News about changes to GW's product release marketing - New Info added 21/5/2011!

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**SlaveToDorkness**

Well of course we do...it's a guy who knows a guy who went to the big managers muckymuck and heard things.

Duh.

**Buzzsaw**

DeathGod wrote:
The Decapitator wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:Can someone please pass the salt? I'm all out here.

Just this year they have really upped the ante on cranking out releases and I have gotten e-mails about all of them.

This is bull.

Did you read the original post??

Unless Kirby and the GW bigwigs thought it highly amusing to announce said changes to their Managers who in turn were to inform it to their staff, then this is definitely not bull.

Believe what you want, but this ISN'T just some rumour from a random bloke who overheard something in Bugmans Bar.

This was ANNOUNCED in the GW annual National Managers Meeting.

I don't know about you, but I tend to hold this in pretty high regard.

Says you. Who's the source? Why should you be considered reliable? Why should your source be considered reliable?

I worked at a company a few years back where one of the employess (unknownst to us) was badmouthing our workmanship and quality. Surprise surprise, said employee started his own business a few months after his disinformation campaign.

Now I'm not saying, or implying, that you have any ulterior motives or reasons to lie. Whaty I am saying is that you provide a rumor with absolutely ZERO corroboration or support or evidence. You're telling us that some guy told you that some guys told him this thing that will end the world as we know it. I'm shaking.

Did you know that President Obama is going to be impeached because he was actually born in Nigeria? Yep. I read it on the internet.

Not to be persnickety, but what exactly would you consider "corroboration or support or evidence" for an oral presentation?

One of the managers to confirm this? Kirby to confirm it?

A Youtube of the managers' meeting?

Confirmation? Given that this entire forum is anonymous, how would someone confirm this that you would believe it?

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that you seem to be setting an awful high bar given the nature of, well, pretty much everything on Dakka...

**bolo**

Very Bruce Lee of them. "The best marketing strategy is no marketing strategy, the best advertising is no advertising".

**Griever**

BrassScorpion wrote:If people don't think there's cross-marketing between GW and their licensed products that is both intentional and incidental that I would say is fallacious. Highly fallacious. Sure, no one has ever bought a GW product for the first time after reading a Black Library book or playing a licensed video game, boardgame or RPG. And of course, vice versa. Highly plausible. Yeah.

That's it for me. Unsubscribe. As previously stated, you can't argue with "true believers".

Selling us a product you make isn't advertising. Does it have a similar effect? Sure. But just because I played Dawn of War doesn't mean I'll purchase a talos. Especially not if I only hear about it a week before the damn thing releases.

Go cry somewhere else.

**H.B.M.C.**

bolo wrote:Very Bruce Lee of them. "The best marketing strategy is no marketing strategy, the best advertising is no advertising".

It’s how they think of themselves already. Consider the fact that the “Games Workshop Hobby” has no competition because there are no other companies within the “Games Workshop Hobby” besides Games Workshop.

Of course the truth is far more realistic – GW are in competition with every other miniature game within the hobby, even if they consider themselves to be separate, apart and perhaps even above such things.

**Kingsley**

I'm reserving judgment on this until I hear more, but this doesn't sound like a good change to me.

**DeathGod**

Buzzsaw wrote:
Not to be persnickety, but what exactly would you consider "corroboration or support or evidence" for an oral presentation?

One of the managers to confirm this? Kirby to confirm it?

A Youtube of the managers' meeting?

Confirmation? Given that this entire forum is anonymous, how would someone confirm this that you would believe it?

I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that you seem to be setting an awful high bar given the nature of, well, pretty much everything on Dakka...

I don't need the information, I don't care all that much. I'll still have my Space Wolves tropming all over the table I built in Kinghammer's garage regardless. I'm just commenting on the validity of the rumor at the heart of this thread. As far as I see it, there isn't any.

But to answer your question. A second source, the first source's name, sure, a video or transcript or minutes from the meeting. Any sort of corroboration. Lacking that, this is just some thing some dude said on the internet, and should be treated as such. Instead, it's like Moses came down from the mountaintop with a post on his laptop from God.

**spireland**

HAHa.....GW has to be trolling the fanbase with this one.

**bolo**

spireland wrote:GW has to be trolling the fanbase with this one.

They already did that when they stopped Maelstrom sales into Australia. They might as well put a "umad bro?" on their site.

**mazik765**

Worglock wrote:
BrassScorpion wrote:
That's not GW. That's Relic Games, a independent studio that advertises games made under the GW IP.

The only GW advertising I have ever seen is a poster in a couple local shops and the White Dwarf that I have to pay for to get anyway. Essentially you are saying I would be paying for their advertisements twice.

How much do I have to break this down for some of the people here to be able to understand it? When a licensed Warhammer product is advertised, that IS ADVERTISING for GW as well. It is a way of advertising while getting paid rather than spending money. D'uh. Seriously, d'uh. Especially since I know I'm going to see these same ridiculous comments again within a day or a week. And my favorite ridiculous forum logic, when someone thinks if they've never seen something then it doesn't exist. There's a Ripping Yarns episode where the main characters parents insist Burma doesn't exist. Michael Palin talks in the commentary about how when people believe something that strongly no amount of evidence put before them will make a difference. The Internet is just like that. Evidence and facts don't matter.

I'd posit that the people seeing GW advertising through the video game liscensing aren't ever going to play with the toy soldiers (except for the ones that did previously.) There's been several people that have come into the GW store I go to looking for the video game and are generally "lolwut?" when it's pointe out to them that the Toy Soldiers came first.

I'm just such a player that started with the Dawn of War games before moving to the hobby. So we do exist!

**Kroothawk**

Kirasu wrote:GW shows all the symptoms of a paranoid schizophrenic

I think this sums it up best.
GW is finally fed up with free market, freedom of speech and democratic structures.
They now fully adopted the North Korean model and probably move their bureau and facilities there. Kim Kirby is declared Eternal President.

People talk about boycotting GW? Fine, now GW decided to boycott the customers.

Please, dear shareholders: Save your money and save this company by getting rid of this obvious madness ruining GW at accelerating speed.
Free the creative staff from their chains and gags! Free Jes and Phil (take Mat if you want

)! Before it's too late!

**Capt. Rex**

Wise Guy Sam wrote:Thats okay, as any Australian I can't afford their stuff anyway...

^^Pure 100% truth^^

**The Decapitator**

BrassScorpion wrote:
we all know full well that GW doesn't DO advertising.
I constantly see what appears to be criticism of GW for "not advertising". Do people realize that advertising costs money? And that the cost of that advertising is passed along to consumers?

Have you ever purchased anything that was a no-name product and found that it was just as good or nearly as good as something just like it with a name brand that had a significantly higher cost? Ever wonder why your name brand sneakers are criminally over-priced? Part of that reason is advertising, a big part of it. How much does Nike spend on network TV, major newspapers, magazines, the Internet, etc. to advertise? More than all the people on this forum will see put together in a lifetime.

So if you think GW product is expensive now, keep wishing for them to do traditional advertising on TV, in magazines, etc. and be happy you did when the cost gets passed along to you.

GW still sells more toys than most of their direct competition, you know, the other companies that advertise while GW "doesn't advertise". Gee, maybe they are doing something correctly, like I don't know, advertising maybe?

Which takes me to my next point of course. Another angle on this topic would be that GW DOES ADVERTISE. Their computer game licensing, adverts for free miniatures in gaming magazines like PC Gamer that accompany video game ads, years ago they took out ads in the City Paper, are all cases of GW ADVERTISING. Product reviews for both their tabletop games and licensed products also provide advertising. So do their licensed products like boardgames, RPG books, etc. Just because they are not paying millions of dollars on network TV doesn't mean they don't advertise. Advertising takes many forms. So do unfounded accusations and criticisms. Criticism is fine, if it's constructive and backed up by facts. Facts are good. Uninformed complaints are bad.

Thanks for this, I agree with you 100%.

It wasn't actually a complaint at all, although I can see how it looks/reads like one.

Think of it as more of a knee jerk reaction for which I apologise

What I meant to say, as you so eloquently put it is that they do advertise, just not in the traditional sense.

**Kroothawk**

BrassScorpion wrote:
we all know full well that GW doesn't DO advertising.
I constantly see what appears to be criticism of GW for "not advertising". Do people realize that advertising costs money? And that the cost of that advertising is passed along to consumers?

1.) When did GW have the biggest growth in new customers? When MB did a really big TV advertising campaign for Heroquest and when DeAgostini made a really big TV advertising campaign for the LOTR magazine including GW sprues. That's it. A long history of decline when sales depended on GW's own marketing. And GW is still living of the veterans from those times, an advantage the other companies don't have. GW does no advertising. Everyone else does. Sometimes GW involuntarily profits from that.
2.) Tabletop gaming is a hobby almost unknown outside of UK. It needs to advertise to get known as an alternative to PC and console games. Esp. in countries with few GW stores. It needs introductory products like Space Hulk or Warhammer Quest sold in Toyz'R'Us, reasonably priced of course. It then needs a marketing strategy with reasonably priced introductory products for 40k and Fantasy, while currently GW raises the hurdle by 10-25% every year! What they currently do is anti-marketing, the perfect strategy to reduce sales.
3.) The cost of advertising (and changing the material from resin to gold) is already included.

**The Decapitator**

DeathGod wrote:
The Decapitator wrote:
SlaveToDorkness wrote:Can someone please pass the salt? I'm all out here.

Just this year they have really upped the ante on cranking out releases and I have gotten e-mails about all of them.

This is bull.

Did you read the original post??

Unless Kirby and the GW bigwigs thought it highly amusing to announce said changes to their Managers who in turn were to inform it to their staff, then this is definitely not bull.

Believe what you want, but this ISN'T just some rumour from a random bloke who overheard something in Bugmans Bar.

This was ANNOUNCED in the GW annual National Managers Meeting.

I don't know about you, but I tend to hold this in pretty high regard.

Says you. Who's the source? Why should you be considered reliable? Why should your source be considered reliable?

I worked at a company a few years back where one of the employess (unknownst to us) was badmouthing our workmanship and quality. Surprise surprise, said employee started his own business a few months after his disinformation campaign.

Now I'm not saying, or implying, that you have any ulterior motives or reasons to lie. Whaty I am saying is that you provide a rumor with absolutely ZERO corroboration or support or evidence. You're telling us that some guy told you that some guys told him this thing that will end the world as we know it. I'm shaking.

Did you know that President Obama is going to be impeached because he was actually born in Nigeria? Yep. I read it on the internet.

I'm not going to reveal my sources name, or what he does as he would very likely lose his job. I'm not going to reveal my name or what I do for similar reasons. I am reasonably new to this forum in comparison to some others, however, if you look back at the last couple of months I have provided news before anyone else which has proved to be 100% correct. I provided information and dates for the 2 DE releases next month and was laughed at by people like you trying to tell me that I didn't know anything, and why should you believe me? Come to think of it I'm pretty sure the only way you would believe anything is if you could go forward in time and see it yourself! Now unfortunately the nature of this website and it's "News & Rumours" section is that definitive proof can be hard to come by initially, and word of mouth is all we have. So whilst I understand your position of not believing what I say, there's no need to be such a dick about it. I would love to provide you with a YouTube video, buy do you seriously think GW film it's meetings?? Minutes? You've never been to a GW meeting before I take it?

I'm sure you have trusted news and information providers? They had to start somewhere didn't they?

Right now, this is all there is. As soon as I find out something I can post to back it up I will. If anyone else does before me then please feel free to back me up too. I'm pretty sure that the majority of news threads on here start with little or no information and grow as time passes, so I actually think that my post has started with a hell of a lot of credence, it's just that some people out there need it tattooed to their eyeballs before they'll even consider the possibility.

**Void_walker**

BrassScorpion wrote:
we all know full well that GW doesn't DO advertising.
I constantly see what appears to be criticism of GW for "not advertising". Do people realize that advertising costs money? And that the cost of that advertising is passed along to consumers?

So, what is GW's excuse then? I can bet my left nut that the price hikes isn't due to advertising.

I'm guessing that their market strategy is if you show it at the last minute, people will rush in and buy it.

**Lorna**

Fairly said.
And whilst people might not think it's true, it's the only information we have got.

Honestly, I think that it is probably true.

**NAVARRO**

The posts about advertising mostly show people are not aware of the costs and the advantages... Besides its not a question of money its a question of distributing resources better and planning a optimized model

I ask you this... what will give GW more money?... White dwarf or outsource professional advertising?...
what would give more exposure? one store or a worldwide publicitary campaign?

Sorry fellas but discarding a professional campaign because its way to expensive is NOT a very accurate argument and detached from the truth.

**Lorna**

It's very true. BVut you would be advertising to a large amount of people who have very little interet in the hobby. The overall costs versus the gfain from it would be low.

**daemon**

I wish GW had the marketing prowess of apple. As much as i hate apple.

**NAVARRO**

Lorna wrote:It's very true. BVut you would be advertising to a large amount of people who have very little interet in the hobby. The overall costs versus the gfain from it would be low.

I mentioned "professional" advertising and the first thing a pro will ask is... whats the target? and from there he will create a campaign aiming that and sometimes even goes a little further... your assuming here that by default a competent campaign would be deprived of competence mate

**Lorna**

I missed the pro bit. Sorry. But where would you advertise? WD? Oh, and sidenote. Love your 'nids.

**Grimtuff**

H.B.M.C. wrote:Second time I've been vindicated in the space of a day. This one feels good though, because it's been something I've been railing against for a while.

I love it when GW apologists and fanboys try to explain away and make excuses for GW’s rampant and utterly unnecessary secrecy. This just makes their feeble prattling all the sweeter.

Why isn’t there an “I told you so!” Orkmoticon?

Time for a lynching of Wade Pryce then methinks?

**iproxtaco**

GW is not trying to expand the hobby. At all.

**Swordwind**

iproxtaco wrote:GW is not trying to expand the hobby. At all.

That would mean lowering prices and acknowledging the community and the internet.

**iproxtaco**

Swordwind wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:GW is not trying to expand the hobby. At all.

That would mean lowering prices and acknowledging the community and the internet.

Unlikely huh?

They need to take a gamble. The company is not going to survive like this, not in it's current form. GW need to advertise more. They NEED to expand their customer base. The veterans and wee kiddies are not going to keep them floating forever. Some say that advertising costs money, most people should understand that already. Does that mean that GW shouldn't? I'm fairly certain that someone out there can help them with their marketing strategy. With their current concumer base supporting them just now, they have to try while they still have those people. There should be nothing bad that can come from a larger scale advertising campaign.

**Korraz**

daemon wrote:I wish GW had the marketing prowess of apple. As much as i hate apple.

Can't you see it? GW IS Apple. Without Jobs. And without Jobs, Apple can't survive. Which means, you guessed it, GW sinks, slowly.

Anyway, usually I'd say "There's now way this could be true."
I said that about the shipping ban too.

**Kirasu**

Monopolies are bad m'kay (Not on the entire hobby industry of course, just the game youve been playing for 15 years)

**Cerebrium**

That's the funny part. GW don't have a monopoly! Almost everyone I've spoke to about this (including myself) are at least considering leaving for a competitor product (PP, Mantic et al).

Damn Kirasu, you edited your post as I was writing mine!

**Kirasu**

Yeah thats what I do to mix people up