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iproxtaco wrote:Simply because the Concept is GW certified cannon. Having not yet read Legion, I'm not going to go and from my own opinion of it, but don't presume what I think.
This theory has literally no evidence to back it up.
You haven't read Legion? So you don't know of the huge, canon changing events that happen during that book?
Black Library has shown a trend (ESPECIALLY in Legion) of challenging our perceived notions of what actually happened during the heresy that I think it is naive and a little ignorant to say that Malcador emphatically CANNOT be the actual Emperor. Also, they have hinted that the end has some serious changes to perceived history as well.
But really, this is a fun "what if" thread, there's no need to get all hostile over what is in fact, a fictional history about toy soldiers.
Several due to careless spoilers actually. Most of them to be honest, it's the relationship between Alpharius and Omegon that I have little knowledge of.
I can say he cannot for the same reasons some people say he can, it's their opinion. When posting a wild theory, at least provide some evidence from which the Theory was formed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Muhr wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:Well, considering they've appeared in the same place, kinda puts an even bigger hole in the already un-based conspiracy theories.
No. The guy that told me his theory said that there was Malcador who was the real Emperor and the 'real' Emperor was kind of like Primarch zero who was the mouthpiece of the whole show.
Furthermore, the guy who told me this DID NOT claim it to be an absolute truth but merely explored it as an interesting possibility which was the same reason I posted it here. It wasn't intended to ruffle any feathers but to hopefully generate a stimulating debate on a theory that I thought was as interesting as it was fringe.
Well, the guy I was replying to actually said they were the same person. Appearing in the same place at this same time puts a MASSIVE hole in that form of the theory.
Yeah, go and make a theory, there are several that I have seen that are fairly convincing, this has had very little actual evidence to support it provided.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/06 16:20:21
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
no one is denying that there was a Malcador and a Emperor that could appear in the same place at the same time.
What I am saying is that the Emperor, being the most powerful psyker in history(even more powerful then any Eldar could be) could have controlled 2 bodies at once.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Yeah, could, but that's just what you believe. There are many wild conspiracy theories which could be backed up by "The Emperor was a crazy powerful Psyker", it's unfortunately not hard evidence.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/06 16:31:55
iproxtaco wrote:Simply because the Concept is GW certified cannon. Having not yet read Legion, I'm not going to go and from my own opinion of it, but don't presume what I think.
This theory has literally no evidence to back it up.
You haven't read Legion? So you don't know of the huge, canon changing events that happen during that book?
Black Library has shown a trend (ESPECIALLY in Legion) of challenging our perceived notions of what actually happened during the heresy that I think it is naive and a little ignorant to say that Malcador emphatically CANNOT be the actual Emperor. Also, they have hinted that the end has some serious changes to perceived history as well.
But really, this is a fun "what if" thread, there's no need to get all hostile over what is in fact, a fictional history about toy soldiers.
Several due to careless spoilers actually. Most of them to be honest, it's the relationship between Alpharius and Omegon that I have little knowledge of.
I can say he cannot for the same reasons some people say he can, it's their opinion. When posting a wild theory, at least provide some evidence from which the Theory was formed.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Muhr wrote:
iproxtaco wrote:Well, considering they've appeared in the same place, kinda puts an even bigger hole in the already un-based conspiracy theories.
No. The guy that told me his theory said that there was Malcador who was the real Emperor and the 'real' Emperor was kind of like Primarch zero who was the mouthpiece of the whole show.
Furthermore, the guy who told me this DID NOT claim it to be an absolute truth but merely explored it as an interesting possibility which was the same reason I posted it here. It wasn't intended to ruffle any feathers but to hopefully generate a stimulating debate on a theory that I thought was as interesting as it was fringe.
Well, the guy I was replying to actually said they were the same person. Appearing in the same place at this same time puts a MASSIVE hole in that form of the theory.
Yeah, go and make a theory, there are several that I have seen that are fairly convincing, this has had very little actual evidence to support it provided.
Of course your opinion counts just as much as anyone else's it's just that you are the only one who is expressing yourself in a belligerent way and it isn't necessary. To be fair, I never claimed this to be anything other than a 'wild theory', it's just that I thought it was an interesting one that was food for thought. The fact that you are haughtily demanding proof tells me that your'e missing the point of the whole discussion. The whole point of a theory is that it isn't proven. People in this thread have simply been floating a few concepts that have caught their interest and fueled debate.
So relax, the 40k universe, as you know it, is safe.
For now...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/06 16:43:29
"How many people here have telekenetic powers raise my hand" - The Emperor, The council of Nikae
"Never raise your hand to your children, it leaves your midsection unprotected" - The Emperor
"My father had a profound influence on me, he was a lunatic" - Kharn
Meh, when people go and make theories I want to know what made them form it. A few other people have expressed the opinion of believing it could be true, some even that they came about it from another person or made it themselves. Maybe you can't tell me where your friend got it from, fair enough, but others can. Currently, the only piece of proof expressed is "The Emperor was a powerful Psyker", which I have already dismissed as it's just a blanket statement with no real credibility to back this theory up. Maybe I did come across as haughty, I don't really see it but again, meh.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/06/06 16:51:25
Malcador fits the modus operandi the Emperor had followed for thousands of years before M31.
The Emperor as a ruler is an exception to his behaviour not the norm.
If this is the case, it would be natural for the 'Emperor' to work from the shadows and use a 'kagemusha' (shadow warrior) in place as his figurehead.
Think about this: Malcador behaves more like the 'Emperor' than the 'Emperor'. The Emperor is made of a collection of souls, and was once a large collection of Shamans, not one person.
While the soul could be 'split' between the two, their minds would still be different as they are discrete biological entities. Malcador is the 'original' body (remember the Emperor is said not to stand out in history), the 'Emperor' is his 'super-man' body and figurehead. They have different minds but the soul and aims are the same, because they're still a person.
Remember, the Emperor is a soul; he merely has a body. Is it odd that he could have two, considering (a) his biomancy and (b) it happened with one of his creations?
Meh, still not buying it. More likely, Malcador was just a powerful psyker who also bought into the Emperor's divinity. To address the title of the thread, he can't be "the REAL" Emperor, since he's long dead while the Emperor still sits on the throne.
Now, it is possible, however unlikely, that Malcador was a facet the Emperor created to be his mouthpiece, but that begs the following question: who cares? It doesn't change any of the events that occurred, Malcador is still dead, and the Emperor is still a twisted half-corpse.
The Emperor didn't exist prior to that though, he wasn't this parasite thing residing inside the bodies of Shamans. They made a conscious decision to create The Emperor through joining their souls in The Warp, there's really no other information than that, so you can't give any proof for your theory. In addition, if they were in two bodies, what purpose did Malcador fulfill? If The Emperor is the souls not the bodies, why are there two? The only possible explanation is that Malcador was the human face to the God. Still no evidence to suggest any of these theories.
Because two bodies is useful, as demonstrated by having both the Emperor and Malcador. If both were one person, things physically impossible for one body are made doable or even trivial.
Having two minds can help too, as the mind of a leader wouldn't necessarily be the best to be the same as the mind of a scientist for example.
Concerning the Shamans, I mention them as, yes, the entity of the 'Emperor' didn't exist before then but then again the 'Emperor' is no more than the sum of those parts.
We also know (written directly) about the pre-imperium Emperor:
He didn't look special or stand out - the golden armour 10' tall Emperor doesn't fit this, Malcador does
He preferred to work in the shadows, guiding rather than ruling upfront - the golden armour 10' tall Emperor doesn't fit this, Malcador does
Other things: Malcador is very old and in the know about human history, knowing much about even the pre-space flight age (he has the Mona Lisa doesn't he?).
I'm not saying it is the case; we will never know until they publish a book on it.
But it does explain how the Emperor's modus operandi changed suddenly at around M30.
Grey Templar wrote:Zeus [...] didn't have a major impact on human history
Aside from being the most important deity of a very important, history-changing Mediterranean culture?
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
Muhr wrote:I heard a theory today that nearly made me choke on my chicken sandwich and would like to know if it is an established theory or just a stroke of genius by the guy I heard it from.
He said that Malcador was the actual Big E and that the 'Emperor' was 'Primarch Zero'. When I asked him of what made him think this he came out with things like Malcador always been present when the 'Emperor' is or, at the very least, not far away and that he was the only one that could operate the Astronomicom (to a degree anyway) apart from the big E.
I'm sure that the dude said a few other things as well but my brain was recoiling from the 'Ring Of Truth' at the time to take it in. I was wondering if anyone else had heard of this theory and that if they had could they discuss it further in this thread?
Ta Much!
My first thought when I read this is ''WTF!?''
Just like your dp.
Personally, I do not think it has enough canon supporting it to even be a conspiracy theory. A rumor, yes, but only to chaos worshipping non-believers that want to spread lies about the God-Emperor.
Currently, Lasher is the only one to have put forward any sort of cohesive argument, that isn't "The Emperor is a super good Psyker, ok?", or that hasn't been dis-proved. Correct me if I'm wrong and you have.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Daba wrote:Because two bodies is useful, as demonstrated by having both the Emperor and Malcador. If both were one person, things physically impossible for one body are made doable or even trivial.
Like what things? So far, we've only ever seen Malcador in the pressence of, or close to, The Emperor.
Having two minds can help too, as the mind of a leader wouldn't necessarily be the best to be the same as the mind of a scientist for example.
But The Emperor is The Emperor, I don't see what other perspective Malcador could give.
We also know (written directly) about the pre-imperium Emperor:
He didn't look special or stand out - the golden armour 10' tall Emperor doesn't fit this, Malcador does
He preferred to work in the shadows, guiding rather than ruling upfront - the golden armour 10' tall Emperor doesn't fit this, Malcador does
As said, The Emperor could appear in whatever form he wanted, or is suspected of being like that. At least this is kind of a hint. I agree that before The Unification Wars, The Emperor was unknown, but is known to have guided humanity. I would have thought that it would have to be The Emperor to establish himself as such an awe-inspiring (at the time) figure, like Jesus.
Other things: Malcador is very old and in the know about human history, knowing much about even the pre-space flight age (he has the Mona Lisa doesn't he?).
How does he demonstrate this though? Many people were in the know about it. Where does it say he has The Mona Lisa? I'm not denying but I would like a source.
I'm not saying it is the case; we will never know until they publish a book on it.
But it does explain how the Emperor's modus operandi changed suddenly at around M30.
Of course, but it's nice at least to discuss. I don't think he massively changed, just saw an opportunity when The Warp calmed.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2011/06/09 17:17:47
The audiobook, The Lightning Tower, has Malcador talking to Rogal Dorn and they mention a painting of a woman with a "curious smile" which clearly refers to the Mona Lisa.
Actually, it's that audiobook that really started me down the same path as the OP.
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings. Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.
Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.
This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.
Ozymandias wrote:The audiobook, The Lightning Tower, has Malcador talking to Rogal Dorn and they mention a painting of a woman with a "curious smile" which clearly refers to the Mona Lisa.
Actually, it's that audiobook that really started me down the same path as the OP.
Lexi says that Malcador collects art pieces and his most prized possesion is the Mona Lisa, this painting could have survived the years before the Emperor and his crusades, given that mankind was at their best during the DAoT. IMO, I still do not subscribe to Malcador being the Real Emperor.
chaos0xomega wrote:I've floated this theory myself multiple times. cadbren has a good counterpoint to that theory, however he does not take into account what I call the "alpharius effect", I.E. - one soul split across two bodies. I am of the opinion that Malcador was the real emperor, and the emperor was the real emperor, because they were the same soul/spirit, but two vessels were required to store it. There is a part of a certain Horus Heresy book, I want to say it was A Thousand Sons (or perhaps it was Nemesis), where one of the characters remarks that it seemed that Malcador and the Emperor shared the same thoughts, as in they literally shared the same thoughts, and that Malcador seemed to be the mouthpiece, with the Emperor only speaking when Malcadors word was not heeded by the others in the room.
I do see credit to this theory. However, without solid evidence (Ie. Fluff/canonical support) I choose not to read too much into the HH conspiracy theories.
Grey Templar wrote:other then the strong connection the Emperor had with Malcador.
When Malcador was removed from the golden throne and the Emperor was placed on it, Malcador died. at that very instant, the Emperor regained conciousness.
if Malcador contained a portion of the Emperor, then that would make sense.
Is this from any quotable fluff? I have never heard or read of these "facts"
MikZor wrote:
We can't help that american D&D is pretty much daily life for us (Aussies)
Walking to shops, "i'll take a short cut through this bush", random encounter! Lizard with no legs.....
I kid Since i avoid bushlands that is But we're not that bad... are we?
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
AvatarForm wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:I've floated this theory myself multiple times. cadbren has a good counterpoint to that theory, however he does not take into account what I call the "alpharius effect", I.E. - one soul split across two bodies. I am of the opinion that Malcador was the real emperor, and the emperor was the real emperor, because they were the same soul/spirit, but two vessels were required to store it. There is a part of a certain Horus Heresy book, I want to say it was A Thousand Sons (or perhaps it was Nemesis), where one of the characters remarks that it seemed that Malcador and the Emperor shared the same thoughts, as in they literally shared the same thoughts, and that Malcador seemed to be the mouthpiece, with the Emperor only speaking when Malcadors word was not heeded by the others in the room.
I do see credit to this theory. However, without solid evidence (Ie. Fluff/canonical support) I choose not to read too much into the HH conspiracy theories.
Grey Templar wrote:other then the strong connection the Emperor had with Malcador.
When Malcador was removed from the golden throne and the Emperor was placed on it, Malcador died. at that very instant, the Emperor regained conciousness.
if Malcador contained a portion of the Emperor, then that would make sense.
Is this from any quotable fluff? I have never heard or read of these "facts"
I think its in the GK codex, but i am not positive. and i am too lazy to walk outside to my car to get it
tomorrow.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
chaos0xomega wrote:I've floated this theory myself multiple times. cadbren has a good counterpoint to that theory, however he does not take into account what I call the "alpharius effect", I.E. - one soul split across two bodies. I am of the opinion that Malcador was the real emperor, and the emperor was the real emperor, because they were the same soul/spirit, but two vessels were required to store it. There is a part of a certain Horus Heresy book, I want to say it was A Thousand Sons (or perhaps it was Nemesis), where one of the characters remarks that it seemed that Malcador and the Emperor shared the same thoughts, as in they literally shared the same thoughts, and that Malcador seemed to be the mouthpiece, with the Emperor only speaking when Malcadors word was not heeded by the others in the room.
I do see credit to this theory. However, without solid evidence (Ie. Fluff/canonical support) I choose not to read too much into the HH conspiracy theories.
Grey Templar wrote:other then the strong connection the Emperor had with Malcador.
When Malcador was removed from the golden throne and the Emperor was placed on it, Malcador died. at that very instant, the Emperor regained conciousness.
if Malcador contained a portion of the Emperor, then that would make sense.
Is this from any quotable fluff? I have never heard or read of these "facts"
I think its in the GK codex, but i am not positive. and i am too lazy to walk outside to my car to get it
tomorrow.
As in the GK Codex written by Mat Ward?
As in the abomination that spawned Kaldor Draigo?
MikZor wrote:
We can't help that american D&D is pretty much daily life for us (Aussies)
Walking to shops, "i'll take a short cut through this bush", random encounter! Lizard with no legs.....
I kid Since i avoid bushlands that is But we're not that bad... are we?
It preceded the Grey Knights codex. I believe it was originally from the Collected Visions Horus Heresy book (the one with all the artwork from the HH card game).
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings. Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.
Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.
This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
thats right,
and it actually isn't in the GK codex(just checked)
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
The quote is from "horus heresy volume IV: visions of death" page forty-nine.
Its a bit out of context tough.
Spoiler:
...they went to the goldne Throne, where Malcador sat tortured and wasted. Plumes of energy lashed about the shrivelled body of the former sigilite, arcs of power scythed across the cables and conduits of the great machine to which he was bound. Malcador was all but dead, only the slimmest vestige of life still lingering within him, only the supremest effort of will stopped him relinquishing it.
"How can such a device save the Emperor? It will more likely finish him. It is madness to bind him to it. This cannot be the thing to do!"
(the Khan exclaimed).
"The Emperors word is law. his order is to bind him once more to the machine that is his Throne of Gold. We know not the full mysteries of this faboulous artefact, built as it was by the Emperors own hand. We must trust him as we have ever trusted him and bind him to it, forthwith!" (Dorn insisted)
The waiting Techpriests were directed to make the exchange. Malcadors husk was carefully disengaged from the complexities of the machine and the Emperor ascended to his goldne Throne once again, this time for eternity. As Malcador was removed the last flicker of life left him. He died and the dust of his corpse was blewn across the stone floor.
At the instant of Malcadors death the Emperor awakened, as if somehow he had been boosted with a powerful salve or medicine. The Emperor, still frail and weak , spoke: "poor brave Malcador the hero. He reserved a fragment of his strength for me. It gives me a little time to pass final orders to you all. If you do as I ask then I shall not wholly die, my spirit at least will survive. My injuries are severe, more so than I had hoped but less then I had feared. My psychic powers will return to me in time, but my body will never heal. I shall never walk amongst you again. I am now bound to this machine for all time. My faithful bodyguards and attendants know what is required. You must do as they request!"
Nothing suggests a relation other than psychic powers in this paragraph, and storing power there for the next one to sit on isn't unbelievable .
A better quote to show the relations of those 2 persons:
Horus heresy: visions of darkness: page eighty-eight.
Spoiler:
the astronomican crisis
The astronomican had been constructed to focus the Emperors fathomless psychic powers into a psychic navigational beam that lanced through the otherworldly dimension known as the warp.
.....
And the astronomican was failing!...
Malcador the sigilite requested an audience with the Emperor. In the dark bowels of the Palace Vaults they met.
"Why do you disturb my labours, sigilite? Outside of these dungeons I have given you powers of regent. I trust your judgements in all things. I do not have time for any more disturbances. What peril is there that you cannot deal with yourself?"
" Forgive me , my Lord, but the astronomican is failing. Is it your desire that now we should let its light be extinguished? Are your plans so far progresssed that I need not to worry about so calamitous an event like this?"
"No, you are right to worry. It is too soon, far to soon. the light must be kept burning until I complete the project.
..........
It goes on to explain how the psykers are spent to keep the beam constant, still the Emperor is needed to modulate and focus the energy. but what I really see as important there is: The Emperor wasn't available for Malcador "all the time" and didn't know every plan.
Unlikely to have a "real" emperor that is less informed....
Certainly, Malcadors grave is at Titan, whilst his Emperor is bound to the Throne for eternity.
Target locked,ready to fire
In dedicatio imperatum ultra articulo mortis.
H.B.M.C :
We were wrong. It's not the 40k End Times. It's the Trademarkening.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
well, then that pretty much puts that to rest.
still, i can see where people would get the idea that they were one and the same in 2 bodies.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
1hadhq wrote:The quote is from "horus heresy volume IV: visions of death" page forty-nine.
Its a bit out of context tough.
Spoiler:
...they went to the goldne Throne, where Malcador sat tortured and wasted. Plumes of energy lashed about the shrivelled body of the former sigilite, arcs of power scythed across the cables and conduits of the great machine to which he was bound. Malcador was all but dead, only the slimmest vestige of life still lingering within him, only the supremest effort of will stopped him relinquishing it.
"How can such a device save the Emperor? It will more likely finish him. It is madness to bind him to it. This cannot be the thing to do!"
(the Khan exclaimed).
"The Emperors word is law. his order is to bind him once more to the machine that is his Throne of Gold. We know not the full mysteries of this faboulous artefact, built as it was by the Emperors own hand. We must trust him as we have ever trusted him and bind him to it, forthwith!" (Dorn insisted)
The waiting Techpriests were directed to make the exchange. Malcadors husk was carefully disengaged from the complexities of the machine and the Emperor ascended to his goldne Throne once again, this time for eternity. As Malcador was removed the last flicker of life left him. He died and the dust of his corpse was blewn across the stone floor.
At the instant of Malcadors death the Emperor awakened, as if somehow he had been boosted with a powerful salve or medicine. The Emperor, still frail and weak , spoke: "poor brave Malcador the hero. He reserved a fragment of his strength for me. It gives me a little time to pass final orders to you all. If you do as I ask then I shall not wholly die, my spirit at least will survive. My injuries are severe, more so than I had hoped but less then I had feared. My psychic powers will return to me in time, but my body will never heal. I shall never walk amongst you again. I am now bound to this machine for all time. My faithful bodyguards and attendants know what is required. You must do as they request!"
Nothing suggests a relation other than psychic powers in this paragraph, and storing power there for the next one to sit on isn't unbelievable .
A better quote to show the relations of those 2 persons:
Horus heresy: visions of darkness: page eighty-eight.
Spoiler:
the astronomican crisis
The astronomican had been constructed to focus the Emperors fathomless psychic powers into a psychic navigational beam that lanced through the otherworldly dimension known as the warp.
.....
And the astronomican was failing!...
Malcador the sigilite requested an audience with the Emperor. In the dark bowels of the Palace Vaults they met.
"Why do you disturb my labours, sigilite? Outside of these dungeons I have given you powers of regent. I trust your judgements in all things. I do not have time for any more disturbances. What peril is there that you cannot deal with yourself?"
" Forgive me , my Lord, but the astronomican is failing. Is it your desire that now we should let its light be extinguished? Are your plans so far progresssed that I need not to worry about so calamitous an event like this?"
"No, you are right to worry. It is too soon, far to soon. the light must be kept burning until I complete the project.
..........
It goes on to explain how the psykers are spent to keep the beam constant, still the Emperor is needed to modulate and focus the energy. but what I really see as important there is: The Emperor wasn't available for Malcador "all the time" and didn't know every plan.
Unlikely to have a "real" emperor that is less informed....
Certainly, Malcadors grave is at Titan, whilst his Emperor is bound to the Throne for eternity.
Thank you.
However, I believe the intent was that Malcador gifted the Emp with his final energies somehow and you may all be reading too far into this.
MikZor wrote:
We can't help that american D&D is pretty much daily life for us (Aussies)
Walking to shops, "i'll take a short cut through this bush", random encounter! Lizard with no legs.....
I kid Since i avoid bushlands that is But we're not that bad... are we?
That's exactly what he did, and the only one reading far too much into it is the original poster. Malcador was a powerful psyker, the Emperor utilized him when he needed a human touch (the Emperor himself being far removed from anything we would remotely describe as human), and His loyal servant gave the Emperor his last kernel of strength upon his death so the Imperium could persist.
Grey Templar wrote:well, then that pretty much puts that to rest.
still, i can see where people would get the idea that they were one and the same in 2 bodies.
Not really... The Horus Heresy BL stuff hasn't hesitated to deviate away from the "history" in the collected visions books. And Malcador dying and the Emperor waking up could be the split person being reincorporated and gaining back in power.
So it could still be a possibility...
My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings. Look on My works, Ye Mighty, and despair.
Chris Gohlinghorst wrote:Holy Space Marine on a Stick.
This conversation has even begun to boggle my internet-hardened mind.
Fluff for the Fluff God! 
