was entirely cookie cutter. It was DEFINED by it. DC and SS were so cookie cutter it wasn't even a real single player campaign, it was just a bunch of skirmish battles punctuated by a few harder fortress battles. The first half, vanilla and WA, had a few epic quotes but was otherwise par for the course for an RTS game. Relic's story telling abilities have improved since then, and DoW2, especially Dark Crusade and Retribution, are far better as far as pacing and story goes.

The gameplay of DoW1 and its expansions was basically starcraft with capture points and squads, which was an improvement over typical RTS tripe to be sure (capture points are better than resource harvesting for a fast paced RTS game, and squads are better than lots of single units for making infantry useful) but it's still inferior to DoW2's gameplay in basically every way. The squad AI of the first series was hilariously bad, utterly laughable to watch, and its balance was hardly any better. Its only saving grace were mods, but none fo them fixed the core issues with the game.

I stand firmly by it. Relic is making the DoW series better by moving away from starcrap style gameplay to its own style.

Melissia wrote:I stand firmly by it. Relic is making the DoW series better by moving away from starcrap style gameplay to its own style.

A perhaps less biased way of saying it might be they went from being a real-time strategy game to being a real-time tactical game. Certainly, thats a fair choice, and one which clearly has it's adherents, and I'll RTT if I like the source material, but I tend to prefer RTS. I would agree, though, that RTT allows for a more faithful interpretation of tabletop 40k as a video game.

Putting that aside, my real concern is less with the genre shift from RTS to RTT, and the increasingly downward slide in quality as DoW2 has progressed into it's expansions.

What downward shift? Maybe it's just my relief at not having to use GFWL and me not giving two gaks about being able to play chaos marines, but I find Retribution to be far higher quality than any of the DoW expansions, for both games.

Melissia wrote:The squad AI of the first series was hilariously bad, utterly laughable to watch

O Rly? I guess you played a different version of Retribution then I did. In the version I played, my close combat specialists, no matter which faction - Warboss with PK, Commander with PF, Chaos Lord with Lightning Claws; all seem to follow the exact same script as far as melee combat goes: Within less then an inch, do a melee attack, from 1 inch to 2 inches, stand there doing absolutely nothing, and from 2 inches to max shooting range, fire ineffectually with a pistol. I played Co-Op with a friend a few times, and he remarked several times how frequently his squad would chose to do either nothing, or something other then what he had them do. No tweaking of the settings in the bottom right seemed to adjust this. Give a guy a slow weapon, like a lascannon; and he'd occasionally fire it, and occasionally decide he'd rather stay off into space.

Saying something is "cookie cutter" and definining that as in which you do a string of missions linked together; that definition means every game every released, ever, is cookie cutter. The missions you did in the previous games generally had different goals, or objectives, or whatever. In Retribution, it was the exact same campaign slightly tweaked for each faction. Same lazy voicework, same mission: slog slog slog through the map, get to the end, kill a boss. How innovative. The only 2 different missions were the one with the teleporting Eldar council (which was more "annoying" then "fun", and of course, the one with the countdown. Specifically, the exterminatus mission....

On each walkthrough, where you need to escape the exterminatus? I played with SM, Chaos, and Orks. Not once did I escape the exterminatus despite getting there with 30 seconds on the clock on the first attempt. Just walked around like crazy around the evac point while the clock counted down, then did it again. Took 2 tries for Chaos and SM (where I did nothing different to succeed) and 3 times for Orks, before I realized I have lots of other, less broken games I could be playing. Or, god help me, actually painting my mountain of grey plastic.

While this isn't new to Retribution, and not the biggest problem I had, the voicework was bad, at best. The absolute worst was the mission, an early one, on Space Marines, where the baneblade was chasing you? And your captain kept saying the same damn thing, over and over again, in the same stupid slow voice? It's the baaaaaaaannnnneeeblllladddeeee!! Yes, I get it, thanks. Shut up.

Ouze wrote:O Rly? I guess you played a different version of Retribution then I did. In the version I played, my close combat specialists, no matter which faction - Warboss with PK, Commander with PF, Chaos Lord with Lightning Claws; all seen to follow the exact same script as far as melee combat goes: Within less then an inch, do a melee attack, from 1 inch to 2 inches, stand there doing absolutely nothing, and from 2 inches to max shooting range, fire ineffectually with a pistol.

Try issuing attack move orders more often if you want them in melee.

If you think that's bad, though, you apparently played a different version of... EVERY DoW1 game than I played. Frequently ranged weapon users in a squad would have the front weapon in range and then the rest of them sit out of range picking their nose in their little perfect squares. It was nonsensical to watch.

I have experienced none of the bugs you described in my gameplay-- the ONLY bug I experienced was in receiving upgrades after using one of the unit upgrade wargears (IE, get the next sentinel upgrade, etc), which mostly happened on the Eldar campaign... and they fixed that as it didn't happen in my recent playthrough.

I would like a game along the lines of the Total War games.


Turn based economic overlay and real time Space and Land battles,

although such a game would probably take the highest end graphics card and processor to run.

Total War was a pretty good set of games.


I personally liked Warhammer: Battle March as I was able to see(underline that) my skaven actually talk, see how they run, just everything about it. Unfortunately I couldn't see the vampire counts, tomb kings, lizardmen or ogres, but still.

(skinny)
It is just magical to see them as living and moving beings than static miniatures.

bluedestiny wrote:Would asking for a Mech Warrior / Heavy Gear style game based on Titan Legions be too much??? Damn I want some good Mech shoot em up games, they don't exist anymore.

I reaaaaaaaally want armored core five to have a release date. Should be coming out in English this year.

But it wouldn't work for 40k. Titans are too slow and un-customizable and would get very boring after an hour or two.

i don't know.

Customization would be in the form of weapon swaps, changing Titan class and specification(individual titans are unique individuals)

Enemy troops would of course be slaughtered in massive numbers, but they could drag you down.


Bosses in the form of other Super heavy vehicles and monsters.


Eventually, you might even command the mighty power of an Emperor Titan.

I love Dawn of War 1, but it's very dated now. It was new at the time, as most RTS games were still straight up Command and Conquer/Warcraft clones. To eliminate resource gathering, have units with both shooting AND melee, squads instead of single models and morale was a big thing. I think DoW2 is as innovative now as DoW1 was innovative when it came out close to 7 years ago.

I'd be happy if they just fixed that thing about bolters being sub-machineguns.

Those guys obviously never played chaos gate.

Almarine wrote:I'd be happy if they just fixed that thing about bolters being sub-machineguns.

Those guys obviously never played chaos gate.

The old footage of Space Marine; back when it was pretty much just a leaked pitch video got out, was full on submachinegunning. It was embarrassing. Dawn of War II is the only game that's really gotten bolters right in my opinion. It's not that fast-firing in Space Marine though.