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Huh the other forums I go to are adamant in their though that Blood Ravens are indeed loyal 1k sons. Interesting to see such opposition. I dont know much about either. Only thing I remember is something in one of the HH books about a raven of blood

odmiller wrote:Agreed, I was going to ask the same thing. GW saying Relic controls what happens to these guys without our input or guidance would be great to read.

Can't link it because it was a WD article. Want to say around 2006, right after Dark Crusade.

Wow this went wayy longer than i expected.
Too tired since got off work to read all three pages, but went over the first one and must say I can see why traitor marines wouldnt have their geneseed used.

I guess my main question is really is there any chapter, or any situation which could allow to have a chapter of almost all psykers? That isn't GK, i wnat to use GK for a custom or unknown chapter (that isn't blood ravens, im tired of painting red) so that means i need to find a fluff reason for the fact that basically ever marine (save for the warrior scouts with meltaguns ) are psykers.. I was thinkiing of using TS geneseed if it wasn't shot down so fast, but i can see now why it would casue too many fluff probs.

any ideas?

Kanluwen wrote:

odmiller wrote:Agreed, I was going to ask the same thing. GW saying Relic controls what happens to these guys without our input or guidance would be great to read.

Can't link it because it was a WD article. Want to say around 2006, right after Dark Crusade.

Great. I'll look it up and have a read. Thanks.


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No luck finding the article. I went about a year each direction from the Dark Crusade relelase (Oct 2006).

Since it is such a cornerstone of the argument, (i.e. Relic decides what happens with the Blood Ravens, and therefore GW have no plan for them), I'd love to read it. Let me know if you are able to dig it up.

Kanluwen, just jumping in to see if you were able to find that article you keep referring to? The one where GW says they don't have a say in the Blood Ravens, it's Relic's chapter? I've combed through my White Dwarfs, and can't seem to find it.

I guess this thread can come back to life after the Battle of the Fang starts to get read. It's written by the same writer who wrote Rebirth. It'll be interesting if there are anymore hints in there. It's supposed to have quite a bit about the Thousand Sons and their evolution.

odmiller wrote:Kanluwen, just jumping in to see if you were able to find that article you keep referring to? The one where GW says they don't have a say in the Blood Ravens, it's Relic's chapter? I've combed through my White Dwarfs, and can't seem to find it.

Nope. But I'm sure you can ask the devs at Relic about this thing.

And really, I wasn't looking for that article. Because I know what I've read and don't have ready access to my White Dwarfs at the moment. There's also entirely the likelihood that it was an online interview from a PC gaming site or any number of things.

I guess this thread can come back to life after the Battle of the Fang starts to get read. It's written by the same writer who wrote Rebirth. It'll be interesting if there are anymore hints in there. It's supposed to have quite a bit about the Thousand Sons and their evolution.

Then why the hell would it talk about the Blood Ravens?

I know it has a lot of SW talk but nothing on Blood Ravens AFAIK...

purplefood wrote:I know it has a lot of SW talk but nothing on Blood Ravens AFAIK...

A book about the battle for the Space Wolves Chapter Keep has a lot of talk about Space Wolves?

INSANITY!

Kanluwen wrote:

purplefood wrote:I know it has a lot of SW talk but nothing on Blood Ravens AFAIK...

A book about the battle for the Space Wolves Chapter Keep has a lot of talk about Space Wolves?

INSANITY!

I know right.

purplefood wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

purplefood wrote:I know it has a lot of SW talk but nothing on Blood Ravens AFAIK...

A book about the battle for the Space Wolves Chapter Keep has a lot of talk about Space Wolves?

INSANITY!

I know right.

really I thought it was about furries.

Kanluwen wrote:

odmiller wrote:Kanluwen, just jumping in to see if you were able to find that article you keep referring to? The one where GW says they don't have a say in the Blood Ravens, it's Relic's chapter? I've combed through my White Dwarfs, and can't seem to find it.

Nope. But I'm sure you can ask the devs at Relic about this thing.

And really, I wasn't looking for that article. Because I know what I've read and don't have ready access to my White Dwarfs at the moment. There's also entirely the likelihood that it was an online interview from a PC gaming site or any number of things.

I guess this thread can come back to life after the Battle of the Fang starts to get read. It's written by the same writer who wrote Rebirth. It'll be interesting if there are anymore hints in there. It's supposed to have quite a bit about the Thousand Sons and their evolution.

Then why the hell would it talk about the Blood Ravens?

Ahh I see. So when a poster mentions that in his direct experience GW kept complete control over their IP, you can challenge him to prove his credentials, and tell him he's wrong because you read in White Dwarf that GW gave Relic complete autonomy.

And now that's changed to - I read it somewhere, go find it for yourself. I see.

And then the "why the hell...." Uh, I don't know. Because the recently released story the same author wrote about the T sons gives enough potential hints about a tie to fill up 6 pages over two threads. And his current White Dwarf article promises more detail on them. And you've just been extremely involved in pages of discussion about those very hints and their significance or lack there of. Why the hell do you think?

But nevermind, I understand you can act like a smug, condescending expert. Citing "evidence" you then decide you don't want to produce, telling people to prove what they do, and pretending reasonable points are so outlandish that you cannot even understand why they're brought up.

Got to love internet authorities.

reds8n wrote: It wouldn't be impossible.

If you have a look at the first article that GW did on the 21st Cursed Founding it was strongly hinted that at least some of the chapters founded then might have been based upon traitor geneseed. This was backed up somewhat by some of the rules -- the Sons Antaeus were renowned for their almost supernatural resilience..and followed similar rules to Plague Marines. The Minotaurs were an angry, assault/hand to hand orientated chapter,'berserker-like' IIRC, ..and who followed similar rules to the World Eaters. And some of the other abilities seemed quite themed towards the other chaos powers.

Which makes no sense given that those powers didn't manifest until after the legions turned to Chaos.
As for the Thousand Sons, we're talking about a group that appears to be named around the concept of the 1000 man chapter before the idea of the legions was thought of. The name was too well known to drop later on so they just ignored the fact that the name makes no sense for a legion sized organization. At least the fluff is starting to be drawn together, albeit shakily.

odmiller wrote:

Kanluwen wrote:

odmiller wrote:Kanluwen, just jumping in to see if you were able to find that article you keep referring to? The one where GW says they don't have a say in the Blood Ravens, it's Relic's chapter? I've combed through my White Dwarfs, and can't seem to find it.

Nope. But I'm sure you can ask the devs at Relic about this thing.

And really, I wasn't looking for that article. Because I know what I've read and don't have ready access to my White Dwarfs at the moment. There's also entirely the likelihood that it was an online interview from a PC gaming site or any number of things.

I guess this thread can come back to life after the Battle of the Fang starts to get read. It's written by the same writer who wrote Rebirth. It'll be interesting if there are anymore hints in there. It's supposed to have quite a bit about the Thousand Sons and their evolution.

Then why the hell would it talk about the Blood Ravens?

Ahh I see. So when a poster mentions that in his direct experience GW kept complete control over their IP, you can challenge him to prove his credentials, and tell him he's wrong because you read in White Dwarf that GW gave Relic complete autonomy.

I challenged him to prove his credentials because literally anyone can say "I used to work on this game that got canceled and GW really doesn't behave like you're saying they do".
Everything that has been stated by Relic and THQ has been that GW has been as accepting and helpful as possible. And that's after the company has gone from being the 'Good Old Days' to what it is now.

And now that's changed to - I read it somewhere, go find it for yourself. I see.

No. I'm saying go find it for yourself because expecting anyone to remember exactly where they saw an interview almost 3-4 years ago is ridiculous.

And then the "why the hell...." Uh, I don't know. Because the recently released story the same author wrote about the T sons gives enough potential hints about a tie to fill up 6 pages over two threads. And his current White Dwarf article promises more detail on them. And you've just been extremely involved in pages of discussion about those very hints and their significance or lack there of.

Yes, because clearly it's expected that he's going to go off of a stupid throwaway line in a short story and drop as many hints as possible in his book focused on the Space Wolves/Thousand Sons rivalry.

Citing "evidence" you then decide you don't want to produce

I never once said I "don't want to produce the evidence". I said I don't remember where it came from. There's a difference between the two, just like there's a difference between "I worked for this company during a canceled project and I don't want to post my real name on the Internet"(which isn't even really needed for the 'credentials'. Something as simple as the name of GW's licensing director for the timeframe is more than enough credentials, since it's something most people would have no fething clue about) and "I don't care if you don't believe me or not, but here's this piece of information that contradicts everything stated by every licensee from the timeframe".

telling people to prove what they do,

When someone claims to be a professional working on a project and then says that they "don't want to post their real name on the Internet"--it brings up a few warning bells to me.

and pretending reasonable points are so outlandish that you cannot even understand why they're brought up.

That's not a "reasonable point". The Blood Ravens tie has nothing to do with the Battle of the Fang. That's why I can't understand why anyone would bring that up, Odmiller.

That's like me asking if "Cadian Blood" has more information on the Mordians.


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I should add that I'm really not trying to be confrontational about this. If it's coming across as such, it's not meant to be.

You know what, you're right. I might very well have over reacted in the first place.

My point with Battle for the Fang is that it's just as relevant on the surface as a Horus Heresy battle between the same two Chapters. If you believe, which I do, that the hints in A Thousand Sons and Rebirth are pointing to the Blood Ravens, then there's obviously potential for similar hints.

If you believe they are just throw away lines with no meaning at all, then I get your point.

I won't dispute that there's likely a meaning--but it doesn't exactly have to have the meaning that it insists upon.

The whole point of 'Warp Prophecies' is that they're almost always given to humanity by some kind of warp entity that has ideas for tomfoolery and shenanigans.

To give an example, which would be funnier if you were a daemon trapped in the Warp: telling a human psyker that "The Thousand Sons are going to be used to found a Chapter at some point, where the Chapter Master " and having that prophecy logged by the Imperium to stir up crap against the Blood Ravens--who in reality were founded using the Ultramarines or Imperial Fists' geneseed?

One thing I find interesting in these threads about the Blood Ravens being Thousand Sons successor chapter is that many people claim that GW has no say over what happens with the Blood Ravens.

While I do agree that it is Relic that has the majority of the control it is likely that there is an approval process for the background.

I think now more then ever GW has control over what is happening in their universe and trying to have continuity between all of it.

There's an approval process, but Relic controls and creates the background of the Blood Ravens through their games. Anything they make obviously is read and then approved by someone at GW, probably a Development team member. GW does not however control the Blood Ravens fluff directly.

Right, but there is no way that anything that they don't like will ever see the light of day for fluff. GW has final say in how thier products are used and the background given to chapters that are created by licensees. People talk as if the have given relic absolute control when it is fast from the case. It is unlikely that they will ever do more then hint at what could be especially because the BR are many peoples first introduction into the 40k universe. They are a lure, parole play the games then they start to wonder if there is more info out there about them that takes away the mystery but then they are meet with a large amount info they don't know and are either pushed away or pulled deeper in.

odmiller wrote:Finally, we know that at least one Sgt from the fleet blamed Magnus for their destruction

He's not wrong.

Although considering how foolishly arrogant many of them were, it was only a matter of time.

As far as a non-red Psyk heavy splinter chapter...The Legion of the Damned maybe?

"The Legion is not a part of any Imperial force, and employs an unusual modus operandi. Apart from driving them insane, the Warp contagion also heightens the Legionaries' psychic awareness considerably."

DAT NECRO

... some serious threadromancy here.